Forum - View topicJust finished SaiKano.
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DKL
 Posts: 1945 Location: California, USA |
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OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Okay, I do stand corrected... that actually makes sense when you explain it like that... I didn't think like that initially since it would seem like it'd came out of nowhere... But that really makes sense (er... the link to all the explanations is on the last page) ONE THING Though... I thought that: spoiler[ the planet was on the verge of being destroyed (like, with the earthquakes), so everyone was trying to get to the last place that isn't OWNED yet... And then, CHISE was like there to defend it... ] Is there more on this somewhere in the thread? It's fairly long. Oh yeah, here is the thread thingy: this thread |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Well, allow me for a moment to deviate from my usual abject humility (  ), and let me quote myself:
I think that answers the question. spoiler[The final attack isn't oriented towards a positive goal (id est, claiming the last unspoiled territory) but a negative goal (retaliation). In a sense, it is a metaphor for the Mutual Assured Destruction (M.A.D.) doctrine of nuclear weapons usage. What we're seeing in the final scenes of SaiKano is the culminating moment of this doctrine. It only adds to the irony that one side's ultimate weapon is destroying both sides.] - abunai |
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DKL
Posts: 1945 Location: California, USA |
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... yeah, I came across that earlier...
So wait, lemme get this straight... what your saying is: spoiler[ The reason why everyone came together to go and fight Japan was to prevent them from getting their weapons development complete? But then... what about before it was complete? Maybe it was in development, but then, destruction couldn't have happened while that was still going on right? I was fairly sure that all the other place in the world were pretty devestated to begin with. I always thought that CHISE's development was in defense to all the outside forces (and there were a lot of them). ] ... so yeah, you have to help me piece all the logic together (it'll be fun) |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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The OVA has provided a partial answer to your first question. spoiler[Mizuki, although heavily armed, did not show any matter / energy transformation capability. She's a prototype, after all.]
No one has an answer for that. It was never discussed or explained in either manga or anime. |
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DKL
Posts: 1945 Location: California, USA |
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Really? Dang, I thought it was hinted off in the last episode... could be wrong though, I mean, I have only seen the thing once (I'll go and check... gimme a few hours... now would be a good time to marathon anyway) ... Wait, who are you talking about in the OAV? Is that someone else? OHHHHHHHHHH, that person was... that person... spoiler[ the lady with the glasses? ] ... or not |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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DKL
Posts: 1945 Location: California, USA |
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... so it isn't the lady with the glasses right? It's like... someone else (can't make out the picture) |
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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So far as I can tell from internal evidence in the manga and in the original TV anime, spoiler[the war hasn't begun yet, when the story opens]. The OVA expands on this: from what I gather, spoiler[the first actions of the war are a strike on Tokyo and the Kantou area. This is consistent with my hypothetical scenario of a pre-emptive attack by the other nations, in an attempt to cripple the Japanese "ChiseTech" (my own term for the tech) weapons research. In all probability, the earlier versions of the technology (Lieutenant Mizuki, that is, and her cyborged weaponry) are what provoked the attack. Becoming aware that such a potentially devastating weapons capability is under development in Japan, the foreign nations would naturally tend to respond with a pre-emptive strike. When Chise's story begins, she is in the process of being altered to a weapon. She and her boyfriend Shuji are living peacefully in Sapporo, with (and this is important) no hint of war. The news, we are told, deals with big companies going bankrupt, and a war in "some country somewhere". Peacetime. In other words, the time frame of the early stages of the war is extremely brief. From the first attack on Tokyo to the attack on Sapporo is only a short interval of time. And the bombing attack on Sapporo is literally a bolt from the blue to the citizenry. They clearly didn't even know that war had begun. So why Sapporo? The manga says quite clearly that there are no significant military targets in that city. Why else, but to attack the weapons system under development, Chise herself? After the initial strikes, it appears that the enemy changes strategy. Knowing (from Chise's response to the Sapporo raid) that ChiseTech is now effectively online, they shift to a policy of wearing down the Japanese by continual assault -- because it is no longer practically possible to take out ChiseTech in a single strike, they have to create a situation where the Japanese decide to surrender. They do this by using their superior numbers - even Chise can't be everywhere, and the result is that the Japanese are forced into continual withdrawal. Perhaps they are also aware that Chise requires a complex regimen of medications, and are working to destroy the capability to produce this. The story doesn't say, except to hint at a lack of production capability for the meds, near the end. Interestingly enough, the enemy also takes care to disguise its identity, in the early stages of the war -- the Sapporo raid is carried out by unmarked planes, and (at least in the version told to the general public) the identity of the attackers is unknown. Assuming this is not merely media manipulation by the Japanese high command, this would seem to imply that the enemy is aware of the possibility of catastrophic retaliation if (when) the Sapporo raid fails to decapitate the Japanese ChiseTech capacity. The Japanese high command respond to the massive assault by using a strategy of major strikes at enemy force concentrations, using Chise. The devastation that follows on foreign nations is (I think) initially localised to the Asian region. We know that both French and English-speaking troops are involved in the war, but most of Chise's actions seem to take place in or near Japan (her range is probably unlimited, but we are told that her top speed is still "only" Mach 2, so a practical limit on operational efficiency is probably imposed by prohibitively long transit times for long-distance sorties). Shortly after that, Chise starts "growing". Sweet Lord, if there was ever a more ominous sentence than that: "Shu-chan, I'm growing", I don't know what it was. All the local military actions don't matter in the end, of course - with Chise's growing power, it is only a matter of time before her responses to any attack become so overwhelmingly destructive that the entire Earth is affected. That's what it means... "ultimate weapon".] - abunai Apologies for the massive use of spoiler space. |
