Forum - View topicChicks On Anime - Best Friends Forever
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DomFortress
 Posts: 751 Location: Richmond BC, Canada |
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Cloe
Moderator
 Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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What the..?? Yes, you've clearly uncovered the seedy underbelly of Chicks on Anime--subliminal marketing! Not, you know, bringing up series that all three participants in the discussion have seen and can therefore discuss on equal terms. To be honest, though, if our discussion gets someone to check out Utena, I'm thrilled. |
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daxomni
 Posts: 2650 Location: Somewhere else. |
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My wellness was negatively impacted when you quoted my on-topic post and then used it as some sort of misguided excuse to help derail the thread and post an insanely long and completely unrelated rant about god only knows what. From here on out don't quote me again. Don't respond to me. Don't reference me. Just keep your bizarre diatribes as far away from my posts as possible.
Yes, you're a posting machine. You have something to say on every topic at every turn every minute of the day. We get it. You don't need to keep proving it to us. Your post count almost seems obscene when you consider your join date. I would be truly embarrassed to have said that much in such a short period of time. |
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Cait
 Posts: 503 |
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Before I get into this, I hope my exasperation with this thread of conversation is at least noticed, considering I've said I was joking at least twice now, but here we go again. I'd also like to say that although you and I disagree quite often, ArthurFrDent, I don't dislike you as a person. Maybe it's the Kyon icon? Who knows? When I look at your posts and then I look at your icon I just feel like you're a regular guy caught up in a situation you couldn't possibly control. Anyway...
Well, I'm going to have to stop you there, though. My intent (outside the joke) was not in regards to actual, serious conversations. I wasn't talking about functional, utilitarian, or crisis situations. I was generally referring to casual conversation. Sitting around a table and chatting, as it were. While i'll be the first to admit that I feel no real connection (on a sociological level) to my fellow women and that I don't, therefore, think or act the way a "typical" woman does (whatever that means), I do take issue with the notion that men and women are so inherently different in the way that they approach issues that they couldn't possibly ever be held to separate but equal standards for "quality" of conversation. This leads me to...
And here's the thing: I work around men, so I have to listen to this garbage all the time. When they are talking about their girlfriends, everything is pretty normal and the whole, "marry her" or whatever train of conversation is upright and proper. I don't hear them objectifying the actual women in their lives (at least not in front of me, though they do like use their narrow view of their own relationships to overgeneralize all women and that annoys me, but that's another rant entirely), but as soon as the conversation turns to a celebrity or a hot chick they saw at the grocery store, it becomes that objectification. Those women, that they aren't "close" to, are not treated with the same respect the women in their actual lives are regarded with. I feel like, if you are going to respect people, you should respect all of them, not just the ones you have immediate social obligation to. This applies to both men and women and as far as my "joke" goes, there should be a rule for men, whether or not there actually is one.
Absolutely, people are more than allowed to approach life from different viewpoints, however, the Bechdel rule exists for this very reason: to promote actual positive threads of conversation among women and not vapid, inane or shallow impressions as they often are seen in depictions in popular culture/fiction. Men should be held to the same standard. And DomFortress, I'm sorry, but you completely lost me. Your response was less a counter-argument to mine, and more of a tangent about things that had little to do with what we were talking about. When I said "sports" I meant team sports as you see on TV, like football and baseball, not a general athletic ability that all people should strive towards to stay fit and healthy (both men and women). I thought the implication was clear, but maybe it wasn't. |
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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And I totally commend that! But... would they be able to watch it even if they were interested? Because I'm as big of an Utena fan as you can get, I unfortunately don't have the money to shell out 30+ bucks a used dvd since the first half of the series on dvd is out of print. Oh Central Park Media~ if you're reading this. Revolutionary Girl Utena was just recently re-released in Japan, and remastered! Would you be so kind as to pleeeeeeeeeeease re-release at least the first half or so, because I really would like to buy it. And if you could fix up some of those translation mistakes, and get rid of those hard subs on the songs, that'd be fantastic. /fangirl dream |
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Princess_Irene
ANN Reviewer
 Posts: 2607 Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City |
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A few others have come up - "Dirty Pair," "Sailor Moon," "Wedding Peach," etc. - but no one has commented much about them, if at all. I think it may be a case of what the many have seen/read vs. the few. (And yes, I am aware that I brought most of what I listed up, and no, it was not a ploy to get them discussed.  )
By the bye, "Princess 9" is a great example, DomFortress. I wish that show got more love. |
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xandox
Posts: 1 |
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From what I read of this article, any series where friends talk about a guy is discouraged (as if conversations about the opposite gender are non existent), Talk about only TWO series, and any series without a male character which guys like (as well as girls) is blacklisted.
