Forum - View topicNEWS: LA Times Article on Fansubs
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Steve007101
Posts: 165 Location: IL, USA |
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In reguards to my previous post, you'll notice I said "We should be able to get the idea already" which I was using to try and imply that it sounds like we haven't since no one seems to be commenting much on the heart of the matter. And "This certainly is a tired debate with nothing even being debated anymore if no one really addresses the direct topic" I used to try and refer to the current state of the date, notice the words anymore and if since I definetly do encourage people to discuss this, just that it doesn't look good right now. Or at least this is what I was trying to say, after all you don't see me not posting here now do you.
Isaaru: yes I agree that one of the ways fan subs get the attention of the masses is the claim of authenticity. And Serilia: in reguards to that I believe my first post discussed that already and I agree. |
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beelzebozo
 Posts: 308 Location: Aurora, Colorado |
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Why don't you just rip the DVD to your hard drive? |
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Hso
Posts: 13 Location: England |
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(I have no idea if this is being sent to the right place, but i'll have a go anyway
 If this doesn't turn up in the right place, could an admin move it to the correct place, please? ^^)
1. American distributors blame fansubbers for their lack of sales/money making for a certain series. But, I personally think that it's not the Fansubbers who are at fault. I think that's it's the American distributor, themselves. They seem to have almost no idea of what series people will like enough to watch and buy. But, if by some fluke they manage to pick out a good show they know will make them tonnes of cash, they go and ruin it by releasing the dvds like 5 or so months AFTER everyone has already seen it and are no longer interested in it anymore. And they STILL blame fansubbers 
2. I agree that there may never be an agreement between Fansubbers and Dubbers when talking about the cease stop a licensed show. But that's only because the Dubbers aren't making enough effort to do so. I reckon, that if they make a formal contract with a small cash sum or free DVD(s) of the anime in topic to the fansubbing group, then they /might/ stop fansubbing it. However, no one can seem to stop a group from releasing under a different name. So I guess that blows a giant black hole in this theory. 3. I believe that 75% of people ONLY buy dubbed DVDs for the subtitled section of it. However, the quality of the subs are HORRID, at best. So, I propose that Anime Distributors actually hire GOOD* fansub groups to make a DECENT subbed section of the DVD that people will actually WANT to pay for and watch! 
Or, failing that idea. Perhaps the dubbing company could License the fansubbed script and use it in their DVD? That way, everyone is happy ^^ *(AonE/A-Kraze/ANBU/A-E/etc - not Soldats, they'll never release anything ~_~). 4. Can someone perhaps download that news article and host it somewhere so people can read it, please? 5. What the hell is with putting textless OP/ED videos on dvds? How many people ever use them?! They should use that DVD space to add something decent like Karaoke'd OP/ED videos or more artwork. |
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Steve007101
Posts: 165 Location: IL, USA |
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This is going to be another long one I probably won't finish right now...
Hso: Yes, this is actually fairly relavent to the subject. To address your points: 1 - American dubbers can and do use the fansubbers for information purposes but one of my previous points was that there really is little need to which someone else also already said since today Anime is a fairly big thing they have plenty of information on it. And it's all fair game until the dubbers liscense it, then they can go after them if they'd like for still distributing them at all. 2 and 3 - It probably won't be an agreement but more of a legal proclemation, as I said they would have full legal right to stop them after they have the liscense so they of course have the advantage on that but can be nice about it and take them in if they'd like. 4 - don't ask me 5 - the creditless openings and endings are more FOR the sake of art as far as I know but yes, karaoke is good and on MPEG2 just normal art pictures are so small that it makes little impact on them. |
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Kazuki-san
 Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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I've held off commenting on this for quite awhile, but I have to respond to this. First off, yes, they have a pretty good idea what people will buy. They are in the business to make money, and anything they license that doesn't make money is a waste to them. Second, of course it takes awhile for them to get the DVDs out, seeing as they have to do all kinds of work fansubbers don't like, sending scripts etc. back and forth to Japan for approval, dubbing, DVD authoring, etc. Since fansubbers SHOULD stop releases once a series is licensed, for the most part, nobody should be able to see all of most new series, as they are generally licensed before they finish their run.
And why exactly would the companies be at fault? They are not the ones breaking the law, nor should they payoff fansubbers to stop subbing shows that THEY own the rights to.
Wrong, there is a portion of the fandom that prefers subs only, but by far most people want DUBBED anime.
