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INTEREST: Hentai Artist Aiue Oka Asks Readers to Not Pirate, Buy Officially Licensed Manga


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TsukasaElkKite



Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 3169
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:49 pm Reply with quote
ETX wrote:
>FAKKU

After the recent stunt they pulled with HentaiHaven they can take a hike.


What happened?
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CANimeFan88



Joined: 19 Feb 2016
Posts: 346
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:16 pm Reply with quote
Is Enshudo a better option for subscribing to online hentai manga instead of FAKKU?

I want to know what's a better option than what's free.
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Dicku-kun



Joined: 14 Jun 2018
Posts: 132
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:22 pm Reply with quote
No thanks. I don't want to own porn. Too much of a hassle to hide from everyone lmao

Quote:
Oka's Hypnotic Sexual Counseling, Secret Engagement, I Want That Little Devil Kashima to Wring Me Out!, and My Beloved Shipgirl are available digitally through FAKKU


Oh Fakku... HARD NOPE
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 3356
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:57 pm Reply with quote
Idgal wrote:

Not all doujin are fanart, doujin just means fan made. Many of the doujin are OC. doujin are comparable to indie comic/titles.

I'm well aware of this, but the article explicitly mentions that 3 out of the 4 titles in question are fanart of other works.

And before anyone accuses me of hypocrisy, I feel the same reservations about Western artists profiting off of other IPs. Making fanart because you love a work is great, but when you start selling it, that's when it starts to feel skeevy.
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dark_bozu



Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 152
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:19 am Reply with quote
I'm curious - is it even legal to publish on sites like FAKKU non-original doujinshi? E.g., there's GoPri doujinshi that were made by Aiue Oka and you could buy it on FAKKU, but at the same time there's a clear statement that: "Publisher: ENSHODO", i.e. it not a self-published work. Could anyone clarify the legality of those doujinshi?
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Shaddy_Pl



Joined: 18 Nov 2015
Posts: 18
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:48 am Reply with quote
1. Not everyone can read japanese
2. Not every series you can buy in English
3. I have to read few first chapters, to know if the series is good or bad

Japanese manga artists, and publisher don't think how it's look outside Japan. They have chapters in magazines every week, so you cane read them before you buy volume. You can read them in library, or just from friend, that have it in home.
In many countries, only option to know about some series is to read illegal scans. I buy some series, just because I found them interesting on some scan site. And some other looks good at the begining, but few chapters later it was typical crap. Many series would never leave Japan if no scans.
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Zalis116
Moderator


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 6450
Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:29 am Reply with quote
EX23 wrote:
So, people dislike FAKKU due to its history and the owner?

It doesn't seem to help the piracy issue much if FAKKU is surrounded by controversy.


It's just another case of the viewerbase and readerbase getting up in arms over a big evil company threatening to take away their free stuff. Even the creator of the bootleg hentai streaming site in question said that the "controversy" was more of an unfortunate misunderstanding based on communication delays than anything else.

https://twitter.com/realpapahh/status/1149618904316071944

idgal wrote:

Not all doujin are fanart, doujin just means fan made. Many of the doujin are OC. doujin are comparable to indie comic/titles.
I'd say it's more like some doujinshi are originals, but most are based on pre-existing intellectual property. I took a look at the first 3 pages of works tagged "Doujinshi" on a certain reader site, and only 21/108 of them (19%) weren't parodies of pre-existing non-ero franchises.
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NiPah



Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Posts: 86
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:03 am Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
I always chuckle a bit when artists complain about piracy while simultaneously profiting from doujins based on another individual's intellectual property. I know there's a large gray area that Japanese publishers largely let slide due to how many authors got their start doing doujin, but you're still making money off of stuff that someone else imagined.


Im curious what your feelings on music covers or Let’s Play videos are then.
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Tenbyakugon



Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 687
Location: Michigan, United States
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:15 am Reply with quote
sirdano1 wrote:
Sorry, I prefer not to give my money to lolicons or rape fetishists.


*money or time Laughing
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Amibite



Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 194
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:22 am Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
It's just another case of the viewerbase and readerbase getting up in arms over a big evil company threatening to take away their free stuff. Even the creator of the bootleg hentai streaming site in question said that the "controversy" was more of an unfortunate misunderstanding based on communication delays than anything else.

https://twitter.com/realpapahh/status/1149618904316071944


Taking a PR response at face value without knowing the actual situation. Big oof there. It's pretty clear Fakku only responded due to the immense amount of pressure being put on them from the community. You don't ghost someone for a month 'accidentally', which even PapaHH still stands by is a misstep by Fakku. They tried to play a shady game and got called out for it. Now they're walking it back after backlash.
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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 12881
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:51 pm Reply with quote
Oka's work is pretty godly so I wouldn't mind giving them money.
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 3356
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:09 pm Reply with quote
NiPah wrote:

Im curious what your feelings on music covers or Let’s Play videos are then.

That's a fair point, and there's definitely a good discussion to be had about it in a more appropriate venue; you could get a lot of mileage out of trying to figure out just how far fair use extends. Suffice it to say that I think there is a significant difference between providing free (and/or subscriber-supported) content using a particular IP, and directly selling a product based on that IP.

(As far as things like cover songs go, YouTube has a system which allows copyright holders to claim and receive monetization from cover song videos.)
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FinalVentCard



Joined: 28 Oct 2018
Posts: 76
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:25 pm Reply with quote
Amibite wrote:
Zalis116 wrote:
It's just another case of the viewerbase and readerbase getting up in arms over a big evil company threatening to take away their free stuff. Even the creator of the bootleg hentai streaming site in question said that the "controversy" was more of an unfortunate misunderstanding based on communication delays than anything else.

https://twitter.com/realpapahh/status/1149618904316071944


Taking a PR response at face value without knowing the actual situation. Big oof there. It's pretty clear Fakku only responded due to the immense amount of pressure being put on them from the community. You don't ghost someone for a month 'accidentally', which even PapaHH still stands by is a misstep by Fakku. They tried to play a shady game and got called out for it. Now they're walking it back after backlash.


