View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
|
GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15309
|
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:34 am
|
|
|
Give up, Shogakukkan. You're just embarassing yourself, and probably only doing it for the publicity anyway.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tondog38
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 89
|
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:30 pm
|
|
|
Albright wrote: |
Erufu wrote: | Wow... it must be a conservative Republican thing to rip off anime. |
As a conservative Republican, I respectfully enquire as to what exactly I have to do with "ripping off" anime. |
Same here!
So what? This whole FCC site thing is a non-issue. Face it, you guys are the only group of people who [Care] about it.
[edited for swearing - t]
|
Back to top |
|
|
Haiseikoh 1973
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
Posts: 1590
Location: Waiting for the Japanese 1000 Gunieas.
|
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:34 pm
|
|
|
Tondog38 wrote: |
Albright wrote: |
Erufu wrote: | Wow... it must be a conservative Republican thing to rip off anime. |
As a conservative Republican, I respectfully enquire as to what exactly I have to do with "ripping off" anime. |
Same here!
So what? This whole FCC site thing is a non-issue. Face it, you guys are the only group of people who give a shit about it. |
With the Trigun/Yu-Gi-Oh "racist" online thing, that was a GOP thing. FCC wise, I think it's more of a department thing than a GOP thing.
So technically, the GOP ripped off Trigun and Yu-Gi-Oh and the FCC as an entity ripped off Doreamon.
Oh, and don't swear. There are little kiddies on this board numbnuts.
|
Back to top |
|
|
AnimeHeretic
Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 179
|
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:53 pm
|
|
|
GATSU wrote: | Give up, Shogakukkan. You're just embarassing yourself, and probably only doing it for the publicity anyway. |
I'd agree. It might be a drawn out case, but I think they'd lose, simply because someone could show that the differences could be seen as coincidental. It's not as if Doreamon has any market over here and exploitation was done for fame or money.
|
Back to top |
|
|
AnimeHeretic
Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 179
|
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:06 pm
|
|
|
And just a thought to consider-- did anyone notice how much the snowman on the main ANN page looks like Piro from MegaTokyo? Does Fredart have the right to sue ANN? Or do we acknowledge that some things look similar without being deliberate ripoffs...?
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nagisa
Moderator
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 6128
Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh
|
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:32 pm
|
|
|
AnimeHeretic wrote: | And just a thought to consider-- did anyone notice how much the snowman on the main ANN page looks like Piro from MegaTokyo? |
...I'm seeing Jadress, I'm sorry.
|
Back to top |
|
|
minakichan
|
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:44 pm
|
|
|
O...K...I see no resemblance at all...
One of us is suffering from a New Year's hangover...
Fujiko Pro, I believe, has sent a "request" to remove the evil-cat. Most likely, there is no way in hell that there will be any legal action over this at all.
And just because one site decides to be a #%@#^ and rip people off doesn't mean that all others who have anything in common with them are the same.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dagwood
Joined: 12 Dec 2004
Posts: 222
|
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:27 am
|
|
|
Unfortunantly while writing my last post my computer froze, in fact I've had so many problems with it, I've spent an hour trying to post this. I'm to lazy to do it again and again, so I shall summarize.
It's a matter of coincidence (my two cents), but I wouldn't be suprised if the FCC really ripped them off. Anyway, the fact that the FCC has completely ignored Shogakukan Production's complaint ticks me off! It's been how long now? They could at least apologize!
Quote: | You ought to decide if this is an anime forum or a political forum. |
Completely political. (well mostly)
|
Back to top |
|
|
GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15309
|
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:57 am
|
|
|
Even if the FCC did rip off Doraemon, they're not making any money hosting the site, since its essentially a public service for parents worried about their children looking at porn sites, so it's just petty greed on the part of Shogakukkan and nothing more, since I seriously doubt that, if Doraemon were to get a N. American release, that its potential sales would be diminished, the reason being that the few people who couldn't tell the difference between either mascot wouldn't be interested in Doraemon anyway. In actuality, it would just be bad PR for Shogakukkan and Viz, because parents who are trying to "save the children" from the "horrors" of porn might consider boycotting their products if the FCC is forced to take down or re-design their site as part of any possible settlement.
|
Back to top |
|
|
AnimeHeretic
Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 179
|
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:10 am
|
|
|
minakichan wrote: | O...K...I see no resemblance at all...
|
minakichan wrote: | And just because one site decides to be a #%@#^ and rip people off doesn't mean that all others who have anything in common with them are the same. |
... and the FCC sees no resemblance to Doremon. Just because people see resemblances doesn't make them deliberate infringements. That was my point
It all reminds me of Nadia vs Atlantis. Totally superficial resemblances that could be explained by coincidence, yet half the anime fans in America were screaming that Disney plagarized Gainax.
|
Back to top |
|
|
s_j
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 162
|
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:27 am
|
|
|
Whether the FCC is making money off of it is irrelevant. I also don't think Shogakkukan is doing this for a quick buck. Doraemon is a Japanese icon, so their motivation is probably quite similar to Osamu Tezuka's family during the whole Lion King fracas.
