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Key
Moderator
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18192
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:41 pm
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I didn't have a problem at all with the characterization of the mother, as I didn't find her to be a caricature or in any way exaggerated. In the States we would say that she needs counseling to get over how she's projecting her bitterness over her failed marriage onto Sayu (who is the tangible representation of that failure in her eyes), and she's clearly prioritizing image over her daughter's feelings, and her behavior here isn't out of line with either of those. When those feelings have been piling up for 16 years, of course she's not going to handle being backed into a corner about it all that well. That doesn't excuse her behavior towards Sayu one bit, but I felt the writing did a sufficient job of establishing where she's coming from.
I will agree that the scene involving Yoshida's internalizing was awkwardly-handled; it was the weak point of the episode for me. I also agree that the final decision reached about Sayu's disposition probably isn't the healthiest of options. However, it does allow the mother to save face publicly while also getting her off Sayu's case privately, which seems like a very Japanese way to handle things. Definitely a lot of room for that to fall apart, but Sayu is a much stronger person now and this time she has a support network to fall back on if things get too bad again.
In short, both the series and this episode definitely has its flaws, but I don't find the flaws to be overwhelming the positive sides of the character developments and dynamics the way it seems to be for many commentators.
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Cryten
Joined: 19 Jan 2019
Posts: 987
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:09 pm
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I've seen people act like that when confronted with their faults. Where the blame for them is everyone who wronged them both imagined and real. Where they claim to have to act the way they do in response to the real world while ignoring the damage their "justified" actions inflict. Where the emotional and mental injuries they themselves hold form the basis for hatred of those outside of them.
What isnt realistic is that the show is aiming for a happy ending in a scenario that generally perpetuates abuse. Where the abuser has all the rights in law and questioning that is a violation of their privacy. As stated the best scenario is support from the other family if you lucky enough to have it. Because you dont resolve deep seated issues with 1 episode of ideals. But years of painful change.
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b-dragon
Joined: 21 Apr 2021
Posts: 452
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:30 pm
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Piglet the Grate wrote: |
I do not know about Japan, but in many countries a request for commitment could be filed, there would be a mandatory psychiatric evaluation, and a judge would decide her fate. Similarly, for a court to take Sayu away from her would only require a preponderance of the evidence and not evidence beyond reasonable doubt. And the prime evidence would be testimony by Sayu and a psychiatric evaluation to evaluate her level of emotional damage.
The mother would be foolish to go to the police, since it would put her bad behavior out into public, and Issa would likely not only hire a team of expensive lawyers for Yoshida's defense, but also be a character witness for the defense. A jury would at worst give Yoshida the minimum required penalty if they could not find any possible way to acquit, and the mother's reputation would be permanently ruined. |
Unless you are familiar with Japanese mental health and family law, I can't help but find that doubtful. Having filed a few myself, I can only imagine an IVC- Involuntary Commitment- is a non-starter. The evidence wouldn't get her committed in my state (no clear threat to life= no judge will sign off on the thing.) Similar for getting Sayu removed from the home: if contested, I think you misjudge how likely Sayu is to be removed. I doubt she would be stateside. Granted, again, I'm not precisely super familiar with Japanese law, just projecting from my professional experiences.
As for any court situation- Issa won't do anything helpful if it involves directly working against his mother. He's not done so before, despite knowing the circumstances. I do agree that court is mostly an empty threat, as it would put more focus on mother- and being the target of local gossip is definitely a thing to be avoided in her head.
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Covnam
Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 3651
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:15 pm
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This episode felt way too soap opera-y to me (like the table smacks). Considering how over the top the mother was you'd have to wonder how Issa turned out (seemingly) so well. The two don't seem to be that far apart (~5 years or so?)...
The inner monologue bit was pretty bad (everyone was just staring at Yoshida while he thought for quite some time at what should have been said out loud).
The "solution" of requesting the mother to "be nice" was pretty bad.
If this is not anime original to wrap of the show then I have to question if the author had any thought to where to take the story and how to explain Sayu's actions once they came up with the premise.
Issa taking her in definitely would make the most sense, though if she wanted to stay with Yoshida, it's possible that could be arranged without it now being a criminal issue. Though the mother would have to be ok with it obviously. I don't know about how it is in Japan, but someone can be made a temporary legal guardian for an extended period of time in the US to allow someone to take care of another's child(ren)
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pip25
Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Posts: 150
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:06 am
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Covnam wrote: |
If this is not anime original to wrap of the show then I have to question if the author had any thought to where to take the story and how to explain Sayu's actions once they came up with the premise. |
Unfortunately it isn't anime-original . The final novel just came out on the first of June and seem to contain the exact same thing as the last two episodes (and probably the next one).
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maximilianjenus
Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 2863
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:42 am
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yeah, it looks like things have not improved since higurashi ( because it happens on the 80s), there is an isekai where the mc has several mental problems and traumas, judging by the novels it looks like the medieval world is actually more advanced regarding mental health issues than modern japan is.
it looks like this is the season of dropping the ball in the finale, hell with the current standars i will be satisfied as long as yoshida and sayu don't marry each other.
just in case it was not clear i 100% agree with the review.
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Penrhos
Joined: 09 Jun 2021
Posts: 167
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:01 pm
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Nope its just a rushed badly adapted version of the LN. Episode 13 will be Volume 5 (the final volume).
