Forum - View topicANNCast - All-Star Supernerds
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Jrittmayer
Posts: 304 Location: New Jersey |
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Oh absolutely, its always fun and informative hearing about random obscure stuff in DAT BEAUTIFUL VOICE. |
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Nom De Plume De Fanboy
Subscriber
Exempt from Grammar Rules Posts: 612 Location: inland US west, pretty rural |
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Speaking of which, I had a really hard time hearing his really nice, but low, voice. If that wasn't just his phone connection, could something be done with the mixer/edit software to amp up his channel a bit, next time he's on? Pretty please? |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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That was his mic/connection; very little I could do, but I did what I could. |
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reanimator
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There are few things that got my attention while listening to the podcast.
One is Daryl Surat relying ANN encyclopedia for that Braiger question to Monkey Punch. I felt he could've used better reference materials for his question. Especially with obscure titles. I don't want to rely too much on ANN encyclopedia because it still has backlog of mistakes and assumptions which need to be corrected. In Anime production, famous artist works on least likely shows uncredited or under a pen name and most of us fan won't even know it. Even with internet, in-depth info on Japanese production in English language is very small. Since detailed behind-scene-materials are likely available in physical media in Japan, only the hardcore dedicated fans with Japanese skill can pull it off (Example: Starblazers.com). About the Noitamina doing Black Rock Shooter, it's not about the block going Moe. There is a serious economic reason for it. DVD sales in Japan is in decline and the Noitamina relied on DVD sales since its inception. Of course, those Noitamina titles haven't had decent toy line to back them up. Seriously, where is "Honey and Clover" toys? Has anyone heard of "Mononoke" toys? Koji Yamamoto, Noitamina producer, aware of the reality and I think he's trying to keep it alive through different venue. Since the Black Rock Shooter is a successful toy line, I think he is trying to profit from toy sale by adding "Noitamina brand" visual rather than declining DVD sale. |
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Jessica Hart
Posts: 219 |
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That sounds like carpetbombing an entire arbitrary concept Can you name some specific examples of characters you find bad? Good? It's impossible to make a point with such vague generalizations. The whole anti-moe thing just seems like that kind of American 'girl power' vibe that's ruined females here. Like unless she's that flawless 'always one ups the guys and gets the last word in' stereotype you see in every sitcom and every cartoon these days and the idea of giving a girl flaws and vulnerabilities is seen as sexist and offending. My Avatar is of a girl I'd say is that 'vulnerable, moe, needs protection' kinda thing.. she's also one of my favorite characters and I find her very interesting and compelling. I don't see how her being extremely insecure, vulnerable, and suicidal is sexist. I can think of a few girls I've met that applies to. But besides there's kinda of a flaw with this entire argument which is the fact 'moe' is only a single fraction of the medium of anime. American animation moves may be limited to princess flicks, but anime is hardly limited to 'moe'. Even if we agree 'moe is evil', that's like saying an entire cake is ruined because one of the strawberries is rotten. We have shounen, seinen, shoujo, josei, action, comedy, romance, drama, and tons of other stuff to use as examples.
Well if you say so... I think you're getting really worked up over a show you don't like, especially if you feel no one in the world should like it and your opinion is law.. kind of pointless to debate when such obvious and volatile bias is present that results in dismissing any counter argument without a chance at debate.
It's in the commentary for Avatar, and pretty obvious just from the show itself (since it borrows so much from anime). Heck, some Ben 10 characters cosplayed as Naruto character in one episode
Well 'creative differences' is the standard cooperate term that can mean pretty much anything (from a good healthy walking away to burning down the bridge behind her) so I guess we'll never really know
Wasn't Ariel the one who sold her voice and ability to talk for a pair of legs all for a guy she just met like an hour ago? Lilo's probably the only Disney female lead I like honestly, if only because I found the others so dang boring.
