Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2006-08-18]
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zalas
Posts: 100 |
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If you ignore market economics, then the amount of episodes you can fit on a disc purely varies indirectly with the video quality. The more episodes you cram on a disc, the crappier they look. Just because you can't see the difference on your TV doesn't mean someone else couldn't on their set. Putting 4 discs on a single-layer DVD is already pushing it in terms of image quality. Most Japanese R2 releases put at most 2-3 episodes on a single layer disc, with the former being more common. Even at that high of a bitrate, there are sometimes small artifacts you can see, such as the mosquito noise present on all the AIR opening videos. Given how poorly MPEG2 performs compared to MPEG4, your 540MB episode is probably going to look even worse than a fansub.
Just to nitpick here, but at least my Stargate SG-1 season 1 disc 1 is on a dual layer DVD with about 185 minutes of footage. It uses roughly 8235599790 bytes of storage. A single layer DVD is only 4700000000 bytes. Thus, if you use the same bitrate that SG-1 is using, you get ~105 minutes, which is a little over 4 anime episodes. Note that live action generally compresses better than anime, since there are no real harsh lines in the live action and that the original JPEG compression algorithm upon which intraframe coding is loosely based on was tailored and optimized for natural images. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6867 Location: Kazune City |
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The problem with putting more episodes on a disc is that they'd have to charge more for a disc at some point, meaning MSRPs of $40-$50, discounted to around $30-$35 -- Funi tried it with Fruits Basket, and it didn't really work. Plus, I've seen bootlegs with 8, 9, even 10 episodes per disc, and even being a noob and not having access to the real thing for comparison, I could tell that the video quality was bad, with all the pixellation and interlacing artifacts that popped up. And ladholyman, I appreciate all the efforts, though I've never watched that frog show. I did watch that gender-transformation-lesbian-love-triangle series, though 
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Steventheeunuch
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i'm not disagreeing on how much stargate has, I'm simply saying that well.. it can be done  .
Another thing to bring up is that Animation, specifically 2d animation, does require a higher bitrate compred to live action, given that blocking is more noticable since it uses thick outlines and more solid colours. Anyway, the last major push for 4 eps per 26 episode series (Fruits Basket) was initially considered a failure until they redid it. |
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erinfinnegan
ANN Columnist
 Posts: 598 |
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I do have a lot of respect for your (Zac's) opinions - but somehow I've lost respect as you've implied several times (and sometimes said outright) that I'm an idiot. I used to think it was funny when you call other people idiots... I guess I've learned something from this exchange!
I would think that ADV licenses a few big "blockbuster" titles every year which will be their breadwinners and help them support smaller niche titles that don't stand to make much of a profit. ADV is not Hollywood, so I might be wrong. But one would think that by buying any niche ADV title one is encouraging ADV to import more niche titles. As a fan of Princess Tutu I realize that ADV was taking a tremendous risk by importing the show. It has the words "Princess" and "Tutu" in the title. It's a very hard sell. I wonder how much they paid for the license... if it was cheap enough, they were betting on that 99 to 1 horse and hoping for the big payoff if it succeeded. All businesses take risks, but if I were ADV I wouldn't have gambled on Tutu. Even though I'm a fan of the show, I think it was a poor choice on ADV's part to import it. When loads of Princess Tutu DVDs go on sale because they didn't sell, it's my gain that the price will have dropped.
I'd like to point out that I am not one of the fans screaming for companies to import unsellable shows! Inversely I don't lurk in the AoD forums telling companies what not to license - I can only imagine I would be awesomely popular if I did so. Let's say that Princess Tutu had failed so abysmally that ADV never released the last two volumes. Sure, it'd be a shame, and I might be partially to blame as a fan of the show who didn't buy it soon enough, but it also wouldn't be much of a surprise. I love niche shows but I recognize that the American market can't support all the crazy crap I like to watch like Chosoku Spinner (it's about yo-yos) or Oishinbo (The Gourmet). I think RightStuf is doing a good job releasing the second season of SuperGals - I loved the first season but long believed the second season wouldn't be fiscally reasonable to import. RightStuf is doing a specialized release that the series warrants for such a small audience. Maybe ADV should've done the same with Tutu! Ironically one of the reasons I picked up all of SuperGals in the first place was because of drastic price drops and ADV sales, because like with Princess Tutu, they took a gamble on SuperGals and lost. Their loss is my bargain-hunting gain. I guess I am the true money-grubber here. Perhaps I really am an idiot and a bargain-hunter and not a true "fan" of anime. (Regardless, I work in animation and am going to be unemployed in a couple of months.) I feel really weird that by posting my snide comment about a thinpack that I got several people to purchase Princess Tutu based on this thread! |
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Strategos
 Posts: 91 Location: Ohio |
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With all this talk of supporting smaller titles, everyone remember to go out and buy KimiNozo (Rumbling Hearts) when it is released this winter!! Horrah!