So, we should trust the guy who apparently wasn't paying his employees, made four-figures daily and hosted gigs upon gigs of content he didn't own (a lot of it content already licensed, released, and uncensored in the US)? Laughing

The people on the Fakku hate train are really obvious, you can tell they just don't wanna pay for anything. They complain Fakku doesn't really help the much-vaunted artists, but when the artists step in and say hey, these folks help pay my bills, please support my work that way these reactionaries basically send the artists up the river.

The venn diagram of people who hate Fakku because "they stole scanlators" or whatever and people who hate Fakku over what they "did" to HH is a circle. People just don't wanna pay for stuff and scramble for whatever moral-sounding excuse they can scrounge up.
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piotrus



Joined: 08 Oct 2010
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:11 pm Reply with quote
A bunch of good points were made already. Few more things to consider:

1) It is difficult to balance the 'sharing is caring' and traditional economy. On one level, sharing stuff for free, often illegally, is how many people become familiar with a product. On another, there is the fallacy(?) of lost sales.

2) I am quite familiar with hentai scanlation community, and while many people in it like the idea of Japanese artists (and scanlators who go pro) making $$$, what is not as cool is how they deal with leaks. IMHO [Illegal reader site URL removed ~Zalis] is very cool about leaks, and never issues takedowns. Heck, they even share a lot of their member stuff after few months or years. Another site, I think called 2d markets, allows leaks of their content in mid resolution and censored, and only issues take downs for high res uncensored stuff (premium). But FAKKU end ENSHODO are much less so. Not only they issue takedowns for everything and never ever have I seen them share anything on another site, but here's what makes me really cringe - in a few cases ENSHODO seems to have issued takedowns for free fan translations of stuff they have licensed. So not only they don't let their stuff (as in, their translations/edits) be shared, but if they license a book, they are now actively targeting alternative translations/edits of those books that have been done by independent scanlators. That's, IMHO, is pretty 'evil'. I mean, let's face it, pretty much everyone who works in FAKKU or ENSHODO grew up with free, pirated hentai, FAKKU was even a regular scanlator group for years before they went 'legal', but now they are effectively threatening to sue those who do what they were doing when they were younger. Not cool.

3) Of course, the Japanese artists who get their $$ from FAKKU or ENSHODO want us to support them that way, but one has to consider where such support may lead. If more and more stuff becomes licenced in 'the West', if almost all of major Japenese artists go that route, think about the fate of the current sites that provide free doujins/h-manga. A lot of their stuff we are used to being free will go away. I have spent probably four $ digits buying h-stuff legally, so I am putting my money where it is worth, but I am spending on Japanese services (buying original books or digital archives from Japanese services), as I don't feel I like what FAKKU or ENSHODO are doing or the road they are paving. So that note from those artists to 'Western fans' misses me - I am already supporting Japanese artists, and I don't like that their chosen way to work with 'the West' is through such services.

Long story short, it's a long standing conflict between those who think stuff like this (culture in general and porn in particular) should be free and those who want to lock it down behind paywalls to make profit. And of course the solution is in the middle. I am personally in favour of a system that would reduce the traditional copyright length to something like one year. In other words, stuff like doujins (or manga, or anime, or whatever) should be sold (rented, etc.) for about a year. After that it should be freely available online. Creators should get their $$$ from streaming/hosting services for new stuff, but their old works should be free. This is what [Illegal reader site URL removed] has been doing IMHO and I wish the industry would adopt this model rather than the less scanlator community friendly model of FAKKU/ENSHODO.

[EDIT: Do not mention/link to illegal download/reader/streaming sites ~Zalis]

So, TL;DR, I don't support this call for action. F/E represent a very traditional, old-school type of business, the one responsible for 'why we cannot have nice things', and IMHO they should go out of business and the artists who work with them should switch to more consumer and community friendly services that don't divide the world into black and white 'customers' and 'pirates'.
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Crispy45



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 277
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:35 pm Reply with quote
FinalVentCard wrote:
So, we should trust the guy who apparently wasn't paying his employees, made four-figures daily and hosted gigs upon gigs of content he didn't own (a lot of it content already licensed, released, and uncensored in the US)? Laughing


I personally trust the guy who isn't running PR damage control and blocking everyone on Twitter who asks questions and trying to deflect the situation and isn't known for predatory business practices, censorship, and strong-arm tactics. If the worse you can call the other side is 'a pirate'... well... that's a pretty benign

piotrus wrote:
So, TL;DR, I don't support this call for action. F/E represent a very traditional, old-school type of business, the one responsible for 'why we cannot have nice things', and IMHO they should go out of business and the artists who work with them should switch to more consumer and community friendly services that don't divide the world into black and white 'customers' and 'pirates'.


The main issue with Fakku is they want to be the Crunchyroll of hentai but that's just not possible. Crunchyroll is only competing for 30-40 shows a season. Fakku would have to compete with thousands and thousands of smut that gets put out every year put out under numerous official publishing outlets as well as the self-published outlets like doujinshi, which is impossible to do. Fakku can't even obtain 1% of the hentai thousands of Japanese artists are making. It's an misguided model, and only serves to benefit the handful of artists and companies that do business with Fakku, which is not very much in the grand scheme of things. You're better off buying from the artist directly, like DLsite, Toranoana, or Melon Books. Which all have a much, much larger catalog as well.
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