Forum - View topicTokyopop Initial D thoughts...
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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I really have to agree with LordByronius here... I mean, it's Initial D. It isn't art. It isn't even good commercial art. It's just pap desgined to take money from riceboys (for those who aren't familiar with this term, it refers to people who spend vast amounts of cash tricking out Hondas.) and wannabes alike. If they were putting shorts on David or a tee-shirt on Venus, yeah, you'd better believe I'd be protesting. But what they're doing is taking a commercial property from Japan designed to take money from Japanese people and turning it in to something that will take money from Americans. Changing the names of characters in a manga about racing cars isn't some kind of travesty.. it's business. Of course, it doesn't help that I think watching paint dry is more interesting than Initial D, but this is akin to complaining about the edits made to Dragonball.. it's a toy commercial in Japan, it's a toy commercial here. Just because you can't see the complete, unedited toy commercial on TV in America is no reason to whine and complain.
-Zac |
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midori_kou
Posts: 1 |
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Okay, after reading that letter from TokyoPop, they did not even acknowledge what made it popular in the first place.
One thing, they should not change the tofu shop to a pizza shop; that defeats the purpose why Takumi drives with a cup of water all the time. If he was to be a pizza deliver, it's pretty useless to have the cup there. Also, if they were to Americanized Takumi's driving sytle (ie: Takumi driving since he was in middle school and getting his license when he was 18.), it would not make any sense since here in the US, a person can start driving when he become 15-16. Then there are the name alterations. I find it offending in today's society that Americans have no tolerance for other cultures and are not open to use foriegn names. Also, it does not respect the original creator of Initial D if they were to take all the Japanese culture out. In a way, we are plagurizing the creators work and remaking it as our own, as well as taking full credit. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10420 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Well, no. You could accuse them of doing the exact opposite. Taking someone else's peiece of work, making changes to it and presenting it as the original. When dealing with words, this is called a "misquote" and is no less serious than plagiarism. Most Universities list it right along with Plagiarism or as a subtext of plagiarism. A misquote is when you take one person's original work, midify it in some way and present it as original. It is very debatable how the claim would hold up against Tokyopop. They have to their credit the fact that they have listed the changes in the back of volume 2 and in their letter, yet against them they have the words "100% Authentic Manga" printed on the cover. Could those words be taken as a claim to being 100% unaltered? Questionable... Last edited by Tempest on Mon Jul 15, 2002 1:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ramen
 Posts: 346 Location: San Jose |
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I'll admit to liking Initial D. It was a guilty pleasure of mine. I liked the music, the flashy CG cars were cool, the races were addiciting, the little titdbits of info gleaned about cars and engines and turbos, etc, were interesting. The plot ... wait, what plot?
 Yes, what little plot there was was just used as a device to link all the races together. A friend of mine dubbed it Initial Z becuase it's just Dragonball Z with cars!  Frankly, when I heard about the manga, my first impression was that it couldn't be very good. All the things I liked about the series would be missing! hehe
Saying that, I have to agree that it's not a travisty that the manga is going to be edited. Yes, they probably shouldn't market it as 100% manga if it's not, but oh well. On principle, I hope that TokyoPop does release an unedited version of the manga because that would be nice thing to do, but I'm not going to complain if they don't. Heck, I could be complaining alot already becuase they haven't brought over the Rurouni Kenshin manga yet, but that's a different story  . If you really need to see the unedited version, go find a fansc... er, um... get a Japanese friend and translate the original manga (which you have bought, by the way  ). That's about as unedited as you can get!
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GATSU
Posts: 15307 |
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"Maybe if you gave the title a chance BEFORE jumping on the anti-Tokyopop bandwagon?"
Exactly. TP gets way too much hate, when they were one of the first companies to push competitive pricing for the hottest manga. They also helped sponsor the subtitled Laputa screening at the 2000 AFI, for which I'm eternally grateful. |
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cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
 Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
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Yup! And, buying manga is *REALLY* inexpensive compared to anime. ;) *Cookie pokes the people who say anime is too expensive* Heck, import manga is sometimes even cheaper than domestic.. I picked up 6 volumes of Hikaru no Go manga at AX for $33 (no last-day discounts). That's what i'd pay for 3 tokyopop manga (which I also happened to buy quite a few of...) Either way, that's a pretty good deal when compared to 1 DVD for $25-30. (Tho for the best prices, you should go right to Japan. so... much... manga. :D~~~~~ although I'd wait for now until the yen:dollar exchange goes back towards 150 yen to the dollar before going just for a shopping trip. (It shot up to 135 for my trip to Japan... and then has been dropping ever since. Coincidence? I think not!) |
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Godzilla128
Posts: 1 Location: Las Vegas, NV |
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Let's pretend for a second here, let's pretend that this is not Initial D, because the fact that it's Initial D is really beside the point in this matter. Let's say that it is your favorite show and you have been eagerly awaiting it's American release for a good long while now, and when it finally arrives, you find it's been edited. Even if in the slightest, you would be disappointed, don't try to hide it.