Seriously, buy the singles...that and the Crest of the Stars novels...buy 2 copies of those, I want the newer Banner novels translated as well. Same for the Twelve Kingdoms novels in March |
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Strategos
Posts: 91 Location: Ohio |
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I think the only thing this thread has proven is that if Zac wasn't such a pompous dick when replying to other's posts, and if he took a few seconds to consider someone else's opinion and realize that his own my not be "the universal truth", that these threads would be alot shorter and friendlier.
Seriously man, your posts are often harsh and unnecessarily crude. Disagreeing is fine, but you need to lay of the "I am the God of all that is anime and everything possibly related to it" routine. I'm not defending all of the people you have replied to, but you are just fanning the flames of discontent among your peers instead of trying to discuss issues and sharing opinions with others. You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar line of thinking I believe? I value your opinions because I realize you have a great deal more experience with these issues than others, but your e-attitude makes me want to smash your face into a jelly. Let's just hope this doesn't get deleted. *crosses fingers* |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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I come across that way because I think I'm right and I assert myself as such. I don't feel the need to tell others that they "might also be right" when I personally feel that they're completely wrong. Nobody else on this forum acts like their opinion isn't right, so why am I being held to a different standard? I argue that way because I think I'm right. The possibility exists that I'm wrong (and generally I'm the first person to say so when I am), but nobody's given me any compelling arguments to suggest that I am. I'm not looking for a 'short' thread, I'm looking for long, healthy debate. Agreeing to disagree on everything and taking the "well everything's subjective so it's a waste of time to discuss or debate anything!" is boring and runs totally counter to the point of the rant section and the column's guiding philosophy. Also, I'd like you to find one example where I'm "crude". Yes, I'm harsh, but that's how I am, and it's how I've been for years and years. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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I haven't called you an idiot. I said I strongly disagreed with your perspective on the issue and I used your post as an example of what I think is wrong with some fans' line of thinking when it comes to niche releases. You're entitled to do whatever you please, obviously. I simply have a strong opinion on the matter. I don't think you're an idiot or a "bad fan" or any of that, I just think you're wrong and a little selfish in your line of thinking on niche titles. That's no huge insult, it's just how I feel about it. I apologize if you got the impression that I thought you were an idiot. I don't feel that way at all. |
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Daemonblue
 Posts: 701 |
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Already planned to get both Kiminozo and COTS, wasn't sure when the COTS novels were coming out, if they weren't already. Kiminozo is just simply one of the best romance animes I've seen so far, as well as Hantsuki, and I think a lot of people would really like it once they've watched it. I think using this anime as a precursor of what's to come was a very good choice indeed as it has the ability to pull many people into anime fandom, and will show that not all anime is action. |
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PantsGoblin
 SubscriberEncyclopedia Editor  Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
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I wouldn't say rarely. I can think think of quite a bit (like at least 7 off the top of my head). Actually, more than I can think of ones specifically aimed at girls. Most of them just aren't licensed in the US though. I can also think of a lot of hentai games based around the theme (magical girl = popular theme in hentai games). |
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indrik
 Posts: 365 Location: yonder |
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So I've heard about ADV licensing Azumanga Daioh because it had such a strong following in the fansub community, and I've heard about Serenity coming about because of the strong Firefly dvd sales. Are there other examples of either of these? Anime that were picked up because of fansubs, where somebody has actually, explicitly said it was because of fansubs, or series that were continued in one way or another because of dvd sales? Is the Azumanga Daioh story accurate?
I'm asking, I don't know.
