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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 5505
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:01 am Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
I mock him because he's a jerk. Again, a very widespread opinion at ANN.


I currently can't think of an accurate English expression to convey this, so I'm leaving you with my native "tú no cantas mal las rancheras" and wish you luck looking it up.

TitanXL wrote:
I just simply know there's plenty who are happy with things just like there's people who aren't.


Yes, just like there were slaves who were OK with being slaves. Nobody thought of them or their owners when slavery was abolished! Madness!
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PrettyKitty$$$$$



Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 119
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:38 am Reply with quote
CrowLia wrote:
TitanXL wrote:
I just simply know there's plenty who are happy with things just like there's people who aren't.


Yes, just like there were slaves who were OK with being slaves. Nobody thought of them or their owners when slavery was abolished! Madness!


Yep. Women can be disgustingly sexist too. My Mother in Law is convinced that anything a man does is the fault of a woman and that women shouldn't be allowed to serve in the military.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23771
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:14 am Reply with quote
CrowLia wrote:
Blood- wrote:
I mock him because he's a jerk. Again, a very widespread opinion at ANN.


I currently can't think of an accurate English expression to convey this, so I'm leaving you with my native "tú no cantas mal las rancheras" and wish you luck looking it up.


This is an English language site. If you aren't competent enough to render something into English you should probably shut the hell up.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:14 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:


Well not Klepek obviously. Everyone knows his stance. I'm referring to other people on the site, guests, and even the community. A recent example being a funny live-stream they did when the topic came up and one of the women on it laughed at the talk of the whole sexism thing and told people to get over it and hated how stories are focusing so much on it lately rather than "video games" which is why they got into the industry in the first place and not some social justice campaign. She was nicely level-headed without falling into that "you're either with me or against me" mentality a lot of other people like to say. I have to wonder how Patrick felt when he heard that. The comments were nice as well and a lot of people voiced their own views and such that they normally don't get to say because they tend to be silence and berated.


I saw that stream and the idea was, simply, that they were exhausted with the topic. Not that sexism isn't incredibly prevalent in games and the games industry - at no point did they handwave that away or "laugh off" the entire idea of it - but they were completely sick of hearing about it, which is something I think a lot of games journalists (and comics journalists) can relate to.

If I'm being totally honest, I'm really sick of the subject too. Nothing is changing and people are harping on the same points over and over again, and I'll be damned if I'm not sick to death of tumblr social justice "warriors" harping endlessly on the same few pop culture detritus items without seemingly ever actually donating money and time to charity causes and organizations that do actually help abused and oppressed women. We get it, comics are really sexist and exploitative toward women - something needs to be done about that - and video games have a similar problem, and it's a good thing that a light is being shone on these issues and people are getting called out for their shitty behavior.

But it does feel like I hear about how ragingly sexist and awful it is that Power Girl's costume has a boob window and then look at the volunteer and donation numbers for an organization that does real work helping and defending the rights of women like Planned Parenthood and can't help but notice that one of these things is really easy to do while sitting on your ass in front of a computer and the other actually requires real passion and commitment, and the discrepancy explains itself.

Again, this is not to suggest at all that the debate about sexism in pop culture isn't completely valid. It isn't to say that whoever's making the decision to keep Power Girl's boob window shouldn't be called out for being a pig. But there are places where your victories in the fight against the oppression of women can have real material meaning, real physical impact on abused women, real legislative impact, and none of that seems to get any real attention from anyone. It's a little depressing.
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laceblade



Joined: 22 Jul 2010
Posts: 51
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:08 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:

Again, this is not to suggest at all that the debate about sexism in pop culture isn't completely valid. It isn't to say that whoever's making the decision to keep Power Girl's boob window shouldn't be called out for being a pig. But there are places where your victories in the fight against the oppression of women can have real material meaning, real physical impact on abused women, real legislative impact, and none of that seems to get any real attention from anyone. It's a little depressing.


Critiquing representations of women in various media can have real material meaning.
The way that society feels about women impacts how women are treated - whether they are abused, how much attention is paid, etc.
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:16 pm Reply with quote
Zac's point was that alot of people can talk the talk, but when it comes down to it they don't walk the walk where it counts.
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laceblade



Joined: 22 Jul 2010
Posts: 51
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:20 pm Reply with quote
FenixFiesta wrote:
Zac's point was that alot of people can talk the talk, but when it comes down to it they don't walk the walk where it counts.


