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hissatsu01 wrote:

neocloud9 wrote:

Is it just me, or does the whole concept of this show seem really homophobic? Confused

I saw it as a rather strong satire of assorted yuri shows. Does anyone actually view yuri/yaoi as realistic depictions of lesbian/gay romance?

Not necessarily a realistic depiction. (After all, anime - like most other mediums - consists largely of idealized versions of reality.) But a positive depiction would be nice. We're still a minority in pop culture and entertainment, so a gay character's depiction carries much more weight than a straight character's, as heterosexuality is still by and large the default in fiction.

neocloud9 wrote:

hissatsu01 wrote:

neocloud9 wrote:

Is it just me, or does the whole concept of this show seem really homophobic? Confused

I saw it as a rather strong satire of assorted yuri shows. Does anyone actually view yuri/yaoi as realistic depictions of lesbian/gay romance?

Not necessarily a realistic depiction. (After all, anime - like most other mediums - consists largely of idealized versions of reality.) But a positive depiction would be nice. We're still a minority in pop culture and entertainment, so a gay character's depiction carries much more weight than a straight character's, as heterosexuality is still by and large the default in fiction.

Then you've got the wrong show, that's for sure. It's a satire because it was never to be taken seriously, both the yuri and bullying aspects were purposedly exaggerated to emphasize the humour in the show. Whether it works for you or not is up to your own tastes.

FYI there are only 5 or 6 Manga Volumes out right now. It was picked up really early. So there's hardly enough for another half season atm.

fireaxe wrote:

neocloud9 wrote:

hissatsu01 wrote:

neocloud9 wrote:

Is it just me, or does the whole concept of this show seem really homophobic? Confused

I saw it as a rather strong satire of assorted yuri shows. Does anyone actually view yuri/yaoi as realistic depictions of lesbian/gay romance?

Not necessarily a realistic depiction. (After all, anime - like most other mediums - consists largely of idealized versions of reality.) But a positive depiction would be nice. We're still a minority in pop culture and entertainment, so a gay character's depiction carries much more weight than a straight character's, as heterosexuality is still by and large the default in fiction.

Then you've got the wrong show, that's for sure. It's a satire because it was never to be taken seriously, both the yuri and bullying aspects were purposedly exaggerated to emphasize the humour in the show. Whether it works for you or not is up to your own tastes.

Yeah, I realize that. I'm just sad to see the man-hating lesbian pervert stereotype perpetuated in any genre. It's offensive.

Dorcas_Aurelia wrote:

Splitter wrote:

The problem is Mariya crosses the line of satire by just going into downright abuse, and Kanako crosses the line of satire by treating same-sex romance like a game. They're both incredibly dislikeable characters, and for that I personally saw no reason to go beyond the first episode.

The whole point of satire is that it is exaggerated. If Kanako followed her lesbian urges in a more realistic manner, it wouldn't be a parody anymore. When you're lampooning something, the more ridiculous and outrageous the portrayal, the better.

I know Kanako is an exaggerated archetype, but there's nothing about her actions that are particularly humorous. The series simply tries too hard to be funny rather than just do what comes naturally. Hell, the fact that they need to abuse her character to elicit a shred of humor from the series is proof of that. If I had seen any evidence in the first episode that somewhere down the line, there would be a more robust sense of parody, I most likely would have continued watching it, but I saw nothing but "point and laugh at the delusional fangirl for being an idiot" and I didn't care to watch 11 more episodes of it.

neocloud9 wrote:

Yeah, I realize that. I'm just sad to see the man-hating lesbian pervert stereotype perpetuated in any genre. It's offensive.

Hating? She nearly dies if she comes in contact with a man. That's no hate, she's just scared of them; as seen when her roommate "plays" with her.

Last edited by neocloud9 on Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:41 pm; edited 2 times in total

egoist wrote:

neocloud9 wrote:

Yeah, I realize that. I'm just sad to see the man-hating lesbian pervert stereotype perpetuated in any genre. It's offensive.

Hating? She nearly dies if she comes in contact with a man. That's no hate, she's just scared of them; as seen when her roommate "plays" with her.

Now that's an interesting quibble you have. But I'm afraid that the man-fearing lesbian stereotype is every bit as offensive as the man-hating stereotype. Lesbians don't like women because they dislike men. They like women because they like women.

Last edited by Cosplaybunny on Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

neocloud9 wrote:

Yeah, I realize that. I'm just sad to see the man-hating lesbian pervert stereotype perpetuated in any genre. It's offensive.

Since it is a satire, they are not necessarily approving this behavior, in fact usually it's the opposite. You wouldn't say that A Modest Proposal actually approves of eating babies. You might be taking this show too much at face value.

I'm glad to see a show take on the yuri genre. I haven't seen many "positive" gay/lesbian portrayals from the anime/manga. In the yuri I've seen, lesbians often have some kind of "excuse" for being a lesbian, which I'm glad to see Maria Holic is poking fun at. I've had this on my WTB list for a while now. Guess I'll need to go and pick this one up.

Cosplaybunny wrote:

neocloud9 wrote:

Yeah, I realize that. I'm just sad to see the man-hating lesbian pervert stereotype perpetuated in any genre. It's offensive.

Since it is a satire, they are not necessarily condoning this behavior, in fact usually it's the opposite. You wouldn't say that A Modest Proposal actually condones eating babies. You might be taking this show too much at face value.