I agree.. that's a real shame. I think the most offensive example of this mentality was the American dub of Card Captor Sakura. They tried to rewrite the entire series and make the main character Li (and cut out like half the show and any episode he didn't appear in.. and only had a few snippits of those episodes as flashbacks of how she was a 'inexperienced loser before she met Li'. They tried to make Sakura second fiddle to someone else in her own show ... that's both funny and appalling
I don't really get the complaint, I'm afraid. It's bad because it's parodying/deconstructing magical girls, but rather than being aimed at little girls it's aimed at adults instead? I don't see how that equates to bad. Given the content, it seems more appropriate to be aimed at adults. It's like complaining a superhero deconstruction sucks because it's aimed at adults rather than 9 year old boys who watch Superfriends. Obviously it can't be aimed at little kids if it's going to take such a dark/realistic look at how it would actually play out in real life. Also, what I got out of Madoka was it was more of a 'realistic' approach to magical girl. Like, giving a girl a huge responsibility to fight an evil force wouldn't be the aforementioned Card Captor Sakura, where while there might be some dark moments it's mostly a fun and magical adventure. It takes a more 'dude, Luna and Artemis essentially recruited the Sailor Warriors as child soldiers. They're like 13, they don't know how to fight, holy crap, she just got killed, what the heck, this was an awful idea, who thought of using kids as warriors?!" It doesn't have to have some deeper meaning than that and try to change the industry or people's minds, some people just want to see a more darker/realistic take on the genre. Look at Narutaru, a similar show for the 'capture battling monsters' genre. A bunch of kids get pet Pokemonsters and what do they do? What you'd expect people to do with them: use them to help them steal stuff, kill people they don't like, rape girls since they can now get away with it, etc.. a few of the people are good enough to maybe try to help stop those others from abusing them, but it's 1 VS 100 more or less.. and it doesn't always work in their favor. It doesn't need to stand on a soapbox and say "Hey guys, Pokemon and Digimon sucks" it can just be for people who always wondered how it'd play out in the 'real world' like "Dude, if I had a Pokemon, I'd so show that bully at school a lesson" Entertainment. |
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invalidname
Contributor
Posts: 2444 Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
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Just got to the question about the "generations" of anime fans, and it's such a nice combination of self-serving and illogical that it's beyond charity for the guys to give it the consideration they do.
First off. His (could be "her", but really… "his") "G1" is pre-1995, "G2" is 2004 and beyond. So what do we make of someone who got into anime because of those first few Adult Swim shows in 2000 or so? Are they a lost generation? Second fish in this barrel: really, all pre-1995 fans are the same? So, we'll equate someone who got into Akira or caught the early buzz on Eva with, say, me, who remembers watching Kimba the White Lion in 1973 when I was 6? Think we're missing a generation or two in between. Third, the self-serving selection of good new shows: FMA, Haruhi, Baccano, and Durarara. Let's keep in mind that the latter two were not terribly successful in Japan (in a sense, we got Durarara instead of a second season of Baccano). And it's easy to cherry pick… we could just as easily pick the bottom of the recent barrel (say, Astarotte's Toy, KissXSis, Rio Ranbow Gate, and Oniichan no Koto… ). The guys rightly point out they're all fans of at least three of the four originally-cited shows, and Mike totally nails the idea that when you've watched a bunch of stuff, your tolerance for junk and cliché goes down and down. There are some genuine differences between the eras: we got fewer shows brought over back then, so we tended to get more wheat and less chaff. So it's hard to know if something as bad as KissXSis got made back then, because there'd be no way to market it in the US prior to the home video era. And granted: the modern era has more genres available: it's not all robots and ninjas. We missed out on stuff we'll probably never even know about (we know we're never getting "Rose of Versailles", but was there more good stuff like it?). Moé is even defensible in this view, in that the premise of shows that are about a guy's relationship with several girls is not something that's existed before, and has no apparent analogue in the West. I appreciate that it fills a gap. Still, it's very hard to find anything like a "filler arc" in old anime, and it's probably not a good sign that you can use the ANN encyclopedia search to seek incest comedies between 2000 and 2011 and get 13 hits. |
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Bonham
Posts: 419 Location: NYC |
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I've made it a habit of mine to avoid arguments involving moe. Those against frequently invoke a broad equivocation to lolicon, and those for moe seem incapable of realizing that depicting one-half of the human species as objects (or if this argument is made, there's a frequent retort that 2-D and 3-D isn't the same, which is dodging the argument and ignoring how history shows degrading stereotypes based on gender, race, etc. is linked with larger problems in society). People usually just want to adopt extremes and ignore what others have said, having already made up their minds and never wanting to change them. So, it's probably pointless of me to post this, but whatever.
