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NEWS: Harmony Gold Founder/Robotech Producer Sentenced for Tax Fraud


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dragon695



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 1377
Location: Clemson, SC
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:04 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Apollo-kun wrote:
Seriously, is this still a thing? Why can't people respect the dead? Anime fandom wouldn't be the same without him.


If you believe what some people say, it would be better, since we'd be able to buy titles such as Macross Frontier. That would be pretty cool.

I'm more interested in a subbed release of DYRL mastered BD!
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Teriyaki Terrier



Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 5689
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:20 am Reply with quote
In a sense, this almost seems ironic that the founder of Harmony Gold is being sentenced for tax fraud, given that the company's name is Harmony Gold.
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Beltane70



Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 2625
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:26 am Reply with quote
Apollo-kun wrote:
1. Mention Harmony Gold
2. Flaming about Carl Macek "ruining anime" starts
3. ????
4. Profit!

Seriously, is this still a thing? Why can't people respect the dead? Anime fandom wouldn't be the same without him.


This is where I disagree. People give Carl Macek way more credit than he deserves when it comes to the state of anime fandom. There were quite a few shows that were more memorable than Robotech that came out quite some time before Robotech did. Speed Racer, Kimba the White Lion, Astroboy, Battle of the Planets, Star Blazer, and Voltron all aired on TV before Robotech and are remembered by far more people than Robotech is. Carl wasn't involved in any one of those shows, all of which are far more important to anime fandom than Robotech is or will ever be.

mdo7 wrote:

No GeorgeC is correct, I don't think he's working for Harmony Gold he know this really well and I agreed with him. I myself watch both Robotech and the uncut dub of Macross. There was something I like about Robotech over the Macross, and there were thing about Macross over Robotech (like Minmei's singing). But GeorgeC is correct, without Robotech, anime fanbase would not exist. As a matter of fact, we wouldn't have been anime fans without these edited anime. But the good news, a lot of anime that has been previously edited has now gotten uncut release, that's a good thing. The past is the past, just look at now and the future.


Sorry, but no, there already was a growing anime fanbase in the US prior to Robotech.


Lynx Amali wrote:
dtm42 wrote:
I don't know who is stopping me from owning Macross Frontier, but I do know that I hate their guts.


Both sides of the Pacific.

Japan's unwillingness to license anything outside of what has already been licensed. (We were supposed to get that one Macross 7 manga YEARS ago [Macross 7 Trash, I think] from Tokyopop but that disappeared.)
HG, in the fact they only have license to the original footage of SDF and merchandising involving that era.

I think we were supposed to get Zero too, at one point. Plus only sneaked by because people weren't paying attention most likely.

That's not even getting into music licensing either. (Frontier, while not as big of an issue as 7's, would still cost an arm and a leg.)


I can't blame Big West or Bandai for not wanting to license new Macross productions for US release when they would have to go through and compensate Harmony Gold to use the Macross name since Harmony Gold has the Macross name trademarked in the US and a few other countries. Why would they want to pay Harmony Gold to release their own product in a niche market of another niche market?
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Ingraman



Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 1063
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:31 am Reply with quote
Beltane70 wrote:
Sorry, but no, there already was a growing anime fanbase in the US prior to Robotech.

There was, but I'll give Robotech credit for getting me into anime when I did. I'd missed StarBlazers, and I'd only seen a few episodes of Battle of the Planets/G-Force. If it hadn't been for the "Robotech" characters (amongst many I didn't recognize) in the ad for AnimeCon '91 on the back cover of a Starlog magazine issue, my interest in anime might not have started or it might have been significantly delayed.

That's as much credit as I'll give Harmony Gold. Their getting in the way of more Macross products coming over here nearly cancels out my goodwill, though.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 13920
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:07 am Reply with quote
When it involves Berlusconi, nothing's gonna happen. The guy practically runs Italy. Y'know how many times the guy should've been in jail and hasn't?! This is much ado about nothing.
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StudioToledo



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Toledo, U.S.A.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:53 am Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
I doubt anyone is going to do research or do a segment on Japanese dub on American cartoon. The only reason some people found out about Beast War and other American cartoon had alteration for the Japanese veron because of Youtube (people from Japan upload the Japanese dub and intro of American cartoon so people in US would find out that Japan did edit American cartoon).

And surely that's all there is to it, simply getting public exposure in a medium like YouTube is all we have (and I hate to admit I took advantage of that a decade ago looking up on such obscure, pointless things like what cartoons a person my age was watching in France back in the 80's. That sort of open-mindedness has always been with me for such a long time, it was finally killer to go and see what television was like across the Ocean than from the few VHS tapes I've tape-traded in the past or picking up distant signals from Canadian stations from my indoor antenna.

Reminded of once getting a tape with an episode of the 90's X-Men cartoon from a Japanese broadcast from a pal I know up in Canada and it was something to see what they had for the opening/closing tunes, but that sort of thing was often common in other countries were often highlighting local talent or other deals were made and often American/Foreign programs might see such alterations than to stay original to the source material. Several American shows like Love Boat and Mork & Mindy got pretty kickass themes in Italy I've noticed. It's kinda fun to notice these things, like the Italian theme to the first Lupin III series when that came over there, love to by that EP!

