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Charred Knight wrote:
Please what is Charles going to do when L puts a bullet in his head.

Dtm42 wrote:
spoiler[[Laugh?] ]

Charred Knight wrote:
Once L figures out that no Britannian guards ever defend themselves the series is over.

Dtm42 wrote:
Doesn't follow. No really, it doesn't.

Charred Knight wrote:
I mean I can't tell if the Eunechs where supposed to be taken seriously or not.

Dtm42 wrote:
They were never supposed to be an intellectual adversary, and indeed, never were. Just three greedy guys who got their arses kicked by the Rule of Cool.

Charred Knight wrote:
I already mentioned Britannian's complete inability to shoot one human being whose physical stats are complete crap.

Dtm42 wrote:
What does this have to do with anything? I don't see how the guards' weapon proficiencies (or lack of them) have any bearing on Lelouch's intelligence.

Charred Knight wrote:
Stormtroopers where protrayed as more competent than Britannian foot soldiers.

Dtm42 wrote:
At least no Britannian guard ever hit his head on a door.

This one. I actually thought about addressing his argument myself, but I don't think I could have done it a way that was nice -- so I didn't bother. Your response was adequate, and it was very well worded and witty as well. You may have been a little harsh, but I can't blame you.

dtm42 wrote:

One thing that did rankle me was the 9-2 margin of first-time voters (or those who hadn't voted in awhile) in favour of Aramaki in the C+D quater-final. If no-one had voted that time who hadn't also voted the previous week, Light would have won 10-9.

With all due respect to those that spoke out and said that the PMs they got were not biased, I still feel that a 9-2 margin in favour of a single character is abnormal and suspect. I feel that Light was cheated out of making the semi-finals.

With all due respect this sounds like a case of you just being upset your pick lost. As has been said the PM's were not biased and didn't ask for one vote over the other. In fact just to satisfy you I'll copy the PM I got to prove my point;

Quote:

Please vote in this tournament if you have the time. I would appreciate it.

That is all that was said to me. Unless the poster made individualized messages for everyone they sent it to I'll be willing to bet that's what everyone else got too. The subject was simply "Clever Tournament" and nothing else. How you can find bias in that is just crazy. It was simply random that those who got the PM's happened to share the same views. Most, if not all, had not voted AT ALL so there was no way for the person to know how people would vote. Add in the fact that we got these at the very last stages of the tournament and the choices become slimmer for who we'd vote for. And personally I do not see a problem with this type of PM. I see this as nothing more as someone wanting people to participate period. No hidden agenda, no vote petitioning, nothing else but simply to get people to participate. Now the smarter thing to do would have been request the participation a bit sooner so it affected more then just the last few rounds.

@Olliff: Oh, that. I was expecting an essay-length post on why Lelouch was so good. The post of mine that you did quote was not destroying an argument, more like calling someone else out on their incomprehensible and illogical ramblings. I shouldn't have done that though; losing my patience with someone when two Moderators had already threatened to lock the thread wasn't the brightest idea I ever had.

dtm42 wrote:

Here we have a character who was arguably the equal to the eventual winner (L). And yet, he got soundly defeated by Aramaki, who came a distant third against Lelouch (arguably Light's protégé), who himself got defeated by L. The attitudes of voters just don't stack up, unless you consider that a "hit-job" was taken out on Light.

I know I sound like I have a case of sour grapes, but I believe that I have a legitimate gripe. I also believe the best character won in the end. Its just that the process in getting there was not all squeaky clean.

I don't really have any easy answers. We shouldn't be stopping newcomers from joining in. But at the moment there are no controls to stop or discourage people from making secondary accounts, or contacting their friends or acquaintances to vote a particular way.

Phew, now I have all that off my chest, I can go eat some of the nice bread I'm making.

On the first point first of all. If this 'hit-job' attitude had be used, I think we would have seen many more characters than just Light go down the drain. That suggestion, to me, doesn't have any merit, if you like the use of merit based arguments. Now i'm not saying that I can offer a merit based reason as to why this particular incident happened, but popularity contest does come to mind.
On your second point above, I would have to agree with Derek the Red, that a squeaky clean process is quite literally impossible to achieve. That, I would have thought, is a rule of thumb.
Thirdly, I had no intentions of voting in this tornament at all, because I believed and still believe that it was first and foremost, a popularity contest(hmmmm... a common theme I believe), backed by a secondary exchange of arguments for or against all characters, regardless of whether or not they were idiotic. The only reason I decided to join, was because of the request of a friend who wanted my 'valid' opinions, regardless of the characters I chose(this person was pleased to find I chose the same characters as they did - purely co-incidental, I assure you).
And to finish off, was the bread as nice as you claimed?? Laughing

I may have gone a bit overboard when I talked about a hit-job on Light. But that is what it felt like at the time. So I stand by my comment.

On another matter entirely, home-made bread is just incredible. Cut slices an inch or more thick, put huge quantities of butter on them, and gorge yourself. I feel like a bloated snake right now. I suppose I've ruined my appetite for dinner; I guess the roast pork will have to go to my dog. Hah.