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DKL
Posts: 1945 Location: California, USA |
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... Sorry, I lied, I just fast-forwarded through the last episode with the subs turned on >_>
ANYWAY, some stuff is still weird... spoiler[Chise said that it didn't really matter if the outer-forces killed her or not anymore... the world was gonna end anyway, especially since there was about to be an earthquake that shakes the entire earth (how she would know about this... I dunno... I'll just say that she sensed it) The reason why she wanted to kill everyone was to spare them from the end of the world (which actually starts with suffering, before the death part… which kind of sucks I imagine… but then, this is kind of what Shuji has to go through in the end). So… it seems like she wasn’t the actual cause of the earthquake that would end the world. Unless of course, she was lying. What I’m saying is that her creation and existence wasn’t really the reason that the earth was about to be sodomized. It was going to happen whether she was there or not it seems… Well, this is the conclusion I drew from the last episode anyway. ... But then, it could be that she didn't realize the she was the one doing everything... so yeah, I'm confused] From there, the actual cause of the war becomes kind of blurry… and I still have something to add about the ending. But before I go there, I kind of need some response to the above. |
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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You shouldn't fast-forward. You miss a lot of points that way. Certainly, you misunderstood several of Chise's remarks.
spoiler[No. She caused it. Immediately prior to telling Shuji about the impedning earthquake that will end the world, she tells him that, even if he can't tell from where he's standing, the other side of the planet is gone. It is clear from context that the earthquake is caused by the destruction of the other side of the planet, and that the cause of this is Chise herself. One clear indicator of this is the presence of the enormous structures that stretch down from orbit, and which are clearly under Chise's control. There is no doubt that they are somehow part of Chise. Their presence implies an even greater weapon deployment around the world, and directly link Chise as the cause of the Earth's destruction. I've said before that ChiseTech has to imply some sort of materialisation of substance out of nothingness. Combine that with Chise's perpetual growth, and you get a situation that is, in the long run, fatal to Earth. Even if you're not using it destrcutively as a weapon, there's a limit to how much mass you can add, unevenly distributed, to the Earth, without catastrophic effect.]
spoiler[She wasn't talking about killing everyone. She was talking about killing Shuji, swiftly and painlessly, before he had to suffer. Shuji convinced her to let him share her final moments -- it was the only thing left that he could do for her: be there and comfort her in her (and the planet's) final hours. It's one of the most tear-inducing moments in the series.]
You've completely misunderstood this point. spoiler[Not only was she the cause, it is made quite clear that she was.]
Given the misunderstanding mentioned before, yes, I can understand your confusion. - abunai "Fools! We were born to live!" |
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DKL
Posts: 1945 Location: California, USA |
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Oh
... for now, I totally have to concede and I'll go with your explanations for the meantime until I can get my evidence together *While I actually did read your thing before starting up my line of recent questioning, I was just pitching in my ideas which were somewhat different* ANYWAY, I'll come back when I actually WATCH through the thing 
If I come to the same conclusions though, I'll tell you |
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jk147
Posts: 1 |
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I just finished saikano manga myself (heck, pulled 2 late nights reading the entire thing, now I am dead at work.) I read the manga only and felt that watching the anime will probably take too much out of me, since it is depressing as hell.
I was going to start my own thread about this, but since someone started one already.. might as well just contribute and ask questions in the same thread. Question: spoiler[At the end of the manga, chise stated that her human side is completely gone. Why can't she just reconstruct herself the same way during the middle of volume 7, when she put her body together just to meet Shuji at the observatory? The only thing I can think of is that the part that holds those memories was destroyed, and the ship is really just a backup plan. Either that or she had to turn herself completely as a machine to do her final duty, and that destroyed any humanity that is left in her.] spoiler[ For me, it was quite sad when chise can only replicate herself thru shuji, which means she can only be as complete as he remembers her.. and almost like just a fragment of his imagination. I mean the ship itself is probably intelligent enough to learn how shuji interacts with this VR program and grow that way.. but it just seems to unreal and sad to me.] Anyhow, just by thinking about what happened in this story depresses me. But at the same time, I feel like I am alive and I should make the most out of it every day and every week. Just by staying alive I can accomplish things, and this manga made an impact on me that way. Overall I think it was a good experience. 
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