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braves



Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 2309
Location: Puerto Rico (but living in Texas)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:07 am Reply with quote
Tascar wrote:
Correct me if I am mistaken. But I simply don't understand the point of upscaling SD anime or any other content for that matter just to put out a Blu-Ray version. Samurai Champloo, for example, seems to have been made in SD and if there is not a better-than-SD source to work from, what is the point of "altering" the show?


I think that it's mostly to get rid of MPEG-2 artifacts that are common on DVDs and to get lossless audio (which is ideal for a show like Champloo). If you look at old FUNi DVDs, they look awful. A new encode on Blu-ray with substantially less artifacts popping up along with lossless audio is what it's all about, IMO. But using DNR to eliminate detail in the video should not be part of the equation.

I'm glad that the Blu-ray question got asked, so that they'll get forwarded to the people in charge. I'm hoping that this problem gets fixed in time for FLCL's release.
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NJ_



Joined: 31 Oct 2009
Posts: 3010
Location: Wallington, NJ
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:14 am Reply with quote
Mario1234567 wrote:
Wow man just wow. To the guy that called me a B**** (*Points Finger*) your a Douechbag. How are you gonna loud somebody out over loud speaker like that I never ask any questions and when I do it actually gets an answer and I get attacked by the ass reading the question...... Just know I'd punch you if I could cause that was NOT cool you rude bastard.... And Damn Right No Dub no sale Dammit...

Aw, butthurt cause he said the truth about you? Laughing

Quote:
Anyway I am glad One Piece is doing good Toei needs to get on a good TV Deal. You hear that Ichigo, Luffy is gonna soon kick your ass.
^
(Bleach is good but doesn't come close to One Piece)

Fixed!

Quote:
FUNimation should Co Produce an Anime based off the 3 Godfather Movies. That would kick the SOOOOO!!!! MUCH ASS!!!!

You're kidding right? The first two would be good but the third? Really?
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einhorn303



Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 1180
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:30 am Reply with quote
Tascar wrote:
Correct me if I am mistaken. But I simply don't understand the point of upscaling SD anime or any other content for that matter just to put out a Blu-Ray version. Samurai Champloo, for example, seems to have been made in SD and if there is not a better-than-SD source to work from, what is the point of "altering" the show?

I guess it just stuns me that Funimation talks about wanting to push Blu-Ray and HD and yet we keep seeing these upscale double-dips which deceive less informed customers into thinking that they are buying something different than what they could get themselves by putting their DVD into an upscaling DVD player or a PS3. In the meantime releases like the Evangelion movie(s) that genuinely benefit from HD resolution, releases that actually warrant Blu-Ray and whose quality could really sell customers on the merits of Blu-Ray, are few and far between. I understand that it takes awhile for genuine HD anime content to trickle down into the U.S. market. I just don't understand why companies are undercutting Blu-Ray by putting out Blu-Rays of questionable HD merit.


To question: Like you said, uninformed customers are still willing to buy pointless or inferior releases. And there are many uniformed customers out there. Funimation is in business to make profits, not put out a quality release; that's how capitalism works. And Funimation has demonstrated in multiple ways that they're willing to forego building the long-term health of their market for short-term benefit: just look at the bad precedents they've set by releasing cheap boxsets way too early, and pricing their shows so low that it devalues anime for everyone.

braves wrote:


I think that it's mostly to get rid of MPEG-2 artifacts that are common on DVDs and to get lossless audio (which is ideal for a show like Champloo).


But they don't include lossless audio of the Japanese track (which is, as some would say, "the one that matters").
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doctordoom85



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 2093
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:37 am Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
captainbanana wrote:
Oh, and please include the original dub on the discs. I realize that it may not be possible due to licensing, but it'll be a shame if the nostalgic dub is gone.


Nostalgia nothing, it's an excellent dub by all rights.


Indeed. And there's no need to worry, FUNi already confirmed on Twitter that the DVDs will have the original dub.
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mglittlerobin



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 1071
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:43 am Reply with quote
Doesn't surprise me that they'd keep the original dub, they kept it with Slayers and why would they redub something that already sounded good?

I also thought the marketing thing with Funimation was neat, looking forward to Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood later this year, that's gonna be a BIG hit dubbed, even more than the subbed.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:38 pm Reply with quote
Mario1234567 wrote:

Wow man just wow. To the guy that called me a [censored]. How are you gonna loud somebody out over loud speaker like that I never ask any questions and when I do it actually gets an answer and I get attacked [censored]...... [censored] that was NOT cool [censored].... And Damn Right No Dub no sale Dammit...


Mario, nobody called you any names at all.

