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Hey, Answerman! [2006-08-04]

Apparently you didn't see when my post got reposted on 4Chan. (Whatever the hell that is.)

burzmali, you have a good argument but the fact still stands that if you watch lolicon, that doesn't 100% guarentee you're going to commit any bad acts towards anyone else, period, and you're right, it's the same with actual child porn in this respect but child porn HAS to involve the act while loli doesn't. The most that should be done in response to someone watching or taking any interest in loli is increased observation on someone like this, but that's not something that practical in today's justice system anyway, so there's really not much you can say against it.

Besides, in response to your drunk driving analogy that doesn't really work in this situation, in a better comparison to watching lolicon and actually commiting a form of child abuse it'd be the equivilent of someone intoxicated getting a kick out of watching someone else drive drunk in a cartoon. He's watching a fictional act that can be performed, but it's not a given he's going to do it too.

Apparently you didn't see when my post got reposted on 4Chan. (Whatever the hell that is.) I think copying something I specifically posted on this site and posting it elsewhere - somewhere, I was later informed, where people WERE making fun of it and posting disgusting pictures as well - a violation of MY rights, and yes, I think it was done with malicious intent - and I'd surmise that intent was to humiliate me behind my back. Part of that thread was actually removed, which might be why you don't remember it. It doesn't exist, anymore.

I can't believe it. I can't believe how many people on here are trying to justify such sick fantasies. I've been watching movies and reading comics for a good 13 years, and it almost makes me want to quit.

How can I be like these people? YES, I said it. THESE people. Oh no, am I sterotyping? God forbid. The portrayal of teenage girls being killed or maimed or whatever the hell else goes on this particular breed of movie is morally wrong. MORALLY wrong. I'm entitled to hold on to my morals, right? Are you going to try to tell me I'm not aloud to have them? That I'm oppressing a freedom? F you. Hitler oppressed, I'm voicing my opinion.

Do you have any idea what a person who has been emotionaly or physically disfigured goes through? Probably not. Oh, maybe you're book smart, but I seriously doubt you've had any, and pardon the pun, hands on experience. It stains a person. It doesn't just go away. The psychological effects are forever. And you're going to FANTASIZE about it? (yes, I KNOW it's only a movie, it's not REAL people, it's only PORTRAYING real people... Good grief, that's the lamest argument I have ever heard...)

It's sick. I can't believe how sick society is. I watch movies and read books and play games to forget about this twisted world... but there's no escaping it.

Jason Vorhees kills innocence. Even if you try to justify murder, even if, in your mind, it's only a hollywood actor, it has no bearing on reality, why in the world would you want to be associated with one of those horrors on any level? Seriously, why would you even want such a stigma touching you? Aren't there enough diversions in life? Can't you get your kicks somewhere else?

Please.

My parents were killed by Jason Vorhees.
I was only 2 ½ when it started.

You want to know the damnedest thing? The nightmares never go away. Do you know what that's like? To always dream in nightmares? Probably not. My first memory is of hiding behind a freaking couch. Hiding from the man monster. I wasn't very good at hiding. He almost killed me before it stopped.

And the nightmares never go away.

Is this fuel for fantasy? Copypasta is a dying artform that we must protect. Please explain thrust vectoring to ME, because I don't understand.

I don't get it. I, as a former SA Photoshop Phreak, don't understand. Will one of you please explain?

This is stupid and redundant. I'm finished. It's not like you're going to convince anyone either way. I'm so depressed. I came in a two year old baby seal, and this is the world I'm whoring her in? So when she's, I don't know, a coat, is she easier to sell? Is that how it works?

I was only 2 1/2% over the legal B.A.C..

Please explain Bel Air to me.

Riiight.. beating people up. Which brings me to fast-forward to the next point,

Very true. But their presence doesn't get their entire society jittery and trigger-happy with accusations. Unlike some communities in other parts of the globe, of course.

