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JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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As something of an Evangelion deterrent, (something of, my hatred for parts of it stems from a deep love from most of it,) I agree that the "Shinji is an emo git" argument is total bullcrap. If you're gonna criticize Evangelion and attempt to look at it seriously, because there are some serious issues to analyze in it: leave that by the wayside. You are totally missing the point of the story if "Shinji is a crappy hero" is the base of your argument.
*That said,* just because the most commonly tossed-around argument for Evangelion being purrrrrrrrrrty wonky is dead wrong...doesn't mean that Evangelion isn't purrrrrty wonky, just for entirely different reasons. The "psychology" of the story, which is what people tend to dwell on, ("how realistic are the characters?") is rock-solid and definitely the strongest thematic element of Evangelion. The "philosophy" of the story, ("how do these characters escape?") is really where all the problems are. If I go into detail, I'm just gonna drag off-topic, but the simplest way I can put it is that Hideaki Anno understood very well the chutes of life, but didn't know very much about ladders...which would be totally great if he didn't try so hard to write in ladders, and he does, and those parts of Evangelion are just embarrassingly poorly written. Evangelion: psychologically rich, philosophically bankrupt. And yes, I *know* they ran out of money near the end, but that doesn't mean I want to hear the solution to crushing self-loathing delivered from a pulpit in a void, especially when they're perpetually contradicting themselves. @~@ Despite my protests that the movie's ultimate plot/conclusion/thematic summation is fundamentally broken and Anno had no idea what he was talking about even in his own head making that TV ending (the movie ending follows its own internal logic way better, but...I still don't like being preached to for ten minutes... ^^; ) ...well, Mike Toole's Herzog quote sums it up best: it's still an essential, seminal work, I can in no way argue that it's not good and don't want to, every anime fan should see it, etc etc. It just always struck me more as a fascinating look into the mind of its creator than a standalone work that means anything profound under the surface of all its "new images." Utena, for instance, is a groundbreaking work with a unified theme that's solid all the way through...EVA is sort of stumbling around in the dark, changing its mind, and ultimately not making much sense despite asserting that it's found the answers to its own questions. But hey, there's something really damn novel about that, and it deserves to be looked at. I almost want to call EVA the *most* heavily flawed great anime in existence, and I guess I'll leave it at that. 
Yup. Yes, this, a thousand times. I figure that to some extent I responded so *vehemently* to Evangelion's last third for this reason. When I get the tipoff that a work of art is going to be introspective, allegorical, commentative, all that stuff, my brain engages pretty hard and I try to pick up subtle cues and slivers of characterization and metaphor to build a conclusion out of. Evangelion kinda targets a different receptor: its emotions are loud, immature, clearly stated, as is its explanation for what they all mean, not just to the characters, but to the universe around them. I balked pretty hard at being told what to think of the characters' behavior, and I got sick of it being so up-front and sophomoric to the extent that it even made the characters themselves unrealistic being turned up to 11 all the time. (Shinji falling for Kaworu so hard in ep. 24 was telegraphed rather than developed, everyone in Instrumentality...just...EVERYONE in Instrumentality, I could go on for ages... X_X; ) I guess I like my deep, thoughtful works both personable and at least somewhat subtle, and Evangelion was only one of those things. It is *very* loud, very emotional, and at some point I couldn't invest in it without sighing in frustration at the visible strings. Anno only realized what he wanted to say very late in that story, and it shows, is the problem. I like being whispered to rather than yelled at when complex issues are at hand. When Bamboo was talking about Princess Mononoke and what makes the writing so good in that, I was all "Yes, yes, totally yes." That's a heavily emotional, human film that's also wonderfully subtle. ^U^ <3 EDIT: I've now bought me some Giant Robo! A LOT of people have been wanting me to review this, oddly enough, and I love me some outrageous spectacle.
Last edited by JacobC on Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DJcream
 Posts: 60 Location: NorCal |
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I don't remember a lot of anime from the 90's, let alone anything before 1997 but music has always been something I can relate to since MTV and BET (which says a lot in my taste in music) actually showed music videos back then. Top 5 songs from the decade as follows...