Of course, the criticisms to deliberately moe-planned characterizations can still be made with this in mind. The overriding one as it relates to social concerns--and as much as some would like to pretend to, you cannot separate fiction from reality, because the former is in some way a reflection of the latter--is that these female characters are not actual girls with their own strengths and weaknesses in their own rights, but rather heavily idealized, romanticized pets. They give viewers the same feelings as those who watch cute cat/dog/bunny/penguin/llama videos. They're reduced to infantalized, cute objects. To be honest, what people enjoy on their own time is their business. If you like something, you like it; if you don't, you don't. I know arguments devoted to moe in the past have made me less rash than I was years ago to the hopelessly vague term, and I have no problems enjoying the "moe titles" that I do (Haruhi Suzumiya, Yotsuba&!, etc). But to dodge or underplay problems with trends and ideas in a medium of entertainment is not conducive for discussion. Furthermore, I don't like it when people point to how moe-oriented shows can be and are enjoyed by females. That doesn't invalidate any objections raised, and also doesn't take into account that people can enjoy things but still not approve of everything in them. I may love the Berserk manga, but will be the first one to admit that the way Miura depicts rape is reaaallllyyyy problematic. That kind of self-awareness is really important; otherwise, people will just talk past one another, gaining practically nothing from the conversation. |
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Anime World Order
Posts: 389 Location: Florida |
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Er, when exactly do you think my anecdote happened? I was talking about something that had happened at least six years ago, back when hardly anyone in America knew what the J-9 Trilogy even was (less so than now, even), let alone had access to copies or production information. Given that I can't read Japanese, can you perhaps point me to one of these better reference materials I should have used that would have been available to me in 2005 or thereabouts that I could have utilized to find out that was an error in his encyclopedia listing--for the record, that error is only noted as such now--than to just ask the guy "did you have any involvement with Baxinger?" during a Q&A? |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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I haven't been watching T&B for two reasons: 1) Viz doesn't stream to Canada and I'm too lazy to download shows weekly. 2) I actually don't like how that show looks at all. It just looks like a big neon coloured mess to me. Now, maybe I'd like it better actually watching the show but for now, it hasn't exactly encouraged me to check it out. I'll get to it eventually though.
-------------------------------- Yeah, you don't really need to be into Kenshin TV to like Trust and Betrayal. Hell, I don't think you even need to see Kenshin TV. -------------------------------- REDLINE!!!!!!! I'm beyond actually having anything to say here. I'm just boiling over with excitement. I don't want to pirate it and it's taking all my willpower to not do so. -------------------------------- I've said before: Scott Pilgrim was a marketing screw up. The trailers were terrible. They didn't at all communicate what the movie was actually about. I mean, literally, for someone not already familiar with the comic, you look at that trailer and have no idea what you'd be seeing in that movie. -------------------------------- Eh, I don't think Akira is that impenetrable. Or at least, it doesn't really matter that it is. Akira is just so kinetic and exciting that it can pretty much just be crazy and weird and you don't have to understand exactly what's going on to love it. -------------------------------- I'm really, really worried about noitaminA. Give or take a few exceptions, theirs are pretty much the only TV shows really worth watching from the last few years. It's definitely pretty worrying that they're moving more toward otaku stuff and perhaps even more worrying that the reason is possibly that they're not doing so well financially. -------------------------------- Eh, I don't know. I wouldn't say you're a fan just for watching it but yeah, certainly you're a fan of a show if you like it. You don't necessarily like everything you watch but if you do then you're a fan. Of course, I'd say there are degrees of being a fan. If you like something then you're a fan but the more into it you are the more of a fan you are. -------------------------------- Popular stuff I hate? Naussica. Sorry but I think that movie is a really, really lame, hypocritical, environmentalist's fantasy. Miyazaki is a great director and he went on to make great movies but this was a very awkward first step on his journey. Instead, go watch Princess Mononoke which is basically Naussica done well. -------------------------------- WAIT. SERIOUSLY? Funimation is actually going to put one of those two out? THAT IS AWESOME! I have spent just an unbelievable amount of time complaining about how Funimation isn't putting out those shows. I actually kinda hope it's Tatami at this point though. I mean, as much as I love Five Leaves and would like to have my own copy, I'm fine with watching it subtitled. Tatami Galaxy needs a dub though. I just cannot enjoy that show subtitled. But either way that's just awesome. -------------------------------- What about SEED? SEED is pretty much ideal I'd say for getting someone who isn't really into Gundam into Gundam. |
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Cheesecracker
Posts: 240 |
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Try as I have, I can't get past the judgement that Redline is fugly. The style, the designs(cars and people), I even don't like the color palette. My main complaint is the oppressive use of black, outlines, shadows...it's too much to me. If it had not been the case, I'm sure my feelings would have been much more positive.
I wish I hadn't fallen asleep, but if I recall there's a bit of a lull in the middle. I don't know how much it would have mattered, as the old joke goes: tomorrow I shall be sober but you will still be ugly. I was struggling with it from the beginning. If the art doesn't faze you then the only thing you need to be concerned with is if the hype has not elevated it to a relatively unattainable height. |
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Banden
Posts: 140 |
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I would counter-argue that what you just described here is more or less the definition of what a character in a work of fiction IS. Your comment about fiction being inseparable from reality ignores a critical point: Of course there is a connection, and it's relevant to explore critically, but there's a big difference between objectifying actual, living women, and female characters in a work of fiction. Characters are meant to be objectified. Male and female, moé and non-moé. They are not actual people with inherent value unto themselves. They are objects. They are piecemeal constructions of recognizable real-world characteristics, crafted specifically to convey some kind of literary message or concept. Fiction writing, in this way, is a process of objectification. I think this is something that we cannot ignore in these discussions. |
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asimpson2006
Posts: 3151 Location: USA |
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I have not watched more T&B because the first episode really did nothing for me. I mean yes it is different, but I could could get into it.