Although I am not really taking part any more, somebody has PMed me to ask me to respond to Key's wrap-up questions, and offer a few comments of my own. Fair enough, I'll give it a shot.

Key wrote:

1. Is there anything about the way the tournament is run that you think needs to be tweaked for next time? (The format for the next tournament will remain essentially the same unless I get good recommendations on possible changes.)

The format of the tournament is fine, as such. There is one important change that I feel cannot be left out: in the following tournaments, all nominations must be accompanied by a description of the character and the reasons for his/her/its participation. Not just a few lines - something that is suitable for the Guide. This will not only take the onus off the person running the tournament and place it on the nominator, where it belongs -- it will also avoid the situations we saw early on, where some characters had no Guide texts to speak of.

Essentially, throwing a name into nomination without adding explanatory text is really a violation of the forum rules against lisst posts.

Key wrote:

2. Did the discussions encourage you to try out any titles you have not previously watched?

Oh, yes. After reading about Shikamaru's brilliance, I have become a huge Naruto fan.

No, not really.

It did make me rewatch a few anime I had already seen, though.

Key wrote:

3. Is there any character you think was overlooked, or any case where anime you have seen since the tournament started might have led you to vote differently?

No.

Key wrote:

4. Some have expressed dissatisfaction with the entire Final Four. Amongst those who were initially in the tournament, who do you think should have composed the Final Four?

The luck of the draw placed some characters in matches they couldn't win, early on. Some groups were significantly less powerful than others, and easier to go through. For instance, I honestly feel Kiichi Goto deserved to go further, but his loss to Johann was completely fair. He was outmatched, there.

Let's take this on a group-by-group basis.

Group A was the weakest group, I feel, and yet it was also the most balanced. The Group A final between L and Shikamaru is a fair representation of the strengths in the group, and it was fair that L won.

Group B was an instance of disappointing behaviour by fans. I honestly don't see what makes some of you people so gullible. The same people who berate Washu for her "Washu is a genius! Washu is the world's smartest!" puppets will eagerly accept Horo's claim that she is "wise" and give her credit for far more intelligence than she actually displays (same principle applies to Light, btw).

The finalists in Group B ought to have been the Count vs. Aizen, with the Count winning easily.

Group C is complicated. In the upper half of the bracket, I can't fault Lelouch advancing as far as he did, though I feel he is overrated. The lower half is fine, though I regret the Goto vs. Johann match that early in the game. In a different group, Goto could have gone further. Even so, the matchup between Johann and Lelouch is the natural outcome of Group C. But why on Earth did Lelouch win that?

Group D had the cardboard-figure "genius" Light Yagami advancing through the matches as if he were covered in grease. He should have lost to Keaton, no question, and the final matchup should have been Keaton vs. Aramaki, with Aramaki winning narrowly.

That would have left L facing The Count and Aramaki facing Johann. Not that different from what we saw -- but in my opinion, the finalists should have been The Count vs. Aramaki.

There you go, that's my opinion.

My main issue with this tournament is the fanboy BS that has pretty much turned it into a carnival of idiocy. I would be interested in a subsequent tournament if and only if the subject were less likely to attract this sort of thing.

In any case, I think the rule against hypothetical discussions ("Could Light have picked the nose of the Emperor of Britannia, if he had had geass? Could Inspector Lunge have prevented it?") should be made a hard-and-fast part of the tournament rules in the future. That was, to my mind, the nadir of the thread.

- abunai

1. Is there anything about the way the tournament is run that you think needs to be tweaked for next time?

Possibly ban theoretical arguments or limit them to just your primary vote post.

Pick a contest that applies to all genres. I would hate to have contest that just focused on characteristic found mainly in a particular genre like romance or action.

Moderators need to act like moderators. I personally found Abunai's behavior to be completely unacceptable. Most of his arguments were very blunt and emotionally charged. I almost felt that he had a pathological hate towards a few of the characters. It's hard to take him seriously when he practicing the same bad behavior that he's supposedly trying to crack down on.

2. Did the discussions encourage you to try out any titles you have not previously watched?

Lupin!

3. Is there any character you think was overlooked, or any case where anime you have seen since the tournament started might have led you to vote differently?

Possibly Reinhard and/or the Major deserved to go further. I also vastly underestimated the amount of hate for a certain character.

4. Some have expressed dissatisfaction with the entire Final Four. Amongst those who were initially in the tournament, who do you think should have composed the Final Four?

Take out L and Aramaki and replace them with either the Major, Light, Reinhard, or Goto.

mow123 wrote:

Moderators need to act like moderators. I personally found Abunai's behavior to be completely unacceptable. Most of his arguments were very blunt and emotionally charged. I almost felt that he had a pathological hate towards a few of the characters. It's hard to take him seriously when he practicing the same bad behavior that he's supposedly trying to crack down on.

Here's the thing, kid:

You're using your response to Key's questions to whine about me personally. That's out of line, on a number of levels:

First, Key has nothing to do with the administration of this site, and if you have a problem with a moderator, you should complain to tempest. Complaining here just puts a burden on Key, and that isn't fair to him.