5) Tupac - Hey Mama: There's something special when one of Amerikaz Most Wanted rapper at the time can take a moment to give big ups to his mother. 4) Puffy - I'll Be Missing You: While I've always sided with 'Pac on the WC vs. EC conflict, Puff Daddy's (now P. Diddy) eulogy to long-time partner Notorious BIG proclaimed the truest feelings from the heart. No beef is worth fighting for when the value of what we have lost amounts to more than what anyone could have gained. 3) TLC - Waterfalls: Real talk, "SexyCrazyCool" was the first CD I've ever bought. I really bought into the personality of these girls back then since they were always rapping about related life experiences of growing up in the city. I think that TLC and Salt 'n' Pepper did the hip hop community a service in putting out songs like "Waterfalls" and "Let's Talk About Sex" to bring the issue of safe sex out to the forefront especially when the media (and Laker's Magic Johnson) made a big push in fighting the HIV epidemic. 2) Souls of Mischief Crew - '93 'til Infinity: Growing up in NorCal all my life, this has been the regional anthem for the decade. The beat is probably the second most recognizable in hip hop history next to "T.R.O.Y". On top of that, the group did a marvelous job in complimenting the chill beat with a number of laid back verses that is still being recited in Oakland nearly 20 years later. 1) Wu-tang Clan - CREAM: No surprise that this would be my favorite song of the decade given that it helped inspired my first and only Internet handle. While "93 'til Infinity" was an ice cold lemonade on a hot summer day, "CREAM" was that Bacardi 151 at the club later than night. The track is raw, gritty yet mesmerizing and enjoyable. |
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nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
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All the praise for Neon Genesis Evangelion was expected and, I suppose, more than understandable given its importance and influence. Speaking purely on a personal level though, I seriously do need to re-watch those DVDs since my own memories of the series are getting weaker by the year and prevent me from actively discussing it in any sort of detail. Maybe then I'll see whether or not I'm still as positive about it as most of you guys were or, on the other hand, ultimately join the ranks of those who simply respect it.
As for Revolutionary Girl Utena, I strongly prefer the TV series to the movie but nevertheless consider both of them excellent anime works and absolutely worth the full investment. And yes, I'm glad to own the new DVD sets as well. The remastered footage really makes the art direction shine and the music is just as good -if not better- than what it always was. For that matter, I can't complain about the nice booklets and all the extra background information provided. Likewise, Escaflowne is yet another great title. I did sincerely think the pacing felt ever so slightly rushed during the last episode or two...but maybe that's just my desire for even more content speaking? Either way, it didn't really detract from my experience and I have no complaints about the ending at all. Kazuki Akane (who arguably had more of a role in developing the final concept and directing this project than even Kawamori himself, all things considered) seems to do a pretty job with those bittersweet yet satisfying resolutions. Glad to see so many people including Giant Robo among the twitter lists and yes, I think Mike Toole did a good job explaining why the show works. Mind you, I didn't get to watch a single episode until...apparently sometime after AWO's Daryl Surat did a podcast on the OVA series, which was many years after the original release, but still managed to be swept up by the whole thing and it also made me an Imagawa fan in the long run. In fact, 2009's Shin Mazinger came quite close to replicating the magic all over again, at least in terms of what a TV budget can possibly hope to achieve. I'm a bit more ashamed to admit that it actually took me some years to actually watch Patlabor 2, despite having a VHS copy around for quite a while longer than that, but I can also agree with why it's getting so much love here. Hmm....Guess I don't have that much to disagree about. Oh, here's one. I'd say Infinite Ryvius can be a pretty compelling show, at least for those who don't get bored by it after the first couple of episodes. Specifically, I liked the character drama and the mecha battles. Yeah, I didn't care for the hip-hop bits, either way...and since the series predated Gundam SEED, Hisashi Hirai's designs were basically a new thing (he's arguably gotten way worse about "same face" over time). Not too surprised by the reactions though. Definitely not the best anime ever nor something meant for everyone, but I'd easily call the series underrated given its obscurity. I don't feel like making up a list of my own right now, but thanks for the entertaining and informative podcast(s). |
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mannyperson
Posts: 62 |
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I didn't really see them that way. I thought they were hilarious and just said what they thought. This is coming from someone who loves both Yu Yu Hakusho and the 2nd season of Kenshin, and really can't fathom how 2 of them love Marmalade Boy enough to have it come close to ranking in their Top Ten (i'm only talking the anime here--the manga was awesome).