Saying that "it's not a big deal" just because it's initial D, a show that you just so happen to not be too terribly fond of, is irrational and idiotic. This is Anime and it's being edited, last time I checked we were trying to stop them from doing that. I like Initial D, i do. I saw the fansubs a year ago and I was hooked (the show get's much better as it goes on, trust me ^_^) and now I wanted badly to read the manga just because the show was so great. And now this happens. To tell you the truth, it's not the fact that they edited it that annoys me, it's the fact that they didn't give us a choice; it's the edit or nothing for us. When there are 2 versions, one unedited and one "americanized", I couldn't care less what they do to the edited version, I'd hand them an Axe and say "go to town boys!" because I would know that I wouldn't be stuck with what they had created. I hope and pray that they release an unedited version down the road because that would patch things up nicely for me ^_^. Oh, and for you guys telling us about "how much worse it was in the 80's", so what? I personally don't care what standards the industry had for anime back then because it was TWENTY FREAKIN' YEARS AGO. Times have changed and we have much higher expectations now, and I for one expect these standards to be upheld to the highest possible degree, whether it's Initial D or not. |
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist
 Posts: 861 Location: Philippe for America! He is five. |
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History shows AGAIN AND AGAIN how nature points out the folly of MEEENNNNNN.... Heh heh. Great song. Great band.
Godzilla: This sort of editing would NOT apply to anything else besides Initial D. Let's face it, Initial D is being pushed out on TV because of the success of Fast and the Furious at the box office. That's it. I don't think network executives wouldn't pick up an arty show like, say, Utena and change the the characters' names to Lucy and George and such because even with the edits the show would be unmarketable. Tokyopop has found a thriving demographic for this particular title and they want to make sure they get the financial backing from licensors in order to reach that demographic, and make lots and lots of money in the process. If you think TP is "ignoring the fans" by changing names and making tofu=pizza, well, you're right; I doubt TP had hardcore anime fans on their minds when they spent the loads and loads of money to license the manga and TV show. And I don't really blame them. So, yeah. Pick up the import manga, I'm sure you can get it translated one way or another. Although I'm sure the story in Initial D makes just as much sense whether you read the word balloons or not. |
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Cassandra
 Posts: 1356 Location: Birdsboro, PA |
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Actually, I would be quite happy to get it at all. I'm a big Sailor Moon fan...and ya know what, I knew it was edited before I started watching it...and ya know what...I was HAPPY to get it because otherwise I wouldn't be seeing it at all. And I really don't get people fussing over the nicknames...I can understand Tempest's "100% manga" gripe...because it's not 100%. But I wouldn't be crying to anyone who would listen because a few names were changed and a few things were edited out. (It's almost as bad as the purists crying about the sex scenes edited out of Kite...when even the director has said that the edited version is better.) |
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danbeck
Posts: 13 |
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I would like to point out that I'm not advocating piracy. I have been able to get scans of Love Hina, Chobits and Initial D for some time, but I've been waiting because 1) I wanted to read it in paper, 2) I like to own a copies of things that I really enjoy, 3) I want to support American manga distributors. I've already purchased volume one of Initial D and I was very pleased with what I got. I just won't be buying any more volumes of Inital D unless they quit using the Americanized names.
In any case... the manga scans that are available are the same thing that fansubbers do. No need to get on your high horse about fansubs/manga scanners.
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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I'm not necessarily a big fan of Initial D, and aside from the editors poigniant comments on the falseness of the "100% authentic" label, I'm not overly concerned about the professed edits. The only problem I have with this announcement is this excerpt from the letter:
THis bugs me because many people enjoy anime/manga SPECIFICALLY because it is not written to "talk down to" them. Many people enjoy that it is targetted to an older audience. To think otherwise is simply to buy into the ingrained societal myth that the American audience only believes that animation and "comics" are for children. As long as that mentality is true, we'll never have our own "Initial D"s and these types of edits will always be deemed "necessary". I personally don't object to the changes they're making, I only dispute their reasoning. |
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danbeck
Posts: 13 |
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Wow... I just took a look at ANN this morning to see what was up in the news and I noticed that one of the staff had written an article relating to my post/rant. I really didn't realize that my original post would get so many replies and attention from the front page, I just wanted to vent at what I felt was Tokyopop really dropping the ball on this issue.