Also, this issue is not about copyright, but trademark. The two caricatures do not have to be exactly alike to be infringing. Hypothetically, if Doraemon were released in the U.S., are these two characters similar-looking enough that some people may confuse FCC's Broadband as an endorsement from Shogakkukan? If that answer is yes, then it is trademark infringement, and, unlike copyright, Shogakkukan is legally obligated to defend it. Whether it was deliberate or not is irrelevant, unlike copyright.
As for forcing FCC to take their site offline...it's only an image. They can fix such a problem in seconds without making any changes to the site, really.
|
Back to top |
|
|
GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15309
|
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:09 am
|
|
|
Quote: | I also don't think Shogakkukan is doing this for a quick buck. Doraemon is a Japanese icon, so their motivation is probably quite similar to Osamu Tezuka's family during the whole Lion King fracas. |
Tezuka was an artist and Shogakukkan is a corporate entity. The real creators of Doraemon split a long time ago, and one of them passed away. So the only one speaking against the FCC is Shogakukkan, while manga artists and Tezuka's family were the ones complaining about Disney.
Quote: | Also, this issue is not about copyright, but trademark. The two caricatures do not have to be exactly alike to be infringing. Hypothetically, if Doraemon were released in the U.S., are these two characters similar-looking enough that some people may confuse FCC's Broadband as an endorsement from Shogakkukan? |
I'd say "no". But once again, even if that did happen, Shogakukkan's bottom line wouldn't be hurt by the confusion, and might in fact be helped.
Quote: | As for forcing FCC to take their site offline...it's only an image. They can fix such a problem in seconds without making any changes to the site, really. |
True, but they might shutting it down to alleviate whatever costs are needed to pay off Shogakukkan.
|
Back to top |
|
|
AnimeHeretic
Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 179
|
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:12 am
|
|
|
The problem then becomes where one draws the line. There are MANY elements in anime that could be assumed to have been taken from American icons using the argument of being required to defend trademarks. Does KFC sue everytime someone puts a Col. Sanders in the background of a comedy anime? Does McDonalds sue every time they put a misshapen "M" in the background of an anime? These happen a lot in anime. The words are slightly edited, but they're still made to resemble the franchise trademarks.
The FCC may or may not have heard of Doremon when they made this mascot. But can the Japanese prove they did infringe? This is a series that has never been aired in America, nor have the manga been published.
In writing novels. the law recognizes something called "accidental infringement." If someone creates something similar to a work you do, but it seems unlikely that it could have been stolen, the accidental infringer is not accountable. This is why when someone sued JK Rowlings with the claim that she stole the name "Muggles", the case got tossed.
If they want to take this seriously enough to go to court, it is their prerogative to do so, but they have to prove that the FCC was trying to capitalize on their product. If they can, then fine-- it *should* be pulled then. But giiven that this cat was a mascot for a site aimed at kids who probably never heard of Doremon, I think they'll have a hard time proving it.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Haiseikoh 1973
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
Posts: 1590
Location: Waiting for the Japanese 1000 Gunieas.
|
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:23 am
|
|
|
AnimeHeretic wrote: | The problem then becomes where one draws the line. There are MANY elements in anime that could be assumed to have been taken from American icons using the argument of being required to defend trademarks. Does KFC sue everytime someone puts a Col. Sanders in the background of a comedy anime? Does McDonalds sue every time they put a misshapen "M" in the background of an anime? These happen a lot in anime. The words are slightly edited, but they're still made to resemble the franchise trademarks.
|
You answered your own question without even knowing it.
Simply put, Parody is a protected form of Speech.
|
Back to top |
|
|
AnimeHeretic
Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 179
|
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:42 am
|
|
|
Haiseikoh 1973 wrote: |
AnimeHeretic wrote: | The problem then becomes where one draws the line. There are MANY elements in anime that could be assumed to have been taken from American icons using the argument of being required to defend trademarks. Does KFC sue everytime someone puts a Col. Sanders in the background of a comedy anime? Does McDonalds sue every time they put a misshapen "M" in the background of an anime? These happen a lot in anime. The words are slightly edited, but they're still made to resemble the franchise trademarks.
|
You answered your own question without even knowing it.
Simply put, Parody is a protected form of Speech. |
You missed the point. Obviously, parody is protected (though some come close to crossing lines-- I believe some have successfully sued) and we covered that ground several times in the thread already, but those examples ARE NOT parodies. They're making use of famous icons in the background, edited to avoid lawsuits. If the similarities between Doremon and Broadband are enough to justify a lawsuit, then KFC/McDonalds have even stronger grounds.
However, from what I can tell, they have no plans to, so maybe the Doremon case should be dropped as well.
|
Back to top |
|
|
|