But I love the love for Escaflowne. Tight story, great pacing, and interesting side characters (I also thought Dryden was the best character--the show should have done a little more w/ him). I rewatched the show recently after last catching it years ago on Fox. I had thought it was one of those shows that gotten crappy after the midpoint (like Trigun and Fushigi Yugi IMO), but it only got better! Only the animation has aged. The music is still as epic as it was back then. |
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Graceful Nanami
Posts: 303 Location: United States |
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Hell yes Yu Yu Hakusho: Honou no Kizuna is like... the best anime movie ever.
Haha. ...I'm serious. >_____> And the Marmalade Boy TV series is the best pure romance anime ever made as far as I'm concerned. The manga sucks. It's so flat and boring compated to the anime. Of course I feel the exact opposite about Yoshizumi's Ultra Maniac... |
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Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
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This series makes people just showing up into a spectacle, the last two episodes just ramp the series up as the Experts of Justice try to stop the end of the world. Also watch out for the Media Blaster dub using the line "to take over the world of course" as two characters talk on the Eiffel Tower which I thought was pretty funny. One thing I think Mike should have mentioned is that as far as I can tell Giant Robo was the first anime to use the Warsaw Philharmonic Ochestra which frequently did music for various anime that Yoko Kanno did the music for(I think this might actually be the reason why so much anime does it as she uses them a lot), and Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood. |
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tangytangerine
 Posts: 439 |
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It's probably because he doesn't know to end to the series. That's more than likely why he works on other stuff like character designs for video games in between(like Sakura Wars). I can see why someone had the 90's Ah! My Goddess OVAs on their list. Since it condenses, somewhat, the introductions that first tv season spread out for around 14 episodes into 3. Plus it was the only thing, besides the movie, that used the original character designs before they shifted to what is seen in the 2 tv seasons. I'm kinda shocked how many times G Gundam was listed. Much like Zac mentioned in Part 1, there was too many tournament fights to keep my interest in that show. That V Gundam mention had to be a troll post, as anyone who's seen the show will know how bad it is. |
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zawa113
 Posts: 7358 |
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Man, it feels like I either flat out disliked a lot of "90s classic" series listed on these last two podcasts, or I just didn't much care for them. Eva, Utena, Escaflowne, I really did not care for these series at all. Maybe I would've had to have seen them when I was getting into anime. I think I fell asleep during Patlabor 2, I need to retry it with a can of Dr. Pepper next to me. It's not a movie to watch after coming back from classes totally whipped.
I think my top 3 90s series are: Outlaw Star-it's the anime that got me into anime, close call between this and Digimon for credit for getting me into anime. Yes, Bebop aired at about the same time, but Outlaw Star always came off as the more fun show to me. Sexy Commando-I only saw this within the past three years, but man, it's easily the best comedy anime ever made. Golden Boy was also a close call for the comedy spot Key the Metal Idol-something that just made me go "Woooow!" when I blind bought the DVDs, the sort of dark and interesting cel animated 90s thing that comes to mind when I think of dark 90s stuff. I don't use Twitter, but my top 3 00s anime were somehow easier to come up with. Not as many things vying to make it on to the list, my top list was far more clear cut. #3) Metropolis-the anime movie that helped me get into anime. Oddly enough didn't get me into Tezuka, Astro Boy: Omega Factor for the GBA did. I've rewatched it recently, I do still love it #2) Gurren Lagann-it came out of nowhere to punch me in the face and remind me of what "fun" is when watching anime #1) Princess Tutu-made me rethink all of shojo for one thing, but it's just a masterpiece of storytelling. |
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Cheesecracker
 Posts: 240 |
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I've always thought the 'Shinji is a puss' people were idiots, so thanks for being pro Shinji.
