Forum - View topic
EP. REVIEW: PERSONA 5 the Animation


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
zrnzle500
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3551
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:14 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
And I am impressed at how hard the show commits to this as the finale, complete with final-episode credits over Akechi's menacing slow-walk. There's already been confirmation that the real ending of the story will get covered in a special at the end of this year, and those familiar with the game of course even know how Ren's untimely demise here will get circumvented for that. The problem is that even as an exceedingly clever way to abuse the limited episode count, the result means the story of this actual episode ends up feeling hollow and unsatisfying. None of the mysteries powering the world of Persona 5 are close to answered yet, and indeed more are raised at the end here. As much effort as the show expended on setting Akechi up, it can seem frustrating to the audience to turn everything they know about him on its head with no answers offered until later on. There was some strong, clever stuff in this episode, but it ultimately feels unfair to just drop this giant shock in the audience's lap, then tell them they'll get an explanation by waiting three months. (Or just going and playing the game instead.)


Perhaps it was knowing that there would be more before going into the episode, but I did not find it unsatisfying. Quite the opposite I'd say. We didn't get the answers now, but we know that we will get them. All we have to do is wait, and only about 3 months at that. Perhaps we have become spoiled by how quickly we get things that waiting three months can be seen as some sort of heinous crime. We waited about as long for the finale of the first season of BBB and we didn't get word on the time frame until soon before they aired the episode, so personally I can be patient since we know when it will be coming. Wouldn't even be the first time for me that the MC of a show was shot and seemingly killed in the season finale, which wouldn't be addressed until the continuation aired three months later. And from a production standpoint, I would go so far as to say that I welcome a three month delay, if only so that they can get some time to make it as good as they can.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
XerBlade
Subscriber<br>Exempt from Grammar rulesSubscriber
Exempt from Grammar rules


Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 146
Location: Depletion Garden, Nashville, TN
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:16 pm Reply with quote
Christopher Farris wrote:
As mentioned, this is based on a ‘Bad Ending’ from the game [. . .] There's already been confirmation that the real ending of the story will get covered in a special at the end of this year,


spoiler[No, it isn't. Yes, most of the bad ends result in Akechi shooting Ren in the face. But the lead up to it happening here was actually the path to the true end, and Akechi DOES still shoot Ren in the face at that moment on said path to the true end. The brief bit of static that happened during that scene (on top of the stuff Ren said to Sae right before that) was supposed to be a sign that not all was as it seemed.

So, no, this run did NOT end on a Bad End. It just ended on a cheap cliffhanger. A cliffhanger that technically wasn't in the source material, because the game literally reveals Ren's true fate like a whole minute later. [And the post-credits tease kinda did here, too. A comment from Ryuji in the next scene was the first true confirmation that everything really went according to plan.]]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 1165
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:23 am Reply with quote
The final episode had some pretty awesome visual staging and direction, and the new OP was awesome too.

But as a whole the series has been a let-down, though expectations were already low based on P4.

It'd be neat if the final episodes upped the animation quality. And if the direction was as good as this one.

But there's still a lot to cover.

An entire ep would have to spent on simply spoiler[explaining how Ren didn't die, and leading into the Shido arc. Then another ep just on getting to Shido and also Akechi's death, though I think they might combine that with the final battle with Shido simultaneously in a change from the game (If they're smart). Then after that there's the whole thing with Morgana and the revelations in Mementos, and after all that there's the true Igor and the final confrontation with Yaldaboath.
]


Even at a very rushed pace, that's at least 4 half-hour episodes worth! Have they confirmed the number of special episodes? Or is it just going to be one 1-hour special?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
switchgear1131



Joined: 14 Mar 2013
Posts: 217
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:56 pm Reply with quote
This review makes me wonder if the reviewer has even played the game. This was not at all based on the "bad end". It is in fact based on the true end. Stop spreading false information and either play the game or back and play it again to remember how it goes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LuScr



Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 101
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:57 pm Reply with quote
As others mentioned, this isn't the Bad End. It's not hard to see how the reviewer was confused, though, since the only indicator to the contrary was a context-free "stinger" line after the end credits.

Rather than just wasting 90 seconds staring at Akechi's back, the anime would have been better off adapting what the game did: spoiler[A newscast announcing that Joker had "committed suicide" in custody, with a montage of each of the Phantom Thieves hearing the news and freaking out, ending with Ryuji screaming at the sky in rage...before smirking, and revealing that everything had gone according to plan.]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
killjoy_the



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 1941
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:49 am Reply with quote
Too much CSI kinda ruined this ending for me. Are people supposed to buy that the dude managed to kill a guard standing with his back to the door with a shot to the back, then proceeded to sit down and suicide by shooting his forehead with that angle? I understand Akechi's pulling strings here but come on.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 1165
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:51 pm Reply with quote
switchgear1131 wrote:
This review makes me wonder if the reviewer has even played the game. This was not at all based on the "bad end". It is in fact based on the true end. Stop spreading false information and either play the game or back and play it again to remember how it goes.