Not accepting it as right is one thing, insulting and accusing others that they're wrong is another. Wouldn't it be better if you just keep to your own values, and they keep to theirs? Wouldn't it be wiser if you didn't cross the line and tell them that they should erase their books, purge their education and upbringing, and re-learn everything as dictated by your own culture and standards?

And today, there are still plenty of people who draw lolicon, and people who read/watch lolicon - in Japan and eventually, many other parts of the world. So.. what was your point, anyway?

Yes, and Japan doesn't mind having lolicon artists and fans living in their towns, and lolicon content being made available to the masses through shops or hosted on japanese servers. And I don't see massive public protests and arrests being made for that. So what's your point?

Of course, and so do many other countries in the world, anyway. Without much success, if I might add. Isn't that a well-known fact?

Being "not exactly thrilled" is understandable. At least they're not branding lolicon fans outright as pedophiles, criminals and/or requiring some sort of therapy, unlike what we've seen in the last few pages of this thread (or was it the other one? I've lost count).

If loli is okay because no one is harmed then drunk driving is okay as long as no one gets hit.

You guys are not-so-nice-people Yuri and Yaoi are sicko shit as well and yet you pick on loli and what the hell about furries in the end its all sick shit and your all sickos. I wack to loli im proud to say I do so as long as I got to go to cons and deal with people walking around and shoving the fact that they like gay sex in my face. I don't mind people expressing their love for loli. Like I said its all perverted to somebody deal with it.


Mr Oni

And people saying no one can be harmed by loli... Do you really feel its healthy for people to look at animated child abuse?

If someone could really show a connection between lolicon and an actual child being molested would you all be crying 'it's only pictures and art for gods sake!!!' or would you feel a bit bad?

Even in Japan, it's mostly hidden from public view. Normal people don't know where to look for lolicon online, and lolicon fans don't exactly go outside too often. So it's not so much that people have come to a reasoned acceptance of child porn, it's that they just don't think about it. Which is a whole other problem right there.

But I have never said it should be banned outright.

My point was that when this subculture does get dragged out of the shadows into the public eye, there's the same reaction of repulsion and panic in Japan that there would be in the United States.

Apparently not.

(But I do think we should be able to agree that most lolicon fans are by definition pedophiles.)

I just want to see it kept entirely out of the reach of children and teenagers

Twage wrote:

I just want to see it kept entirely out of the reach of children and teenagers

Sounds like censoring the internet, suppressing the media freedom, and burning artists at the stake. Hmm.

I don't live in the bible belt I don't care about the bible. Animated Faggotry is no better or worse than wacking to animated loli. I don't have any desire to touch real children thats freakin sick but an animated girl is too cute super cute. I like to pet the screen when they are on.

Anyway, whatever. The lolicon fans aren't going to change their minds now that they have finally managed to persuade themselves that it's ok!!! (I still find this a bit jaw-dropping.) The blindly liberal people screaming about how we should allow everything can have their own views as well I guess. I'm pretty reasonable about most things but I figure there must be some point where you draw the line. Real child porn is bad, therefore animated child porn is bad. But have fun anyway.

burzmali wrote:

If loli is okay because no one is harmed then drunk driving is okay as long as no one gets hit.

Non-sequitur. No one can be harmed by looking at loli.

You're making a postulation of loli being a necessary gateway offense, and using a non-gateway offense as an analogue. That's not accurate. It's a logical fallacy.

"Right" and "Wrong" aren't determined by outcome, they are determined by many things, including possible outcome and social mores. Driving drunk is wrong because people can die. Child molestation and other forms of abuse is wrong because is is psychologically damaging and a violation of many of those mores as well as other reasons.

So, you can't equate loli-cons with those. You have to equate them with other gateway factors. Pot leading to crack or D&D leading to satanism (oh I am so joking with that one). If you want to equate loli-con to something bad, you need to equate it to some other act that leads to criminal activity. Which, by the way, is going to be hard, because people argue all of thoes constantly as well.