Wrong again. The professional translations are usually spot on, to very close to it. There are a couple of companies that don't do as good a job, and of course, a few titles where translation could be improved. On the other hand, most fansubs groups have rather pathetic translations riddled with errors. Good subbing groups are among the minority of fansub groups.
Karaoke is about as worthless as textless. Last edited by Kazuki-san on Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bluechibi
Posts: 137 |
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The american distrubutors dont need 10,000s of fans to illegally download anime just to tell them they like the series only for those same people to end up NOT buying the DVD or watching it on TV.
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Sir_Brass
 Posts: 476 Location: Prescott, AZ |
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because that takes software I don't have and the quality of the rip is dependant upon my processor being able to sample fast enough. It's far easier to keep the fansubs rather than delete them when I buy the series, then just rip the dvds to my HD. Why waste the time? Unless I've got a truly crappy fansub (*cough*AJ*cough*), then that file is fairly high quality and I like it just fine. That's why I still have my escaflowne fansubs even though I OWN the DVDs. Same with Crest of the Stars, Stellvia, etc. |
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Rigor Mortis
Posts: 6 |
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What are you smoking, and where can I get some? Either that or you have absolutely no idea how the world works P.S.dubs outsell subs by a factor of 10 to 1. Learn the facts before you open your mouth. I'm not even going to get into your belief that fansubs are more accurate. |
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Rigor Mortis
Posts: 6 |
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Grab DVDshrink and Daemon Tools. They're both freeware. DVD shrink will rip the DVD to an image with as much or as little compression as you want, at perfect quality in a matter of minutes if you do it without additional compression. Then mount the image to a virtual drive with Daemon Tools and play it with your DVD playing utility. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Not saying I disagree, statistics during the VHS days bears that out, but if that IS indeed the case, "fansub" impact should be neglegible as they're NOT dubbed. I think an "ideal" solution would be if fansubbers ONLY showed their work at anime cons. The masses could see the shows and the "distribution" would be limited. Obviously that's a "dream world" scenario. In the REAL world, the heart of the matter is "do fansubs TAKE more sales then they ADD?" Honestly, I can't say for certain "no" they do not, but I also wouldn't be so quick to cite examples (like Nuku Nuku) as evidence that they do. It was noted that companies saw higher sales of late volumes when normally early volumes have high sales. Why is that? It's for the same reason that companies started removing "volume numbers" from their packaging. Rental chains decided NOT to by some series because they were so "long" and thus they wouldn't be able to rent out the later volumes when people decided early ones were garbage (or not worth watching). I'd say they're losing only those fans that would buy the early volumes that would stop once they see it's "crap". I've seen the "Nuku Nuku" example before, do we know the spread? If the average buy of 1st vols is say 100 with late being 20/100, and the Nuku Nuku late buy is say 40/100 with the then early pickup being the 20/100 that will buy as above. In this case, the fansubs are obviously hurting sales because you've got 80% who will "try" the series for money, who will never buy the rest (for whatever reason) as opposed to 20% who will care enough to see how it ends but don't want the early episodes that they've seen. Of course, this would only "work" in comparing the same series in differently distributed regions, if you're comparing sales of "Nuku Nuku" to a series that only goes downhill after DVD 1, it's an unfair comparison. And it's also a question of what's IN the later vols (I have the Kyoto Arc of Kenshin but none of the early DVDs). But if the range between the numbers is smaller, are the fansubs hurting "overall" sales, or simply changing the sales dynamic? But as was stated, there are WAY to many people that simply AREN'T going to buy anime DVDs whether there's fansubs or not. How many people will watch South Park if you flip the channel to Comedy Central and it's on? How many people will buy the DVDs for it? (I'm guessing MANY less than the previous) Now how many would buy those DVDs sight unseen without any other exposure to the series except maybe a flyer or magazine insert? (again, I'd guess MANY less than the previous) How much is South Park losing in sales to online episodes? Look, here's the bottom line, DVD sales of a series (not a movie, which have a WHOLE different sales dynamic and I'd be a LOT more inclined to agree with "no fansubs" ideals on) are a "niche" market. Stargate, Star Trek, Buffy, Simpsons, etc. aren't going to sell to "mainstream" people, because they don't NEED (or maybe even WANT) to own every episode of a series. Series collections sell to "fans" because they DO want them. I'd MUCH prefer the companies get a "realistic" view of their market and tailor their sales to the market (even if it's not as "big" as mainstream America) than wait for the inevitable end of the "anime fad" and see the companies fall apart when "popular" sales dwindle (ala. American Comic Books). On a related note, whether or not fansubs help or hurt DVD sales, I'd argue they are a HUGE boost to the current "anime merchandise" industry. I'd say for every DVD sale lost (Japanese?) companies have seen a boost in merchandise sales. Is the loss equivalent? I dunno, but I'd argue that it is there. People who might never actually buy Naruto DVDs are DEFINITELY buying Naruto merchandise.[/quote] Last edited by HeeroTX on Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sir_Brass