I made an off-handed comment that "your favorite thing to do was to bitch about no dubs". Which you do, all the time on these forums, and we've had to ban you a couple of times for doing it too much. The comment was intended to be lighthearted, but it is very much true. You were not "attacked".

Not only that but you have sent in several questions to the podcast before and they have generally all been answered.
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GWOtaku



Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 678
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:42 pm Reply with quote
You know what, I've seen the comparison between Champloo on DVD and Blu-Ray. This collage was actually presented by someone as an argument against Blu-Ray, but for me it's exactly the opposite. Colors are more distinct, the picture appears to be more clear, and the supposed loss of detail seems minimal when it isn't nonexistent. If this is indicative of what happens for an upscaled release from Funi, I'm not seeing the problem. I'm open to persuasion on this, but so far the noise about Blu-Ray at least appears to be just that....
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Richard J.



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:39 pm Reply with quote
asimpson2006 wrote:
About Big Windup I had an interesting until I heard that spoiler[a bunch of episodes are spent on just one game.] When I heard that I lost all interest in it as a series.
You are missing a very fun series for no good reason. Trust me.

Sucks to hear that Big Windup flopped. It's the only baseball story I've ever watched that actually got me interested in the game itself. Great to know that Spice and Wolf is doing well. I love it. Good to know One Piece is fine.

Heh, I love the Strike Witches question. I'm buying 3 copies. Yes, there is an audience for a fun series like this. I'm one of that audience. (Just deal with it already.) Very much hoping the dub will live up to my expectations.

I am pleased to hear that they are not big on sub-only. Very not liking that trend but it means I'll be able to just save my money. (I guess not spending money on anime would be fine. Confused ) I'd really hate to see them start putting out sub-only.

Blu-Ray is a big "whatever" to me, I'll pick up something sooner or later but I'm just not pushing old ladies into traffic to get every Blu-Ray. It's just not a big deal to me. Sad that the Japanese mess them up on this for those who are so in love with Blu-Ray.

Glad to hear they are increasing coverage for their channel. Good to do more simulcasts.

Looking so forward to seeing how the co-production deals go. To me, it seems like a total win-win for everyone involved, assuming they pick the right franchise to work with.
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asimpson2006



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3151
Location: USA
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:46 pm Reply with quote
Richard J. wrote:
You are missing a very fun series for no good reason. Trust me.


I will take your word for it. If I want to see spoiler[a single event that should occur over at least 1 to 2 episodes get done over 7 or more episodes ] I will watch DragonBall Z instead. I may check it out in the future, but it will most likely be rent only.


Richard J. wrote:

Blu-Ray is a big "whatever" to me, I'll pick up something sooner or later but I'm just not pushing old ladies into traffic to get every Blu-Ray. It's just not a big deal to me. Sad that the Japanese mess them up on this for those who are so in love with Blu-Ray.


I will probably get into Blu ray when I have to which is going to be a long while before I do so. I'll stick with DVD's since I don't have a blu ray player nor the money to obtain one.
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chrisc1978



Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 363
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:51 pm Reply with quote
Zac: your Mario response was classic. but I hate subs to.
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ChocoBar



Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 164
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm Reply with quote
Mario1234567 wrote:
Namco Bandai Needs to give us One Piece Unlimited Cruise Dammit >_>....


Uh, Unlimited Adventure bombed bro, before you're saying what THEY should do, you should buck and tell people to buy it spoiler[ The game is crap anyways ]
Mario1234567 wrote:

Anyway I am glad One Piece is doing good Toei needs to get on a good TV Deal. You hear that Naruto, Luffy is gonna soon kick your ass.
^
(Naruto is good but doesn't come close to One Piece)

1.) Don't hold your breath
2.) Don't start like last time
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ChocoBar



Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 164
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:57 pm Reply with quote
ChocoBar wrote:
Mario1234567 wrote:
Namco Bandai Needs to give us One Piece Unlimited Cruise Dammit >_>....


Uh, Unlimited Adventure bombed bro, before you're saying what THEY should do, you should buck and tell people to buy it spoiler[ The game is crap anyways ]
Mario1234567 wrote:

Anyway I am glad One Piece is doing good Toei needs to get on a good TV Deal. You hear that Naruto, Luffy is gonna soon kick your ass.
^
(Naruto is good but doesn't come close to One Piece)

1.) Don't hold your breath
2.) Don't start like last time

walw6pK4Alo wrote:
Cromartie and Gintama have a lot in common. There might be a lot of puns, but that is by no means the only form of humor there. You just gotta watch it slowly. You might get the point where you do watch a good deal of episodes a day. I did about 50 in three weeks once.