I get frustrated when people think that critiquing media online & offline activism are mutually exclusive.
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Anymouse



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 685
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:24 pm Reply with quote
That was not the implication, I believe.

Me and Zac would definitely disagree on a lot of things, but I would certainly have to say that discussion of injustice is only useful if the end point is to stand against it in some practical way. Both are necessary, and the former is meaningless without the latter.
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guildmaster



Joined: 17 Dec 2012
Posts: 355
Location: Hot & Humid FL
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:32 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
CrowLia wrote:
Blood- wrote:
I mock him because he's a jerk. Again, a very widespread opinion at ANN.


I currently can't think of an accurate English expression to convey this, so I'm leaving you with my native "tú no cantas mal las rancheras" and wish you luck looking it up.


This is an English language site. If you aren't competent enough to render something into English you should probably shut the hell up.


I'm not entirely certain, but it think a very rough English equivalent (not a literal translation by any means) is:

"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23771
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:45 pm Reply with quote
But... but... that makes no sense! Everyone at ANN supah-loves me!

...

Er, right?
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guildmaster



Joined: 17 Dec 2012
Posts: 355
Location: Hot & Humid FL
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:51 pm Reply with quote
I haven't been on ANN long enough to know one way or the other, but i read the Spanish and the background on it and that's the closest I can come up with.
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LavenderMintRose



Joined: 30 Nov 2012
Posts: 168
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:42 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:

...
But it does feel like I hear about how ragingly sexist and awful it is that Power Girl's costume has a boob window and then look at the volunteer and donation numbers for an organization that does real work helping and defending the rights of women like Planned Parenthood and can't help but notice that one of these things is really easy to do while sitting on your ass in front of a computer and the other actually requires real passion and commitment, and the discrepancy explains itself.
...

*standing ovation*

That entire post. Thanks for saying that because I'm sure a lot of other people feel it (I know I do).

((on the topic of the actual podcast, sorry if it's too late in the thread to comment on that... when the guest (or maybe it was a twitter question) mentioned Black Butler, I really understood most of the stuff he was saying because I sort of feel that way about that show and a lot of the characters... mostly the Reapers. And I got a little frustrated listening to Zac saying there couldn't be romance without sex, because a person or a relationship can be asexual but not aromantic, but that's probably been discussed a bunch before now because there's been 74 pages so yeah... ))
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vanilla sagat



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:05 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:


If I'm being totally honest, I'm really sick of the subject too. Nothing is changing and people are harping on the same points over and over again, and I'll be damned if I'm not sick to death of tumblr social justice "warriors" harping endlessly on the same few pop culture detritus items without seemingly ever actually donating money and time to charity causes and organizations that do actually help abused and oppressed women. We get it, comics are really sexist and exploitative toward women - something needs to be done about that - and video games have a similar problem, and it's a good thing that a light is being shone on these issues and people are getting called out for their shitty behavior.


The problem is, like the crazy people on tumblr, video game reviewers + comic bloggers etc. are doing more harm than good for feminism and anti racism.

all tumblr has accomplished is creating r/a person I disagree with politically, and all kotaku has accomplished is making someone like me who would consider themselves a liberal/progressive person, to completely ignore any link involving racism or sexism in video games at this point.

all these people are reacting so negatively because thier first exposure to the concept of feminism is coming from some 36 year old dude whos been reviewing dumb video games about shooting people in the face for 10 years, and all of a sudden is pasting words like "objectification" into a gears of war review because he knows it will start a flame war in the comments and get his review more hits, instead of hearing it from someone who actually has a background in the subject and can speak about it intelligently.
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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 5505
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:54 pm Reply with quote
guildmaster wrote:
I'm not entirely certain, but it think a very rough English equivalent (not a literal translation by any means) is:

"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".


Or "Pot calling the kettle black". But neither conveys the feeling in the same mocking tone the Mexicanism does, which is why I chose to use it. And Blood-'s predictably civil reply basically proves my point.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23771
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:00 pm Reply with quote
Going to an English language board and posting a message to another poster in a language they can't understand is odious - and actually against ANN rules, I believe. So when you act like a tool, you shouldn't be surprised if the response is not terribly congenial. Duh.
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