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have you notice the quantity of posers trying to preach you that download anime is illegal" and "you should support the companies"

is just...every single time?

you have to wait to see a piracy related news when these people come to tell you the same line every time, I wonder if they copy-paste these lines

YES, WE KNOW !!!!! Piracy is wrong, buy dvds, don't download"

but then again, it might be some sort of satisfaction to write these lines every single time, It's like when you go to funerals and there is always a clown that say.... "and to think everyone will end up the same way"

I don't support any company, I just buy dvds for the sake of my own entertainment...if they go out of business tomorrow....who cares, I was entertained with their movies anyway...

You have a right to think what ever you want ichido reichan.Fine do not support a company or people who release your favorite type of material(weather it is a musician or otherwise).I personally do not care.
But remember when you put out material that is important to you that pays your bills then have people distrubute your material illegally so you do not get paid.You will not have future because people are ripping you off.It is fine to rip off other people but when it comes to your lively hood it will also happen to you.
While i have not lived a perfect life,far from it,i try my best.I expressed my opinion and i am done.

I agree with you, defintely...
thats why I don't work on movies or games, even though I buy the originals all the time...

Piracy is either for poor or uninterested people...

F.A.I.T.H wrote:

Second issue: Quality of anime. There have already been worthy mention of this, I believe. VCD and DVD visual quality from ODEX as compared to fansubbed anime from fansubbers was laughably inferior. It's practically the first time you would hear of inferior goods from official sources as compared to the 'pirated' sources. This isn't just a matter of 'convenience', as some have put regarding downloading of anime.

Allow me to illustrate this for the people whinging about how downloading anime is illegal.

Shii that is the funniest thing i've seen all week. It's amazing how people can go on and on about how downloading is illegal and stupid and you aren't supporuting- but as soon as something like this comes up its suddenly ok?

What happened to suppourting the company? What happened to fansubs being "evil" and ruining the industry? Is it fair to choose and pick a time and place where something is ok?

Last edited by Pete577 on Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

Doesnt seem right, the way they sue people. Usually, people download anime due to poor marketing in the area and high prices. I would side against Odex, if anything. Its odd. Both sides are wrong in a way, but Odex seems to be doing much more of a wrongdoing to get rid of the downloaders in the first place.

Its much like entrapment. It is made so easy to go and pickup a torrent of a favorite series, but then Odex comes knocking on your door, and a**r*pes you out of thousands of dollars- much more than the anime you downloaded is worth. Thats not how you solve your problems, Odex.

(Figured I should edit for all those kids out there Very Happy

)

mufurc wrote:

hikura wrote:

Answer me this then.This is not meant to be a mean question.So are you saying it is okay to steal?If you created some for of work(music,art or literature) and you found out that someone is illegally distrubting it or making copies of it you would not mind?That is the whole point of the court cases.

No, seems to me that the point this time is that Odex blamed fansub downloaders for its business problems, without realizing that the problem lay first and foremost in the inferior quality of its products and its nonexistant PR and marketing. Sure, downloading fansubs is illegal and not very nice toward the original creators and all that, but if you want people's money you first have to let them know you exist, then have to offer some value in return for their money. As I hear, most of Odex's products were of abysmal quality, and I don't blame people for choosing not to pay for them (if they were aware of their existence at all) but download the same stuff for free, in better quality. The law may be on Odex's side (or may not, as seen from this news post), but if what people say about them is true then they fail as a company with or without fansubs.

(But then, I'm not Singaporean, so I only know what's going on from blogs and news posts.)

Yes, I also believe that Odex is doing the same thing as Hollywood is. Hollywood is trying to sue it's customers,blaming pirates for the large drop in profits they are experiencing, while in reality it's more than likely the high ticket prices versus poor movie ideas compared to previous years.

About the names on the list, I had a feeling G.D.H and Toei would be on there as I saw those names pop up on Youtube more than a couple times on anime related videos that had been removed, but I don't see Sunrise. I know Bandai isn't that agressive, but their subsidiary Sunrise seems to like to protect there work with a vengeance, specifically Gundam. Very strange.

Kaioshin_Sama wrote:

Yes, I also believe that Odex is doing the same thing as Hollywood is. Hollywood is trying to sue it's customers,blaming pirates for the large drop in profits they are experiencing, while in reality it's more than likely the high ticket prices versus poor movie ideas compared to previous years.

This isn't comparable to Hollywood at all. Piracy in the anime industry is WAY more pronounced and more widespread an issue.

Most people see downloading Hollywood movies as straight-up theft, something illegal, but anime is apparently a "gray area" where the original copyright holders have no right to protect their product from being endlessly copied and given away for free online.

No matter how you slice it, they have a right to protect their product and punish those who are breaking the law. Complain about the law, I guess, but they're not doing anything wrong by attempting to stop people from taking their product for free without permission.

I'm not sure if this has been noted on this forum or not. I'll like to share it with everyone here.

Here's a report regarding the director of Odex, Stephen Sing.

http://newpaper.asia1.com/printfriendly/0,4136,138843,00.html

I'll like to highlight some points:

Quote:

Worried for his safety, Mr Sing made a police report.

'I'll just leave it to the police,' he told The New Paper yesterday.

'I'd rather not engage (the forum members), because they're not going to react very well to whatever I have to say.'

Two months ago, after a 'particularly bad experience with a downloader who had a bad attitude', Mr Sing said he went on an online forum and made some comments which were perceived as gloating.