_________________________________________________________ Never seen Trust and Betrayal but good for the fans for being able to get it again. _________________________________________________________ Redline seems interesting so I will wait until it comes out before I watch it. _________________________________________________________ I do not see nothing wrong with noitaminA moving towards otaku stuff. Gotta do what you have to do to make money, plus I do not see anything wrong with otaku shows. _________________________________________________________ I see fandom in three main groups with the last group being split into two subs groups. The three groups are: casual fan, fan, and FAN. To me a casual fan is someone who watches or plays something every now and then but does not purchase it (example someone who plays video games at a friends house, but does not buy the game or have a game system.) A fan is someone who say watches a show on TV but does not buy the DVD or BD (my mom would be a good example of watching Grey's Anatomy on TV but does not buy the DVD's.) The FAN group breaks down into two groups purchasing FAN and Hardcore purchasing FAN. How I separate each subset is as follows. The purchasing fan buys the DVD or BD for the show but not the merchandise for the show. The hardcore purchasing FAN but not only the DVD or BD for the show, but also buys merchandise for the show (Example, someone buying the DVD's for the Gundam series, and someone buying the DVD's for Gundam along with the model kits.) ________________________________________________________ I do not think of anything popular that I have disliked. ________________________________________________________ Having never seen HOFL or TG I not have an interest if they get released or not, but if either of them do I am happy for the fans. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6525 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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How weird! It must be the REDLINE SLEEPING SYNDROME. I saw it at the cinema at the Reel Anime Festival here in Melbourne last year and struggled to stay awake also. The guy next to me was snoring while it was playing. At the end, the couple behind me must have been talking about him because the woman admitted to her partner that she also fell asleep. I'm struggling to understand the hype - it's an extremely boring movie. I saw Evangelion 2.0, Summer Wars and King of Thorn at that time and it was easily the weakest of the four. Even King of Thorn was more rewarding. |
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darkchibi07
Posts: 5469 |
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To be fair, there has been noitaminA series that has been fujoshi bait to some degree like for example Antique Bakery, No. 6, and soon UN-GO so aiming towards the otaku just balances it out. |
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nightjuan
Posts: 1473 |
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This was certainly an entertaining podcast, as expected. Going through every amusing moment, interesting observation or controversial statement would literally take me an hour or more, but right now I want to comment on a couple of aspects.
Mike disagreed about Gundam Unicorn being a good introduction to the property, because he had to explain things to other people while watching. I obviously can't speak for those involved nor for anyone else, but I really don't think that's so clear-cut nor a general rule. In fact, I suspect that maybe the real problem is one of information density. The first episode of Gundam Unicorn has no less than three different exposition scenes where they present key details about the greater context for the history of this fictional universe. Traditional Gundam fans wouldn't need to hear any of that, so I feel it's difficult to argue new viewers aren't being provided with at least the relevant parts of the context that they need in order to understand this specific story. Even the second and third episodes also do the same, though admittedly to a lesser extent. In other words, perhaps it is just too much data to fully digest or absorb in one sitting. Again, I don't know what concrete doubts or confusing moments emerged, nor do I know if Mike's acquaintances are fans of sci-fi or non-Gundam mecha shows in general. On a basic level, their own interests, individual circumstances and degrees of tolerance for sorting through the sheer amount of information involved may also play a role in explaining their momentary confusion or other reactions. Personally, even as a longtime Gundam fan myself I was able to further appreciate many nuances from the first episode of Unicorn in particular after a second viewing, including aspects related to the overarching narrative framework. In all fairness, I'd imagine that even new viewers would benefit from taking more than one look. Moving on to something completely different...Redline was indeed awesome. Great animation, good music, simple but effective characters and a whole lot of excellent action sequences. I didn't think the script was perfect, personally, but I'll openly agree that it was certainly better and a little more detailed than what I had been led to expect. All of which is ultimately a very good thing. And just because I couldn't resist...rather than providing a comprehensive reply, I'll merely say that non-mecha shows don't make it into Super Robot Wars Z2. After all, the biggest reason anyone ever plays those games is because they like seeing the robots involved beat the crap out of each other, period. I realize the underlying issue isn't as simple as that, in truth, but this certainly saves all of us the trouble of getting into an endless (though respectful) back-and-forth argument. |
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