Technically one of the game's bad endings does occur pretty much like this and stops there. It just so happens that for the true end you can continue on past it. So it's not technically wrong. Even with the tease at the end, where if you're not familiar with the game and are just a viewer doesn't tell you either way what is occurring. Though viewers can obviously guess this is not how things are supposed to end.


killjoy_the wrote:
Too much CSI kinda ruined this ending for me. Are people supposed to buy that the dude managed to kill a guard standing with his back to the door with a shot to the back, then proceeded to sit down and suicide by shooting his forehead with that angle? I understand Akechi's pulling strings here but come on.


spoiler[Well Akechi does have some big string-pullers and they were all in on this plan. So it's not like the evidence or any actual crime scene forensics will legitimately take place.]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GVentola



Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:30 pm Reply with quote
Quote from review: Shido's politics are an odd element of this story. It's worth noting that in the original game, his exact platform was rather ambiguous, while a few more details are given here. His talk of reestablishing the country, making it a powerful nation that others will bow to, definitely smacks of the right-wing nationalism that was accelerating worldwide as the original Persona 5 was released...To the writing's credit, one aspect that does land as hauntingly realistic comes right at the end; even after confessing his crimes on live television, Shido's supporters still deny any wrongdoing and rally around his campaign anyway.

Gah, I hate when anime reviewers dip into their own political beliefs. The Banana Fish reviewer did that, too, using Ash's being a victim of sexual abuse to start insinuating Kavanaugh was guilty of being a serial rapist without due evidence just because some women said so & it was somehow unfair to all victims of sexual abuse everywhere not to lynch the guy and make his wife & daughters miserable. I come here & to anime for entertainment & escapism. When I want politics, I surf to news sites. The reviewers here have got to realize not everyone shares their views & is going to be like, "Yeah! You tell them!" That goes for the entertainment industry in general, seeming to think everyone who watches is of a like mind & will be cheering them on.

I'm really disappointed that Japanese anime has started to get into political commentary for other nations. I'm catching up on Lupin III Pt. V, & there was a subplot on there about a right-wing French politician who campaigned against acts of terrorism by illegal immigrants, & it ended up he was the one funding those acts. I was like, "Great, now Lupin is 'woke', too. Like we really need to learn lessons from a show about a thief & his capers."

Well, back to anime discussion. I'm not a gamer, so not familiar with the various Persona games. (The reason I'm not a gamer is not because I look down on it; I'm just terribly bad & gave up on video games years ago.) In spite of all this, I did immensely enjoy both Persona4 & Persona5, so the idea that some commenters had that people who didn't play the game would find the anime incomprehensible are wrong. I loved Persona4 so much I bought the DVDs for myself so I could watch it again, & consider it an all time fave. Considering doing the same for Persona5. I heard in the games you can select which girl you want the hero romantically aligned with. I've done some shipping in my head, but in the end, I think it was a good idea to leave both Yuu (Persona4) and Ren celibate. They both are great, compassionate guys, good friends to everyone, & it would be unfair for them to place one of the girls above the others. I do ship Kanji & Naoto in P4, & recently decided to get behind Ryuji & Ann in P5.

Part of me is glad Ren is still alive; I mean, like I said, he's a great guy, but the tragic "bad ending" actually worked dramatically, & after going several weeks waiting for "Dark Sun", I grew accustomed to the idea of thinking of him as dead, & wondering how his friends would react. I actually felt embarrassed watching the first several minutes of Dark Sun because I had been imagining such scenarios. I feel cheated out of some angst. I wish they would have released it sooner. Like the night I first saw "I Won't Let It End This Way", at first, I was like, "That tragic ending worked", but then I felt hollow in my heart & hoped Ren would be magically resurrected. Now if the special had come out shortly after then, that would've been good.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 1165
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:00 pm Reply with quote
Finally checked out the Dark Sun special.

As expected, it was rushed and just bad.

We don't even get any good action scenes. Joker and groups just dance in front of the camera, we get flashy images of the Persona, and everything is solved without any difficulty or tension.

This whole thing is just phoned in play by plays of the game. There are compilation films of entire anime series that are far better and smarter than this.

I don't expect the final part to be any better, but at least length-wise, there's only a little to cover with regards to the finale, which could be competently done. But at this point it hardly matters.