I don't know whether this rant or their fansubs rant is more outrageous. |
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Kayu1111
Posts: 21 |
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I think they were kinda harsh about Sex and the City =| They talk about men a LOT. But the characters seriously care about each other. It comes out in situations like when Miranda's mother dies or Samantha gets breast cancer. It was a show about much more than sex, despite what a lot of people think.
Same with Friends. they did actually talk about lots of things besides men. I still see their point....but as a fan of both of those shows I have to defend them and say they aren't utterly shallow. |
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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1. Any series where friends ONLY talk about a guy is discouraged, because that's insanely shallow. Or did you miss the part in the discussion where we clarified the "only" part. And we even commended anime for talking about such a wide range of subjects! You've got some misplaced anger, dude. 2. How was this discussion even a rant? Once again, anger issues. I think you're pretty outrageous, sir. |
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farichada
 Posts: 303 Location: Wisconsin, USA |
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Great article. I agree that it's not good for female characters to just talk about guys. Just like everything in an anime -- everything in moderation -- I won't hold an anime for worse if there's a strong romance story. However, I loathe female character who just serve to be rescued or talk about their lover 24/7 like a submissive little traditionalist. Even Belldandy gets on my nerves-- women like that don't exist- and if they do have serious mental issues.
I think Kurau: Phantom Memories is a good example of female friendship. They have a strong bond; that's a mix between strong friendship and siblings. I can't believe how many fans say they are lovers; that's just a big stretch and heck they are like siblings -- that's just a bit too odd if it was true. There is some blushing here and there and hugging, but nothing out of the norm for people who really care about each other. It's sad that these rumors are so strong; a friend didn't want to watch it because someone told him it was heavy shojo-ai. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Yeah, KPM has a great dynamic between its leads. I'd be quite willing to say its love, with the clarification that I'm not talking about romance. |
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konkonsn
 Posts: 172 Location: Illinois |
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Perhaps I wasn't clear, or I guess we're focused on different things. The problem isn't that the women aren't focusing on each other or other things. The problem is specifically that everything is focused on the male character. American and Japan are patriarchal societies, as in, "All things male are best!" Therefore, when movies focus on men or stereotypical masculinity, they're giving power to things in society that are already dominating society. Imagine if America conquered Canada. Then all the movies in Canada focused on American heroes. Canadian side characters are featured, but all they do is talk about the Americans or American things. This example is semi-realistic; media is America's #1 export, and most of it promotes white, male Americans to other countries. I think the closest thing to a Bechdel test for men would be a gathering of men having a conversation that doesn't promote stereotypical masculine traits. In other words, conversations about sex that aren't, "I'm gonna score tonight!", about women that aren't, "I'm gonna score tonight!", about sports or physical attributes that don't focus on upper body strength and domination. If you think about the amount of movies that don't force young boys to think they need awesome abs, a steady girl with three booty calls on the side and the ability to kill without crying, we're in a freakin' awful state... |
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Princess_Irene
ANN Reviewer
Posts: 2607 Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City |
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I see your point, but the majority of the show felt an awful lot like a man's idea of what a liberated woman is, which is what bothered me about it. Yes, the friendships were strong, but the premise felt like it detracted from that. |
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marzipan.dragon
 Posts: 70 |
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I feel compelled to add: being laconic is not exclusive to men. From my experience as a woman-of-few-words, it seems to me that there is more variation in communication needs/styles between individual people than there is between 'men' and 'women'. Perhaps my perspective is a little different since I went to an all-female high school and then worked in a mostly male environment for years. What is needed and wanted by verbal communication depends on the person, really. A little closer to on topic - I appreciate the friendship between the two Nanas in NANA, but it is Junko who I relate to the most.
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Ehhh.... I'd like to dispute that. I don't think you can call it a friendship, since it's more like one of those really unhealthy relationships that don't really deserve to be called by that word. Soi Fon is obsessive about Yoruichi, and Yoruichi makes full use (abuse) of this obsession. If Yoruichi were a man, all the female audience would be screaming about male domination and stereotyping of Soi Fon as a woman whose only reason for being was to devote herself to Yoruichi, whether in a positive or a negative way. But they're both female, so instead it's a "female friendship"? Sorry, I don't buy it. I like the series, and I like the characters, but "friendship" is not the word for their relationship. - abunai |
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