Quote:
If there's anyone in Japan that can speak English and has a huge amount of knowledge on American cartoon and has done research on censorship/editing of American animation in Japan, is there a way he/she can present it at a con so US anime fans can now realize that Japan is no different from US when it comes to editing foreign animation.

Which I'm sure is all fat chance that it will happen.

Quote:
Since you brought it up, now I wonder what changes dd Toho and HB did for the Japanese version of this show:


Wish I could help you there.

Beltane70 wrote:
This is where I disagree. People give Carl Macek way more credit than he deserves when it comes to the state of anime fandom. There were quite a few shows that were more memorable than Robotech that came out quite some time before Robotech did. Speed Racer, Kimba the White Lion, Astroboy, Battle of the Planets, Star Blazer, and Voltron all aired on TV before Robotech and are remembered by far more people than Robotech is. Carl wasn't involved in any one of those shows, all of which are far more important to anime fandom than Robotech is or will ever be.

There's that. Of course when many of those shows were aired, the emphasis that they were "anime" at all wasn't the point (I'm sure Battle of the Planets was being passed off as an 'original' American cartoon with the added scenes they stuck in), though their foreign nature was probably something that clicked with those Baby Boomers/Gen-X'ers that saw them.

Quote:
Sorry, but no, there already was a growing anime fanbase in the US prior to Robotech.

There was, though it certainly wasn't a big community in those pre-1985 days and certainly far more remote. Those were the days of actually going out to cons and finding people with like-minded interests and maintaining fanzines and all that.

Quote:
[quote="Lynx Amali"]
dtm42 wrote:
I don't know who is stopping me from owning Macross Frontier, but I do know that I hate their guts.

Both sides of the Pacific.

Japan's unwillingness to license anything outside of what has already been licensed. (We were supposed to get that one Macross 7 manga YEARS ago [Macross 7 Trash, I think] from Tokyopop but that disappeared.)
HG, in the fact they only have license to the original footage of SDF and merchandising involving that era.

It's a headache that will go on and on.

Quote:
Lynx Amali wrote:
I think we were supposed to get Zero too, at one point. Plus only sneaked by because people weren't paying attention most likely.

That's not even getting into music licensing either. (Frontier, while not as big of an issue as 7's, would still cost an arm and a leg.)

I can't blame Big West or Bandai for not wanting to license new Macross productions for US release when they would have to go through and compensate Harmony Gold to use the Macross name since Harmony Gold has the Macross name trademarked in the US and a few other countries. Why would they want to pay Harmony Gold to release their own product in a niche market of another niche market?

Another fine mess we gotten ourselves into!

enurtsol wrote:
When it involves Berlusconi, nothing's gonna happen. The guy practically runs Italy. Y'know how many times the guy should've been in jail and hasn't?! This is much ado about nothing.

I've seen enough jokes about him to know the routine.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 5915
Location: Cypress, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:53 pm Reply with quote
Beltane70 wrote:

mdo7 wrote:

No GeorgeC is correct, I don't think he's working for Harmony Gold he know this really well and I agreed with him. I myself watch both Robotech and the uncut dub of Macross. There was something I like about Robotech over the Macross, and there were thing about Macross over Robotech (like Minmei's singing). But GeorgeC is correct, without Robotech, anime fanbase would not exist. As a matter of fact, we wouldn't have been anime fans without these edited anime. But the good news, a lot of anime that has been previously edited has now gotten uncut release, that's a good thing. The past is the past, just look at now and the future.


Sorry, but no, there already was a growing anime fanbase in the US prior to Robotech.


Yes but the fanbase grew exponentially after Robotech was shown. Robotech was the first time people were able to watch anime close to the original Japanese version, Robotech was almost uncut and the complex storyline was kept intact (well the Macross Saga of course). People still credit Carl Macek for helping bringing uncut anime to US, while previous anime like Star Blazers, Voltron still had plot altered, but Robotech kept it close to the original Japanese version. For Robotech: the movie, Carl Macek originally wanted to bring and dub Macross: Do you remember Love. DYRL was going to be Robotech: the movie instead of these 2 horrid titles. The reason DYRL didn't became Robotech: the movie because of Tatsunoko, Toho, and Cannon films. They were the reason why Robotech: the movie became infamous. Carl said in the ANNcast that he didn't like this project and since then don't want to bring it up. I feel sorry for him when he said that. I wish DYRL should've been Robotech: the movie, it would've been perfect and Carl said he would've kept the movie uncut with a dub. I wonder if DYRL in the US would've became Robotech: the movie (with the tagline: Do you remember Love) or Robotech: Do you remember Love? if Tatsunoko, and Cannon had allow Carl to dub the movie.

StudioToledo wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
I doubt anyone is going to do research or do a segment on Japanese dub on American cartoon. The only reason some people found out about Beast War and other American cartoon had alteration for the Japanese veron because of Youtube (people from Japan upload the Japanese dub and intro of American cartoon so people in US would find out that Japan did edit American cartoon).