The only highlight that could possibly come out of this is perhaps Atlus finally telling us what P5R actually is at the end of the broadcast.


GVentola wrote:
I'm really disappointed that Japanese anime has started to get into political commentary for other nations.


Can't blame them from the temptation to provide more context based on what's trending. And not surprised they'd go with the obvious American angle (or at least just regurgitating what the American corporate media paint it as); either that, or that's what the English translators/localizers did on their own, so I don't know what the original Japanese emphasized or didn't. Maybe the reviewer does... But by and large it's an open secret that Japan is beholden to American Foreign Policy since the end of WWII and is its leverage proxy in the Pacific. Which is something many Japanese people are critical of. The same for Europe.

I do think it's a bit hilarious that the reviewer says, "His talk of reestablishing the country, making it a powerful nation that others will bow to, definitely smacks of the right-wing nationalism that was accelerating worldwide..." and it's like Que? Bowing down to the dictates of the American Empire has been going on for a long long long long time, by both left and right feet marching to the same drum, and has never been anything exclusive to Trump. If anything, Trump ran on a platform of trying to dissipate tensions between superpowers, particularly the insane attacks and slanders by the American Deep State against Russia versus his known criminal opponent and her predecessor who wished only to accelerate tensions because they belonged to the "Indispensable Nation" and how dare anybody else challenge their standing in the world order!

If anything, Americans need to realize that the other half of the world doesn't see any difference between the red or blue parties. The outcomes are always the same - war, war, sanctions, economic and currency control and more war, and pushing and demands of progressive immoral sex and population control values. And they are not so critical of one Donald Trump as much as they are criticizing America as an Empire. And when relevant, they're obviously going to use the current figurehead as the stand-in prop.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MiloTheFirst



Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 382
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:15 pm Reply with quote
jdnation wrote:

I do think it's a bit hilarious that the reviewer says, "His talk of reestablishing the country, making it a powerful nation that others will bow to, definitely smacks of the right-wing nationalism that was accelerating worldwide..." and it's like Que? Bowing down to the dictates of the American Empire has been going on for a long long long long time, by both left and right feet marching to the same drum, and has never been anything exclusive to Trump. If anything, Trump ran on a platform of trying to dissipate tensions between superpowers, particularly the insane attacks and slanders by the American Deep State against Russia versus his known criminal opponent and her predecessor who wished only to accelerate tensions because they belonged to the "Indispensable Nation" and how dare anybody else challenge their standing in the world order!

If anything, Americans need to realize that the other half of the world doesn't see any difference between the red or blue parties. The outcomes are always the same - war, war, sanctions, economic and currency control and more war, and pushing and demands of progressive immoral sex and population control values. And they are not so critical of one Donald Trump as much as they are criticizing America as an Empire. And when relevant, they're obviously going to use the current figurehead as the stand-in prop.


wow, way to make an ass out of yourself. this wasn't even an American thing, the rise of right wing nationalism that the reviewers is referring to is a real phenomenon that has been happening round the world for the last decade, Starting with Venezuela and Rusia then going from Italy to mexico, Brazil, Singapore, etc, it is notable how it has become frighteningly predominant for people to vote for populist strongmen that propose borderline fascist policies in their campaigns. If you want to be critical of the USA you are welcomed to, I am sure it isn't hard to find things their system do wrong, but at least bring in your bashing when it is relevant otherwise you look bad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MiloTheFirst



Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 382
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:12 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The final fight against the revealed Yaldabaoth at least hits the mark as suitably epic. The design and direction makes great use of this boss' CGI model. It's got real impact and just looks cool as hell. I'm thankful that the final Persona battle of this show ended up being one of its few good efforts, impressively illustrating just how a fight against something of this massive scale would even look in real-time


I completely disagree with this argument here. IMO what really elevated that scene in the game to legendary level was how they timed the escalation of the emotional catharsis with the music and camera direction, here they didn't get either of those right, not by a long shot.

Quote:
The trickier issue with this plot point in-universe is how one of the first revelations of this episode lays the blame for these shortcomings not at existing societal structures, but rather at the hands of a tangible antagonistic force. So, the societal problems in the story that mirror our own are here caused by the presence of an actual supernatural villain.