Mmkay, I think I understand what you're getting at. So because this show is lampshading the negative portrayal of lesbians in yuri, it's therefore less offensive than if it were playing the stereotype (excuse my word choice) straight? Is that your stance?

neocloud9 wrote:

Cosplaybunny wrote:

neocloud9 wrote:

Yeah, I realize that. I'm just sad to see the man-hating lesbian pervert stereotype perpetuated in any genre. It's offensive.

Since it is a satire, they are not necessarily condoning this behavior, in fact usually it's the opposite. You wouldn't say that A Modest Proposal actually condones eating babies. You might be taking this show too much at face value.

Mmkay, I think I understand what you're getting at. So because this show is lamp shading the negative portrayal of lesbians in yuri, it's therefore less offensive than if it were playing the stereotype (excuse my word choice) straight? Is that your stance?

I think the show is exaggerating the issue in order to draw attention to it, yes. There's a character in Kashimashi that cannot see men, hence she is a lesbian. This show is poking fun at this kind of outlandish idea of lesbianism. This is one of several stereotypes I feel the show is lampooning.

Cosplaybunny wrote:

neocloud9 wrote:

Cosplaybunny wrote:

neocloud9 wrote:

Yeah, I realize that. I'm just sad to see the man-hating lesbian pervert stereotype perpetuated in any genre. It's offensive.

Since it is a satire, they are not necessarily condoning this behavior, in fact usually it's the opposite. You wouldn't say that A Modest Proposal actually condones eating babies. You might be taking this show too much at face value.

Mmkay, I think I understand what you're getting at. So because this show is lamp shading the negative portrayal of lesbians in yuri, it's therefore less offensive than if it were playing the stereotype (excuse my word choice) straight? Is that your stance?

I think the show is exaggerating the issue in order to draw attention to it, yes. There's a character in Kashimashi that cannot see men, hence she is a lesbian. This show is poking fun at this kind of outlandish idea of lesbianism. This is one of several stereotypes I feel the show is lampooning.

I definitely see your point. However, since positive portrayals of homosexual characters (lesbians in particular) are so few and far between, I'm still not as comfortable with this as I would be the shojo lampooning in something like Ouran High School Host Club, etc.

Last edited by mudduck454 on Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:20 am; edited 3 times in total

chrisb wrote:

Whoever chose the covers for this and Skullman at Sentai needs a serious promotion.

That is a matter of opinion, I like the original covers of the japanese release, the colors are lighter, and not bloody, it gives it a subtle feel,
edited for those who want to see a side buy side, click on cover for a biger look

I would have liked a thin pack using the original covers, and maybe the R1 version as a case for the thin pack

mudduck454 wrote:

chrisb wrote:

Whoever chose the covers for this and Skullman at Sentai needs a serious promotion.

That is a matter of opinion, I like the original covers of the japanese release, the colors are lighter, and not bloody, it gives it a subtle feel,

You're not alone Chrisb... Chris B. at Mania/AOD (no play on names intended Wink

) gave both titles covers of the month honors.

Mudduck, I can see where you're coming from. Personally, I think I would have preferred the preliminary cover Sentai had (which was this current one one with the R2 DVD 2 background, without the middle portions/blood of this current release). As is, I do like this fine though. However, subtle doesn't stand out at B&Ms where titles like these could use every bit of help.

Honestly, if you're looking for positive portrayals of anyone in a series like this then you're barking up the wrong tree. This series is all about poking fun at things and being weird, so interpreting it as having a specifically negative portrayal of, say, homosexuals suggests that it has more of an agenda than it is capable of mustering.

I watch pretty nearly every yuri series that comes out, partly because (in a prurient sense) a girl-girl relationship just gives me more girls to ogle and partly because I find it intriguing to see what effect having the same gender has on relationship dynamics. Based on that, there are essentially two common portrayals of lesbians in anime: the shy, girly one who's reluctant to admit her leanings (even to herself) and the aggressive one who may or may not be forthright to others about her proclivities but certainly actively pursues love interests, often to the degree that a horny male would. Kanako is a parody of the latter. Is either of these approaches accurate? Maybe in some cases, but nobody is (or at least should) be taking these as representative of all homosexuals. This is no more representative for all lesbians than Matsurika's portrayl is representative for all maids.

neocloud9 wrote:

Is it just me, or does the whole concept of this show seem really homophobic? Confused

More like gender stereotypical. Shows with characters that HATE men or HATE women get on my nerves pretty quickly. Why can't anyone get over their gender stereotypes and have a normal relationship with people, goddammit?!

Not to mention, I guess I'm just not cut out for yuri anime (particularly one like this where the main character is a libido raging pervert). How much time is wasted every time a new character is introduced and Kanako has to go, "OMG, she's so hot! Is she my fated love partner?!" for a minute and a half. That would get annoying even if the characters were straight.

egoist wrote:

neocloud9 wrote:

Yeah, I realize that. I'm just sad to see the man-hating lesbian pervert stereotype perpetuated in any genre. It's offensive.

Hating? She nearly dies if she comes in contact with a man. That's no hate, she's just scared of them; as seen when her roommate "plays" with her.

No, it's clearly hating as well. The physical illness is used more as an excuse and comedy tool than anything else.

neocloud9 wrote:

Lesbians don't like women because they dislike men. They like women because they like women.

I don't think anyone's stupid enough to believe the homosexuals like the same sex because they dislike the opposite sex. So the whole concept of this show is absurdly satirical.

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