Second, your post violates the fundamental rule against personal attacks in any thread. Again, complaints about individuals belong in a PM to the site's boss, or in a report of a specific offending post -- not in an open forum thread. Out here, they'll only cause trouble, and they are definitely a violation. I can't imagine what might have given you cause to think that that would be permitted.

Third, moderators are users just like any others -- we're volunteers, and we frankly get more crap from you people than we deserve. We are not "fair game" for your rudeness, nor are we barred from responding to insults. We are not bound to a higher standard of behaviour than the rest of you -- but we are expected to be even-handed and fair in dispensing arse-kickings where needed. (Which is why I am bending over backwards not to kick your arse right now, and instead giving you a calm explanation, as politely as you have merited.)

Fourth, and most importantly, you didn't have the balls to PM me about any issues you had. Instead of stepping up like a man and handling it "face to face", you thought you'd whine about it in public, instead, and everybody would step up and pat you on the back. A cheap way to score points.

Guess what -- I don't really give a toss what you think about me. The fact that you find my behaviour "unacceptable" is perhaps going to cost me 0.001 seconds of sleep, if that much.

Now you slink off back to whatever hole you seeped out from.

- abunai
After this, I am more convinced than ever that tournaments should stop, immediately. The number of moderators who have the patience for them just decreased by one.

I apologize for my prior post, and I admit it I was clearly out of line. I have since sent a PM to Abunai in attempts to mitigate what I have done. I would also like to apologize to everyone who wants to see the next tournament as much as I do. I should have been more rational, and sent Abunai a PM instead of posting it here. In a sense, I feel that it is my fault if the next tournament doesn't happen. Sorry.

I do know that I am not the only one that had an issue with Abunai's recent behavior, but please take my last post as example of what not to do. Pursue the proper channels if you have an issue with the man. Let's hope Abunai is forgiving. I would love hear your opinions in PMs if you have advice for me.

Lastly, I think I could resolve the whole thing if I just urged everyone again to stay calm.

Just curious, when is the next thread for the new tournament going to open? I can't wait!

Quote:

- abunai
After this, I am more convinced than ever that tournaments should stop, immediately. The number of moderators who have the patience for them just decreased by one.

Ya know this makes me think of something that might be helpful. This would require work on the moderator crew I understand, but hopefully it can alleviate some of this strain the tournaments cause. Currently active we have 4 mods, discounting admin who mostly stick to the Comm and Talkback sections, who are active in any real capacity. Tony, Zalis, Keonyn, and you abunai. So here's an idea. For each tournament have 1 or 2 mods as the "chosen mod" to keep an eye over the tournament. Then for the next one switch off. One, this keeps the same mods from having to watch over them time after time. Second, the ones who are not acting in the capacity as a mod can just vote and participate if they so choose and want to. Then you won't have a mod who's conflicted between his participation and being a mod. Just saves a headache IMO. It's just an idea but maybe one you 4 might wanna consider so you can stop lighting those torches and put down the pitchforks. Wink

Wow. This might actually be the first time in my life that I've actually won something. I'm a bit taken aback. I never really thought I'd be in the top half of the table for the minigame, let alone win...!

The tournament seemed to run just fine to me, both technically and in terms of the bickering, it seemed no more heated than last time to me, but I was never really either in the line of fire or doing the firing, so perhaps I'm not the best judge.

I can't say that the tournament really made me want to watch any series in particular, though it did pique my interest a little further in a couple (GTO and Princess Tutu) I haven't gotten around to checking either out, yet. I also can't say I was disappointed by the final four, it was more or less what I was expecting. There were a couple of characters that I would have liked to go further, but my disappointments in this were not nearly as severe as they were in the last tournament, (I'm still shocked by Haruka and Michiru's loss. Seriously.) and none of them were exactly unexpected.

I would like to echo a sentiment mentioned earlier, by I think it was marie-antoinette, that video clips start with the strongest, rather than something a bit weaker for the sake of 'saving the best til last' - if it's a character that is predominantly unfamiliar to the posting group, then they should be allowed to make their strongest impression at the earliest possible opportunity.

velocet wrote:

I would like to echo a sentiment mentioned earlier, by I think it was marie-antoinette, that video clips start with the strongest, rather than something a bit weaker for the sake of 'saving the best til last' - if it's a character that is predominantly unfamiliar to the posting group, then they should be allowed to make their strongest impression at the earliest possible opportunity.

It wasn't me who said that (I don't remember who it was either), but I do agree with it! Anime smile

Though I still want some context with my clips, please.

Dr. Light of megaman is smart. So is Dr. Wily but Dr. Light is smarter.

Uhhh...no one can get the drop on Golgo. Light from Death Note is such a brain but he got his come uppants in the end.

LondinCalling wrote:

Light from Death Note is such a brain but he got his come uppants in the end.

Come...up...pants? Confused

...

Is that some kind of ultra-wedgie? Twisted Evil

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