And surely that's all there is to it, simply getting public exposure in a medium like YouTube is all we have (and I hate to admit I took advantage of that a decade ago looking up on such obscure, pointless things like what cartoons a person my age was watching in France back in the 80's. That sort of open-mindedness has always been with me for such a long time, it was finally killer to go and see what television was like across the Ocean than from the few VHS tapes I've tape-traded in the past or picking up distant signals from Canadian stations from my indoor antenna.

Reminded of once getting a tape with an episode of the 90's X-Men cartoon from a Japanese broadcast from a pal I know up in Canada and it was something to see what they had for the opening/closing tunes, but that sort of thing was often common in other countries were often highlighting local talent or other deals were made and often American/Foreign programs might see such alterations than to stay original to the source material. Several American shows like Love Boat and Mork & Mindy got pretty kickass themes in Italy I've noticed. It's kinda fun to notice these things, like the Italian theme to the first Lupin III series when that came over there, love to by that EP!

Quote:
If there's anyone in Japan that can speak English and has a huge amount of knowledge on American cartoon and has done research on censorship/editing of American animation in Japan, is there a way he/she can present it at a con so US anime fans can now realize that Japan is no different from US when it comes to editing foreign animation.

Which I'm sure is all fat chance that it will happen.

Quote:
Since you brought it up, now I wonder what changes dd Toho and HB did for the Japanese version of this show:


Wish I could help you there.


Well Kotaku and Hardcore Gaming 101 was nice enough to reveal Maniac Mansion and Police Quest 2 was severely altered for the Japanese release. Hopefully this could lead to reveal more old western games that has been altered for the Japanese version. I'm glad to see gaming news report on whatever western games get censored when they go to Japan. I think it's possible someone could investigate western cartoon in Japan and find out what western cartoon got censored/altered/edited for the Japanese release.

For what you said, I'm kinda happy people are curious how American show differ when they go to other countries (including Japan). I guess that's why those people don't complain about how US edit foreign stuff. But however, beside Beast Wars, there's no other show that's been severely edited. I know you can't help with Godzilla because the DVD isn't out in Japan and nobody on Youtube uploaded the Japanese dub so we don't know what kind of alteration Japan did to HB Godzilla. Well if people can reveal Beast Wars Japanse alteration, I'm sure other will upload other severe edits of American cartoon Japanese dub.
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Beltane70



Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 2625
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:48 pm Reply with quote
mdo7Did you actually watch Star Blazers? The plot for Space Battleship Yamato was left entirely intact. Sure, the names changed, and character deaths, except maybe Okita's were never shown, but at its core, the plot remained true to the original source material.

I'd hardly say that anime fandom grew "exponentially" after Robotech aired, considering that it would be a few years before we saw any other shows of any significance on TV. I'd give Dragonball Z more credit for the increased exposure of anime in the US before I would Robotech.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 5915
Location: Cypress, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:31 pm Reply with quote
Beltane70 wrote:
mdo7Did you actually watch Star Blazers? The plot for Space Battleship Yamato was left entirely intact. Sure, the names changed, and character deaths, except maybe Okita's were never shown, but at its core, the plot remained true to the original source material.

I'd hardly say that anime fandom grew "exponentially" after Robotech aired, considering that it would be a few years before we saw any other shows of any significance on TV. I'd give Dragonball Z more credit for the increased exposure of anime in the US before I would Robotech.


I did check Wikipedia and you're correct, Star Blazers did keep the plot intact but a it was heavily censored to fit TV standard and to market children. It was considered "adult" to most people who saw this back then. Star Blazers may have help Carl Macek on how to improve dub and not to completely censor and edit anime. But Star Blazers didn't have the big impact like Robotech did, when Star Blazers was released on DVD/VHS they didn't restored the censored scene (hopefully Voyager Entertainment could team up with Discotek to get the original uncut Space Battleship Yamato like the same way WEP team up with Media Blaster to get Go Lion and Dairugger XV the 2 anime that make up Voltron uncut). Robotech had violence and questionable content censored for TV, but the censored scene was restored when they release the show on VHS. It's been acknowledged that after Robotech, various companies like Central Park Media (formed in 1990), AnimEIGO (formed in 1988), and Streamline Picture (formed in 1988) was formed to help bring over anime in their uncut/almost intact form thanks to Robotech. This is how Robotech had help increase anime fandom exponentially, DBZ just made it better and with the help of the internet DVD, and blu-ray, the anime fandom wouldn't be what it is now. Add digital download and video streaming site (Hulu, Youtube) and the fandom just grew.
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StudioToledo



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Toledo, U.S.A.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:29 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
Well Kotaku and Hardcore Gaming 101 was nice enough to reveal Maniac Mansion and Police Quest 2 was severely altered for the Japanese release. Hopefully this could lead to reveal more old western games that has been altered for the Japanese version. I'm glad to see gaming news report on whatever western games get censored when they go to Japan. I think it's possible someone could investigate western cartoon in Japan and find out what western cartoon got censored/altered/edited for the Japanese release.

More black guys with outrageous hair needs to be shown!
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