After reading over it a bit... it seems that I was pretty harsh and sarcastic. I wouldn't change a thing about it though, nor the way I was feeling at the moment. I just wanted to follow up in response to some of the replies here. Initial D is important to a lot of people. If you don't like the story, or don't care for X aspect of the anime/manga, that's your prerogative, but please don't berate others here for how they feel. I, and I feel that others also, do not want to buy an edited version of Inital D. Especially such a large edit as completely changing the characters names. A persons name is an important thing that uniquely identifies that individual. When you have some person, be it a studio exec or a janitor at Tokyopop, changing the names of characters, it's a serious issue and really changes the dynamic of the characters and story. We aren't taking it lightly and I for one am going to let Tokyopop know how I feel with my dollars. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15307 |
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Gojira128(I'd use Godzilla, but apparently, you prefer the literal Japanese pronunciation.):
"Saying that "it's not a big deal" just because it's initial D, a show that you just so happen to not be too terribly fond of, is irrational and idiotic." Well I don't think it's a big deal when it comes to Pokemon clones such as Hamtaro and Medabots. "This is Anime and it's being edited, last time I checked we were trying to stop them from doing that." Actually, it's the manga. And a series like that would probably need an anime to succeed anyway. "To tell you the truth, it's not the fact that they edited it that annoys me, it's the fact that they didn't give us a choice; it's the edit or nothing for us." Viz has been doing that for years, and charging us a lot more for it. "Times have changed and we have much higher expectations now," Even if Tokyopop didn't make those edits, you'd still be unsatisfied that the anime didn't have DTS or an anamorphic transfer or whatever you ************ feel is your God-given right. [EDITOR: EXPLETIVE REMOVED, READ THE RULES GATSU. YOUR COULD EASILLY HAVE MADE YOUR POINT WITHOUT THE INSULT.] Byron: "If you think TP is "ignoring the fans" by changing names and making tofu=pizza, well, you're right" As I said earlier, manga's already edited in Japan anyway. When you make an anime adaptation, you tone down the violence/sex of the manga(which might've only been included to sell more books, not because the author wanted it)so you reach a wider audience. Heero: "THis bugs me because many people enjoy anime/manga SPECIFICALLY because it is not written to "talk down to" them." What fantasy world are YOU living in?! Have you SEEN most of the stuff coming from the Japanese Jump alone?! If it's not T&A, it's gratuitous violence. Not that I have a problem with it, but I'm not going to get on my high horse and say that Japanese media is somehow culturally superior than American media because you can get away with more mature content. The Japanese pander just as much as American comic artists/animators. A film like Perfect Blue or Honneamise is a rarity over there, while anime like DBZ or Gundam's a dime a dozen. "Many people enjoy that it is targetted to an older audience." Um, no, Initial D is probably just as likely to be targetted to young boys in Japan as it is here. They just might throw in more graphic material to get an older audience interested, but the fact of the matter is the publishers want the kids to buy everything first. |
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Jlbkwrm
Old Regular
Posts: 94 |
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I won't be buying the Initial D manga. Whatever moderate interest I had in the title is now gone.
I don't buy edited product (if I know it's edited; I cannot describe how pissed I was that Media Blasters edited Kite and then didn't say word one about it). Simple policy. I don't care what it is; if it's edited, I won't buy it. There's too much worthwhile undedited product I could be purchasing. The rest seems irrelevant. So, it's not high art. I still refuse to put money towards supporting an asinine policy. Releasing only a dumbed-down, edited version of the Initial D manga is a bad decision on TOKYOPOP's part. Dual versions? Okay by me. Edit-or-nothing? No way, man. American manga is expensive enough already; like I need to spend more money for less of the content. Of course, I also refuse to buy any non-OAR DVDs. I get the feeling I'm in the very, very tiny minority. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Please don't ascribe motives to my comments. I'm NOT claiming that Japanese media is overall culturally superior to American. I'm asking how much animation is made in the US specifically targetted to avyone over 18? How much in Japan? I think you'll see the numbers lean more heavily to Japan. Does this mean Japan is "better" than the US? No, it means there's a wider diversity of subject matter. It means you could potentially pick something up with the depth of a Perfect Blue, that doesn't need singing animals or (at worst) a PG rating to be made. Do the Japanese publishers pander to a wider market? Absolutely. Let me show you the latest volume of "Afternoon" and lets see all the "T&A" they could cram in there, but then let's see what else is in there. Let's look at manga and anime that gives a "day in the life" of a corporate worker. I'm saying that as a MEDIUM, in Japan manga is given much wider berth. And as long as the major publishers of the medium, people who say they WANT to be in tune with the fans of the genre, can't even accept that maybe there's a wider market beyond teens and BELOW, then no one else is going to assume that even the fanbase is there, let alone anyone else. I wasn't talking specifically about Initial D, as I said I don't feel greatly threatened by the changes to Initial D. No, I was disheartened instead by TokyoPop's comment (FROM TOKYOPOP, not from me) that they are targetting a younger audience than the original audience the manga was made for. As long as companies like TokyoPop who ARE willing to buy the property (and thus obviously see potential in it) only believe that the younger sets will buy it and the older sets will overlook it "out of hand", that's exactly what will happen. Like I SAID the substance of the edits doesn't bother me whatsoever, nor does the choice of material to edit (Initial D) what bothers me IS their stated reason for doing it. And I quoted it to show that it came SPECIFICALLY FROM TokyoPop, not conjecture on my part. |
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