That's a difficult conceptual pill to swallow, depending on how you approach Persona's particular brand of escapism. (...) The main problem is that Persona 5 doesn't offer any real-world analogue for overcoming the corrupt God of desires that's causing its world's issues, beyond basic platitudes about free-thinking individuality.


come on! how could you get it so backwards? making the source of the trouble a God instead of "societal structure" is what actually makes it less tangible, and that's were the symbolism lies, gods are the representation of human nature given form, making the culprit and final adversary a god is not pinning the blame on a powerful guy with a name, it is stating that the root of the problem is human nature itself, not any "laws" or "societal structure", but people deciding to close their eyes in order to not think by themselves, as long as people act like sheep there will be those that treat them like livestock

Quote:
But then after that grand finale, we have to come to the epilogue of Persona 5, which has more of its own problems. The big issue is how things get resolved (...) The insidiousness of this development is how easy it is to shrug off, because it fits into our ideas of how society usually works, but the problem is that the message of this story was always that society shouldn't have to work like that (...) For all their trials and efforts, the Phantom Thieves don't get to be hailed as heroes, the system is trusted to bring down Shido instead.


This might be a matter of perspective but I think the ending of Persona 5 fit well. the overall theme of the Persona series is that people are lazy and thus will choose to look away from reality every time it would make their lives simpler. In P5 in particular it explored how people in power could exploit that part of human nature in order to act with impunity. the message is not that the judicial system is a mess and now that everyone is woke Society instantly evolved and they can just throw the bad guy in jail and live happily ever after, the message is that the world still is a mess and the current institutions are still the best thing we currently have, however, now that the people actually care to protest injustice the judicial system is no longer able to be a tool for the corrupt and thus they can trust the MC to be processed properly

Quote:
Ren happily sacrifices his own freedom ‘If it'll help reform society’. (...) "Everything can work out just fine, so long as you work with the system and have connections in all the right places!" It flies in the face of the societal upheaval the Phantom Thieves were working toward all this time, as they pass the baton on to ‘responsible adults’, like their teenage rebellion was just a passing phase.


now, this is quite a misrepresentation, Ren doesn't sacrifice himself, for once because they had already succeeded at reforming society, there is nothing to sacrifice himself over. the phantom thieves's battle ended with Jaldabaoh, now it is time for his own personal rematch battle to begin, since he can now trust that the trial won't be rigged he decides to hand himself over for justice to be done and clear his good named that Shido had previously tarnished. regarding the having connections part, this is a spin on the other Persona theme of "bonding with people makes you grow", it is just that instead of having the power of friendship save the day, we get the more pragmatic result of having the persons he bonded with going out of their way to help him out because they cherished him, it is his own time and effort he spent caring for others what came back to help him in his time of need.

Quote:
I should make clear that I still have a lot of fondness for the original Persona 5 game's story, but its ending has always been one of the least interesting things about it. (...) But the bigger issues with Persona 5's ending lie at the heart of its source material.


I hope my opinions in this matter can help you re-examine your perspective on the ending of this gem of a game. thanks a lot for sitting through this mediocre adaptation and sharing your thoughts with us
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chien93



Joined: 28 Mar 2018
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:26 pm Reply with quote
I'm going to respectfully disagree about the final battle.
It's just more of the same low-quality 'battles' from the original show. The team just literally spent two and a half minutes throwing magic at the last boss before he flattened them. Seriously, this show just disappoints to the end. Even Pokemon battles have more movement than this.

Story is rushed as usual, but we've all come to expect that at this point.

Honestly A1, what happened? You had such good staff and somehow managed to screw up one of the latest hot properties. The director of the last two Persona 3 movies was the story boarder for crying out loud!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 3841
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:29 pm Reply with quote
MiloTheFirst wrote:


wow, way to make an ass out of yourself. this wasn't even an American thing, the rise of right wing nationalism that the reviewers is referring to is a real phenomenon that has been happening round the world for the last decade, Starting with Venezuela and Rusia then going from Italy to mexico, Brazil, Singapore, etc, it is notable how it has become frighteningly predominant for people to vote for populist strongmen that propose borderline fascist policies in their campaigns. If you want to be critical of the USA you are welcomed to, I am sure it isn't hard to find things their system do wrong, but at least bring in your bashing when it is relevant otherwise you look bad


Not to mention getting facts straight on Trump's campaign.

Trump ran less on trying to ease tensions between Russia and almost every country in Europe along with the U.S. (tensions that were largely Russia's fault).

And more on the premise of undoing the suppose damage that Obama supposedly caused in both his terms (damage that he wasn't at fault or was non-existent).

Being tougher on Immigration (despite Obama deporting more immigrants than his predecessors).

Trying to kill healthcare (because apparently Republicans in office hadn't been trying to do that for all Obama's presidency).

Picking a fight with China on Trade (which makes the claim he was trying to ease tensions with Russia even more laughable).

And taking the fight the Isis (something that U.S. and various other groups were already doing)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group