Posts: 476 Location: Prescott, AZ |
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And I'd want to do this when I've got a perfectly good fansub, because . . . ? All the claims that fansubbers (not speedsubbers. learn the difference before tossing around accusations) have horrid translations is total bs. Speedsubbers have the crappy translations and only those NOT willing to wait for the quality groups to release eps are the ones who will download that garbage. I'm VERY picky when it comes to anime, and that means I find the fansub group who does the best job for the series currently airing that I like and I stick with them. Sure the number of good groups is small, but if you ever look at the fansub collecting community, you'll see that the vast majority of their collections are releases from those few quality groups. Example: the sub diff between my fansubs of Stellvia and the DVD's subs is only in choice of synonyms or sentence structure that doesn't alter meaning. Both the fansub's translator and the professional translator translated correctly, and the difference in the subs had NO difference in meaning, rather only in style. This is how it is with all the fansubs I have: the professional subs on the DVDs only differ from the fansub's translator in style only for the most part (there are the occassional minor errors, but they're very hard to detect. heck, I've even caught an error in the professional translation on Crest of the Stars where the sub has Jinto saying "Something or rather" instead of the CORRECT phrase of "Something or other". literal meaning is the same, but the actual usage is wrong as NO ONE says "something or rather"). |
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Tenkaido
 Posts: 10 |
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Like some others have said; The companies that license these shows may not completely agree with fansubbers' ethics, but they do use them to do market research. I'm sure they watch them very closely, if only to see what's popular at the time. Ex: "Oh look, this show called Naruto is being subbed and downloaded a lot. We should license that to make some money." (Sorry for using such an obvious example). So, in that way fansubbers are actually helping the industry, at least a little bit.
Also, about the people that won't buy DVD's because they say they don't like the English VA's; which is probably a very small percentage of fans. As most DVD's these days are hybrid, (English and Japanese audio tracks) it's kind of a moot point. I just felt like I had to add my 2¢ to this topic. |
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Steve007101
Posts: 165 Location: IL, USA |
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I'd definetly like to thank HeeroTX for posting, that was a good post. You're right on many notes there, nothing I really strongly feel the need to address except that it's good to see someone posting with a new take on the topic (being the way fansubbers and dubbers can co-exist), the fact that it isn't so simple, and that over-all things reguarding both of them still just serve to enlarge the anime industry either way, very nice points.
Personally, I have all of Naruto fansubbed downloaded and I definetly can't wait until we have the Naruto games over here. |
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Kazuki-san
Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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The problem comes that dubbed is merely a preference. When faced with the prospect of seeing a series as it is airing in Japan, couple with the non-existent cost of fansubs, a conflict ensues. There are those that get the fansubs, and forgo buying the DVDs because they believe they are too expensive, and there are also those who are buying other series and just "never get around" to buying the DVDs.
I'm not sure who you can make that statement. While there is a large portion of the fandom that buys related merchandise, there is an equally large portion that are only interested in the series itself. Those types of people will not be adding any money into the merchandise market whether they pay for DVDs or not. |
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cyrax777
 Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
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I've said it before and ill say agien I still say the majority of the fandom ie not us. Doesnt know wtf a fansub is. Im talking the casual fan who watches his stuff off CN grabs the occsinal dvd from suncoast or whatever. They do make up a larger % of the fandom then we do. We are just more vocal about our fandom then them.
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. I spent to much time dling them to delete them, and besides, it's not like I'm distributing them either. The buck stops when it gets to my HD. It also makes for more battery life on my laptop if the media player is reading from the HD rather than the DVD drive, thus the DVD drive draining current like it's no one's business, thus meaning that I can watch my anime while flying without having to pack DVDs into my carry on. But that is just me. 
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