As for the budget episodes, they poke fun of that a lot. Tons of episodes where a good 5 minutes are a single shot with with the characters complaining about stuff. The best was an entire episode of one long shot of an oden stand worker serving the people their food as they complained about their lives. Probably one of the few anime comedies to actually employ comedic timing and sarcasm. Fanservice happens too, as does manservice, S&M, bondage gear, other fetishes. The show is amazingly raunchy despite its timeslot and demographic. That's why it works at so many levels. The best thing is when it wants to have a serious fighting arc, it does so, better than Bleach or Naruto ever could.

As much as I like Gintama in ALOT of ways, you're full of crap if you believe this
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 2707
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:13 pm Reply with quote
silver_deeds wrote:
I thought Big Wind-Up was doing so well... what are people waiting for??


The economy to improve?
I know I've really scaled back my buying. Much as I'd like some series, I wait as long as possible to see if there will be a single set instead of these half-sets. I only buy the half-sets on stuff I really want (One Piece, Sgt Frog, Ouran, Ghost Hunt). I've been eyeing Red Garden, Tokyo Majin, & Welcome to the NHK for awhile, waiting, waiting, waiting...just a bit lower on the price...

silver_deeds wrote:
It's such a shame that every time a company tries to license something like this it just doesn't sell. Anime cry


I know. It does hurt that the economy is so horrid, some titles are likely doing worse than if they were licensed in better times when fans might have more cash to throw on an iffy (to their tastes) title. Right now it's pretty much buy what one has a reason to buy (seen it, read the manga, etc) I do see a few people talk of spurging when they have extra cash, but it's far more rare than it was a couple yrs back.
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hissatsu01



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 963
Location: NYC
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:17 pm Reply with quote
GWOtaku wrote:
You know what, I've seen the comparison between Champloo on DVD and Blu-Ray. This collage was actually presented by someone as an argument against Blu-Ray, but for me it's exactly the opposite. Colors are more distinct, the picture appears to be more clear, and the supposed loss of detail seems minimal when it isn't nonexistent. If this is indicative of what happens for an upscaled release from Funi, I'm not seeing the problem. I'm open to persuasion on this, but so far the noise about Blu-Ray at least appears to be just that....


The colors are more "distinct" as you put it because noise reduction and edge has enhancement has removed all the grain present in the original and sharpened the edges around objects. Look at the 4th photo in your link. The tree on the right is reduced to featureless blobs in the blu-ray screenshot. A similar loss of detail is visible in the houses to the left and the tiles above the gate at the bottom. Detail has been blurred away along with all the grain. The loss of detail from the noise reduction is present in the other screenshots, but most obvious in the 4th. Releasing a blu-ray that has less detail than the DVD is not acceptable and certainly not living up to the expectations of the format.

As for the grain, it was placed there intentionally. Samurai Champloo was animated digitally; there is no such thing as grain in an entirely digital production unless it is added intentionally. None of this DNR/EE nonsense is necessary, and people that aren't bothered by noise reduction and edge enhancement generally wouldn't notice anything if they weren't present, and they can get a very similar effect by turning on noise reduction options on their TV or Blu-ray player. Meanwhile people who do know what DNR and EE are generally can't stand it, and there's no way to undo it. I canceled my pre-order for Champloo as soon as I saw the screenshots, and was too late to cancel my order for Basilisk. It's the same as Champloo. I will not be buying a single future Funimation Blu-ray without seeing reviews first. What's especially galling is that many of Funi's older DVD releases look terrible; the Blu-ray re-releases were the first opportunity to buy a genuinely good looking version and they squandered the opportunity.


Last edited by hissatsu01 on Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ChocoBar



Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 164
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:19 pm Reply with quote
CCSYueh wrote:
silver_deeds wrote:
I thought Big Wind-Up was doing so well... what are people waiting for??


The economy to improve?
I know I've really scaled back my buying. Much as I'd like some series, I wait as long as possible to see if there will be a single set instead of these half-sets. I only buy the half-sets on stuff I really want (One Piece, Sgt Frog, Ouran, Ghost Hunt). I've been eyeing Red Garden, Tokyo Majin, & Welcome to the NHK for awhile, waiting, waiting, waiting...just a bit lower on the price...

silver_deeds wrote:
It's such a shame that every time a company tries to license something like this it just doesn't sell. Anime cry


I know. It does hurt that the economy is so horrid, some titles are likely doing worse than if they were licensed in better times when fans might have more cash to throw on an iffy (to their tastes) title. Right now it's pretty much buy what one has a reason to buy (seen it, read the manga, etc) I do see a few people talk of spurging when they have extra cash, but it's far more rare than it was a couple yrs back.

Please don't bring the economy into question please, anime acquisition has never been a factor of the economy and never will be nor has sales been effected. People just didn't like Big Windup or did didn't appeal to the masses FUNI believe
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