The comment, posted on the SCORD forum (aseancord.idasia.org) under his online monicker, xysing, read: 'Hahahahah! I double-6-ed so many downloaders. Serve (sic) them right!'

'Double-6' is a gaming term which means hitting or striking an opponent.

When asked about his posts, he appears to lie...

Quote:

Mr Sing said he was shocked that his comment on the forum had sparked off such a huge reaction.

He said: 'I wrote that comment almost two months ago, so when my friend told me what was happening, I couldn't even remember it.'

Now, I'll take you to the actual thread where his posts can be found.

http://aseancord.idasia.org/viewtopic.php?t=151&highlight=

Quote:

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:38 am

Hahahahah! I double-6-ed so many downloaders~ serve them right!

(o.o)y

Noticed the date discrepancies? O.o
The article was published in the newspapers on 16 Aug 2007.

You might ask, what's the purpose of posting all this up? It's not to shame Stephen Sing. It just goes to show how suspicious the nature of work and the integrity of the staff of Odex.

To quote from the news article:

Quote:

A forum posting, by SeCt0r7, said: 'To give out such comments he is simply gloating over other (sic) misfortune... May the whole Singapore online community and anime lovers unite and turn the tide against Odex.'

Hope this falls through.

Zac wrote:

This isn't comparable to Hollywood at all. Piracy in the anime industry is WAY more pronounced and more widespread an issue.

You should come to Mexico, to see what kind of a problem is Hollywood Piracy. I understand that in the US, Hollywood Piracy is not a really big deal, but in some other countries is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, piracy market.

cat_clan wrote:

Zac wrote:

This isn't comparable to Hollywood at all. Piracy in the anime industry is WAY more pronounced and more widespread an issue.

You should come to Mexico, to see what kind of a problem is Hollywood Piracy. I understand that in the US, Hollywood Piracy is not a really big deal, but in some other countries is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, piracy market.

Hence why it's more aggressively pursued in countries like China where it is a big problem.

Zac wrote:

Hence why it's more aggressively pursued in countries like China where it is a big problem.

It's more aggressively pursued in China because it's a totalitarian state - funny that companies from the "land of the free" have no problem in cosying up with communist dictators. BTW, it's interesting to note Microsoft's response to the rampant software piracy going on there - they cut their prices.

Valiant wrote:

Quote:

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:38 am

Hahahahah! I double-6-ed so many downloaders~ serve them right!

(o.o)y

I had heard about this before, but it makes me think about something.

WHY ISN'T ODEX TARGETING THE FANSUBBERS?

It makes a lot more sense to go after the source of the problem rather than prosecuting the people that download. Any idiot can realize that if there were no groups to make the fansubs, that there would be no choice but to buy the dvds/watch the stuff on television. Maybe I'm being suspicious here, but this seems to me like Odex is trying to profit off fansubs, and not trying to eliminate the problem of fansubs.

If they really wanted people to buy their products and not watch fansubs, then wouldn't they put more effort into the quality of their work? Wouldn't they try a little thing called advertising? I'm really not seeing any effort by Odex at all to try and stop people from watching fansubs; all I see is an attempt to capitalize off piracy.

A counter argument would be that they're just trying to scare the fansub community into stopping, but in that case I think that most people would just watch fansubs streamed off a website instead of downloading. Then there's still the fact that a lot of people watch fansubs; Odex doesn't have the funds or the manpower to stop them all. They might be able to do some damage to the fansubbers, but as I said before, there's no evidence of that.

Seriously though, if anyone has evidence that Odex is trying to go after fansubbers then please, prove me wrong.

ultrapostman wrote:

Valiant wrote:

Quote:

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:38 am

Hahahahah! I double-6-ed so many downloaders~ serve them right!

(o.o)y

I had heard about this before, but it makes me think about something.

WHY ISN'T ODEX TARGETING THE FANSUBBERS?

It makes a lot more sense to go after the source of the problem rather than prosecuting the people that download. Any idiot can realize that if there were no groups to make the fansubs, that there would be no choice but to buy the dvds/watch the stuff on television. Maybe I'm being suspicious here, but this seems to me like Odex is trying to profit off fansubs, and not trying to eliminate the problem of fansubs.

If they really wanted people to buy their products and not watch fansubs, then wouldn't they put more effort into the quality of their work? Wouldn't they try a little thing called advertising? I'm really not seeing any effort by Odex at all to try and stop people from watching fansubs; all I see is an attempt to capitalize off piracy.

A counter argument would be that they're just trying to scare the fansub community into stopping, but in that case I think that most people would just watch fansubs streamed off a website instead of downloading. Then there's still the fact that a lot of people watch fansubs; Odex doesn't have the funds or the manpower to stop them all. They might be able to do some damage to the fansubbers, but as I said before, there's no evidence of that.

Seriously though, if anyone has evidence that Odex is trying to go after fansubbers then please, prove me wrong.

Of the 600 or so replies I got to the question I asked in Answerman about "what would it take to get you to stop downloading fansubs", roughly 50 percent of them included something about how all it would really take is any sort of negative consequence. If they thought they might actually get in trouble for doing it, they'd stop.

It's a compelling argument. I'm not saying what Odex is doing (or rather how they're going about doing it) is "right" but I'm not going to fault the Japanese copyright holders for attempting to actually do something about the wholesale piracy of their property.

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