The difference between Sayu and the Brother's relationship with the mother is Sayu was basically conceived after the father had moved on to another mistress, she was used to trap her husband into staying with her, and when that didn't work Sayu became a burden and a constant reminder that her husband had left her for a younger woman.
All lost in the poor adaptation - this became a car-crash from the moment they bodged the attempted rape and the aftermath, cutting out AO completely so you didn't get Yoshida's backstory and find out about how he felt about having sex with a woman he loved and why Yoshida was stuck in the idealised high-school dating world with a fantasy over large breasts. to Chopping out all the detail from the school bullying and suicide and the fact that Gotou found Sayu stood outside the office, took her home and explained that she'd run away from home, was nearly raped and was rescued and housed by someone like Yoshida until she felt she could go home. To details family backgrounds. All cut out of the adaptation just so they could squeeze the whole LN into 13 episodes.
So we're left with an entire volume compressed into one episode - the endings going to be messy, even with a time-skip.
Asami is the best Girl/Character as she's the only one with any brains - the rest of the cast are just cardboard cut out plot devices..
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Piglet the Grate
Joined: 25 May 2021
Posts: 563
Location: North America
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:57 pm
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b-dragon wrote: | Similar for getting Sayu removed from the home: if contested, I think you misjudge how likely Sayu is to be removed. I doubt she would be stateside. |
Have to disagree with you about the USA, at least in Illinois based on two people I went to school with - one was a case investigator for Department of Children and Family Services and the other headed up the domestic violence unit for a county Sheriff's department.
In Aishiteruze Baby after a neighbor calls for an ambulance after Shouta Nashiya's mother intentionally slaps him and unintentionally knocks him down the common apartment stairs, and the ER doctor notices Shouta's bruises from being hit. He suggests family counseling, but (at least in the anime) apparently does not mention notifying the police (something that would be a legal requirement in the USA). Of course that was released in 2004 and may not be representative of reality.
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yeehaw
Joined: 09 Sep 2018
Posts: 423
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:45 pm
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I loved that even Sayus mom was like "what do you MEAN you didn't have sex with my child!? Why else would anyone help a homeless child!?"
Everyone except the main characters have a serious case of incel brain were they cannot fathom people doing nice things to other people without expecting sex in return
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Chiibi
Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 4829
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Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:12 pm
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maximilianjenus wrote: | i will be satisfied as long as yoshida and sayu don't marry each other. |
What is so wrong about that, I ask you? He didn't raise her; they were only living together for a few months! There's no one better for her and she loves him and he was like nine when she was born...bruh, that is not a problematic age gap at all.
It's not like Usagi Drop where the kid was six...this show is about a young adult who hasn't reached 30 and teenaged girl who will be an adult in one year.
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Piglet the Grate
Joined: 25 May 2021
Posts: 563
Location: North America
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Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:00 pm
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Chiibi wrote: |
maximilianjenus wrote: | i will be satisfied as long as yoshida and sayu don't marry each other. |
What is so wrong about that, I ask you? He didn't raise her; they were only living together for a few months! There's no one better for her and she loves him and he was like nine when she was born...bruh, that is not a problematic age gap at all. |
The ending does not bother me at all since Sayu is 19 years old when she sits under the same lamppost again, has had two years away from Yoshida to think things over, and is coming to him completely on her own volition. Much better than if they had decided to solve the issue by getting married so as to avoid Sayu having to go back to live with her mother while finishing high school (I will leave the legality of such to people more familiar with Japanese domestic law to discuss).
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Chiibi
Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 4829
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Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:15 am
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Yeah, it's a pretty good ending...though I would have liked a little more. I started crying when Sayu told him "I can't put my memories in a big enough box!"
Girls can marry at 16 in Japan with a parental consent. Not saying it would have been good for Sayu to do that...finishing school on her own was a lot better for her.
Now about this whole 'therapy' thing...(why doesn't Sayu/her mother get help etc)
I talk regularly to someone who teaches English in Japan. Therapy is very frowned upon there. He actually has children with special needs in the same classroom as the regular kids. "It's a nightmare." he says. "Very stressful". But they refuse to separate the students.
Pretty awful....but that explains a lot about these mentally abusive situations in anime, doesn't it?
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omnistry
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 1015
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Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:46 pm
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Anyone else think the sad piano melody that plays in Higehiro (the first one heard in the final episode) sounds exactly like the song The Roots plays when Jimmy Fallon’s writing thank you cards?
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Key
Moderator
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18192
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
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Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:48 pm
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James wrote: |
Sayu is back at work, with a boss and a colleague who have both expressed their love for him, |
That should be Yoshida.
The criticism that this line starts - i.e., that nothing seems to have advanced at Yoshida's workplace in the two year time lapse - is one of the few in the review that I wholly agree with, as I wondered about that myself. Otherwise I had a much more positive reaction both to the way things ended and to the series as a whole. The series definitely has its flaws, but it also did enough right that I can see myself watching it again at some point.
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James_Beckett
ANN Reviewer
Joined: 23 Nov 2015
Posts: 274
Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:58 pm
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Key wrote: |
James wrote: |
Sayu is back at work, with a boss and a colleague who have both expressed their love for him, |
That should be Yoshida.
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Fixed!
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