Forum - View topicA discussion on the merits of Fate Zero and Fate Stay Night
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Izanagi009
 Posts: 464 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA |
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well, seeing as a discussion of Fate/Zero has popped up in a "This Week in Anime" about Case Files (caused partially by me), I figured that it would be wise to divert the topic and discussion here.
As a mission statement; this forum is to allow for in depth discussion between fans of Fate Stay Night and Fate Zero. The discussion topics will most likely revolve around the literary qualities of the two aforementioned works as well as counters to the arguments presented. As I have posted my own opinions and the like in the aforementioned "This Week in Anime", I will elect to step back unless moderation of the dialectic is needed. Happy discussing |
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HyugaHinata
 Posts: 3505 |
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I love discussing the pros and cons of specific shows.
I enjoyed Fate/Stay Night except for spoiler[Shiro being a moron 95% of the time. And how he only won because he had two McGuffins.] Fate/Zero I enjoyed much more. spoiler[It was darker and grittier. The characters behaved intelligently, and they were willing to do almost anything to win (Except for Waver. He's the Best Boy). Uryu was also a very unique and interesting villain.] |
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Ronnie Hall
Posts: 8 |
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This is one of my favorite Anime. I love it though it is a very convoluted series. The reincarnation aspect is sketchy especially with Sabre. I love the series but it is not without it's faults. Zero is in fact a much darker series and having watched Bladeworks first I was a little surprised at the content of Zero. Had I watched in chronological order I'm not sure that I would be here declaring my devotion
Anyone privy to the release date for pending "Heaven's Feel II" dub? It's your day. Do as you wish with it. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6525 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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1. You're not a mod. Leave the moderation to us. So long as people follow forum rules they can post as they see fit. 2. Stating your opinions here in this thread on the merits of the two franchises would be appreciated. It is the customary and courteous thing to do. Normally, fishing threads like this are locked, but I'm curious to read what people have to say. For my part, I have to go to work now, but I'd like to give my own thoughts later in the day. Rambling edit (later in the day): To begin with I must admit that I haven't seen Lord El-Melloi II's Case Files (though I plan to in the next few weeks) so my comments are restricted to the original Fate / Stay Night TV series and Unlimited Blade Works film, Fate / Zero, the Unlimited Blade Works TV series and the two Heaven's Feel films. In essence I agree with what HyugaHinata wrote. I would add that, for me, a large part of why I prefer F/Z is that it has a largely adult cast, unlike F/SN, which focuses on school-aged characters. This simple move allows Gen Urobuchi to ramp up the sophistication of his thematic material. Then again, Urobuchi is a more coherent and more interesting writer than Kinoko Nasu. Given my attitude, it would make sense that I never warmed to Waver, as he appears in F/Z, even if he had an entertaining relationship with Rider and displayed considerable growth across the series. I viewed him as the link between a cast which was otherwise older and a mostly younger audience. Because of this I have some reservations about committing to Lord El-Melloi II's Case Files. Despite its shortcomings I have fond memories of watching the original F/SN TV series. A large part of that is due to my sentimental regard for something I watched early in my anime fandom. That said, even for its time the Studio Deen production was somewhat retrograde. Worse, Shirou is a chauvinistic dill. For me the appeal remains the comic seriousness of Sabre and, above all, the many charms of Rin Tohsaka, without whom the series would be a dead loss. Again it should come as no surprise that my favourite episode in the entire oeuvre is the episode 00 of the Unlimited Blade Works TV series, which gives us pure, undiluted Rin. Her cameo in F/ZN is, however, one of the weaker episodes from that series. All the series I've watched have issues in their portrayal of women. The original F/SN had Shirou's unbearable chauvinism, but it compensates by having strong six females as part of the master/servant pairings, two of whom are terrific, as I've said already. UBW's portrayal (both the film & especially the TV series) of its female characters in bondage is repulsive as is the TV series' sexualisation of the child Illya von Einzbern. Rin Tohsaka is again the saving grace. So much so that I actually enjoyed her affair with the otherwise dull Shirou (who is generally improved over the F/SN TV series). With F/Z only one of the 14 master / servant characters is female - albeit a terrific one in Sabre. Irisviel von Einzbern is interesting as a pseudo-master, but she is largely subordinate to Kiritisugu. The effect is to give F/Z a more masculine feel to it than other parts of the franchise. That's not a bad thing, thanks to the density of the themes and the interactions of the characters. I may be somewhat burnt out with the franchise. While the Heaven's Feel films are technically good, I'm not getting enthused by them. |
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Ronnie Hall
Posts: 8 |
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I wasn't even aware of The Case Files of Lord El-Melloi. I'm going to track that down today. I agree with you on the treatment of the female characters especially the child. I have to admit that I just kind of went on the ride and didn't even think about it but you're 100% correct on that observation. Unfortunately, I guess I'm just immune to it because it's so prevalent in so many anime
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