Still, I never thought of him as depressed as just kind of stuck in a bubble. No one really has any need for him, but they keep him alive from a distance and he just kind of carries on. I think most of his life he's kind of accepted that he's getting all that he has any chance to get from the people around him. I think given the chance he starts to feel his way around the closer contact he receives. For once in his life he's not dealing with people at a distance. He's kind of like an alien amongst humans that's been half awake his whole life. Now he's getting woken up *exclamation point* Of course the 'growing pains' that he experiences are both the normal and ridiculous. People start pushing and pulling on him, not making sense, trying to help him and just being friends with him. Above all is piloting the Eva. Because of this he literally is at his most valuable and disposable. He has to risk his life in the Eva or his new life is at risk. After a life of being a spectre he's suddenly in the middle of so much that he doesn't really have/ couldn't have too much understanding of. His learning curve is pretty steep. Amongst it all he's finding things he actually values and develops a sense of purpose. How about you trying to proceed with caution with a jet strapped to your back and pointed at an industrial fan while people throw poisonous snakes at you. So how was your day? I own the Eva movies. I keep hearing how the DVDs were crap. Is it possible that is just nitpicking insider talk? I watched one last time I heard this statement and didn't really have a problem. I feel like I'm going to have to watch Gaogaigar all the way through. What I saw was pretty cool. I guess the greatness was around the corner. Nothing really hints at this though, but it keeps getting such a positive endorsement. |
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neocloud9
 Posts: 1178 Location: Atlanta, GA |
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Alright, ANNCast! I give up, you win. I finally ordered Evangelion last night after hearing this episode.
Truth is, the only reason I'd even waited this long is because my first - and up until now, only - exposure to the series had been when my mom rented End of Evangelion for me in elementary school. (She saw that it was anime, she knew I liked anime, Blockbuster must not have labeled it right, etc.) Needless to say, I was slightly... Well, "traumatized" might be a bit overdramatic, but let's just say I wasn't exactly in a big hurry to watch anything Eva-related for some time afterwards. So, thanks! I guess. JesuOtaku's got me worried now... 
P.S. Utena is awesome and makes hearts come out from my eyes too. |
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asimpson2006
 Posts: 3151 Location: USA |
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Nope that was not a troll post at all. I was the one to submit that and I do love Victory Gundam. It was tough for me to pick which of the Gundam series I have watched from the 90's that I wanted to put in there. I love the 08th MS team, but that last episode was enough to not make it into the top of my list. I like 0083, but that show is too flawed and do not get me started with the compilation movie for 0083. Wing is okay, and just okay. G Gundam got good for me once episode 12 started. Gundam X is on my to watch list and I hope to watch it this summer along with Turn A Gundam. I do not remember much about Endless Waltz so I need to watch it again. So no I was not trolling by saying that at all. If you do not like what I have to say about that then too bad. |
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ABCBTom
 Posts: 183 |
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I'm really sad nobody mentioned this series, as I feel it's too unique to be forgotten, but I love Key the Metal Idol. Maybe Theron can testify to it better than I, but it's such a unique show. It goes off the rails, but some of the images and ideas in that show are just incredible.
I regret not sending it in for the podcast, so it wouldn't be forgotten. |
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jugemxjugem
Posts: 7 |
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really enjoyed the podcast, beside the intro which almost made me deaf.
, can't wait till my exams pass, a lot of your top 10s sound interesting , will try to watch as much as i can this summer my top 3 , 00's anime would be 1. Gintama 2. Monster 3. Darker than black (for sentimental reasons) |
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Surrender Artist
 Posts: 3264 Location: Pennsylvania, USA |
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I thought that the first thirteen episodes of Key the Metal Idol were excellent, but the way it ended really drug it down. It had a lot of interesting content, effective images and some very compelling, even novel characterization (I really liked that way that cult leader was handled), but I felt like ultimately got ground down by the mechanics of its plot and had an annoying conclusion. I'm really glad I saw it and I recommend seeing it, but I can't help but see it as an also-ran that could've been a great. |
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bravetailor
Posts: 817 |
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Most people rate Ghost in the Shell higher than Patlabor 1 and 2 mostly because of its impact and influence. I personally like Patlabor 2 the best of his 90s anime, but totally understand people rating GITS higher. I'd also compare Oshii to Kubrick in some ways, but he lacks Kubrick's outrageous sense of humour (though Oshii's humour is actually very subtle). In this sense, Oshii also has much in common with Tarkovsky (who Oshii is a huge fan of). As for Eva, well, it brought "auteurist" TV anime to the forefront. It's clumsy and unsubtle in a lot of ways, but it's deeply personal. There's not enough of that in anime in general, which are often assembly line productions with not much personal meaning to the creative staff involved. |
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