Everybody works this way. It's the trend in business since about 2001. Before that, everybody was focusing on a few high volume, big seller type lines/items/widgets/whatever. When bad times hit, you saw a lot of big companies go under because their one big performer couldn't weather high energy costs or raw material price increases, or maybe the lack of disposable income in the masses. Now, the focus is on diversity, but more than that, profitability: it doesn't matter so much how much something makes, but that it actually does make money. From that point of view, what Zac's saying about Tutu and box sets makes perfect sense: if it doesn't make money, it's going to go away, regardless of other factors. It seems to me that box sets are a last little push to make some extra money out of a series, or maybe push it over the top. I bet that there's probably a strong correlation between how many individual volumes of a series sell and how many box sets sell, and if the individuals don't sell, you won't see a box set. I'm sure ADV (et al) have people who sit down and look at fansubs and downloads and market buzz and decide how much they can pay for a series, how many units they've got to sell to make money, and all that before they even start talking to companies about licensing things. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they've got a plan, if we sell X Princess Tutu we'll do a box in Y months, if we sell Z boxes will do a thinpak... etc. I bet that most of those projections are pretty accurate, but every now and then, you get one that's way more or less popular than you thought it would be. I'm sure, too, that they're not going to think of Princess Tutu when they think about licensing Zettai Shonen. Both probably niche titles, but the niches are probably very different, I would think. If Tutu sells, we'll see more of that. If not, we'll see more like... well, whatever sells. Disclaimer: I have no idea what I'm talking about. I can tell you it works in paint, but I'm extrapolating to anime. I have no idea if it's valid or not, but it looks like a good analogy to me. Side note: I've got a four year old daughter running around in a tutu *right now*. Sounds like I'll have to look into this Princess Tutu thing. |
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kirtai
 Posts: 10 |
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As to the entire "we-should-support-the-industry" debate, I think people are making generalizations and getting up in arms for no good reason. I totally agree with Zac that it is up to support the industry. I also agree that we're only people with limited budgets and we can't all go out and buy up everything on Best Buy's shelf.
But I don't think he (Zac) is suggesting that we do that. There is a middle ground. Let us compare to video game platforms. I believe the Gamecube came on the scene at around $150. I have always enjoyed nintendo's products, but didn't really want to splurge on a console at the time. Some time later, the price was dropped to $99 and it was attractively bundled with Zelda games. I happened to see a poster advertising this fact while walking past Gamestop, thought to myself, "What a deal!" and bought it. Some people were upset that they paid $150 earlier and didn't get the goodies. Likewise, the PSP came out in March 05 at $299. I found this device fascinating, and was waiting in line to pick one up. Recently, the price has dropped on PSPs, to $199. I could be upset. But, I'm not. I realize that the game industry, like the anime industry, has two sets of fans; 1st string fans and 2nd string fans. The first stringers want their product, and they will do what it takes to get it. The 2nd stringers come from behind, picking up the stuff that 1st stringers have told them about or made successful through massive purchases, sometimes because they are a good deal. It takes both kinds for the industry to work, and you don't have to exclusively be one or the other. Buy the stuff you really want when it comes out, then wait for the other stuff that comes your way at a good price. |
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Keonyn
Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Kirtai is pretty much right, there is a balance to be had. There are those that have to have it now and those that can wait until the cheaper alternative shows up. Similarly there's titles you can seperate which is how I work it. There are some titles that interest me to the point I go out and pick them up as they are released, then there's others that interest me but not to that point so I simply wait for the box set or other alternative and pick it up at that point. There's also the rental option to toss in a 3rd tier, in that you don't always have to buy it to still show some degree of support and with companies like Netflix the rental option is far more viable now than it once was.
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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That's all well and good, but (I believe, I don't wanna speak for anyone after a previous kablooie) what Zac was pointing to was something more like the Sega Dreamcast. You can buy and support the console and then if enough people do that, see a newer console later because Sega keeps rolling with that business. OR, you can argue till you're blue in the face that it's an awesome console that everyone should love, but never buy it (or buy it used later on) so Sega never sees the sales and then gets out of that market altogether. It's a little different with anime because they're not going to totally leave the game, but they'll stop licensing certain types of titles, and in some cases, possibly stop releasing a certain title if it's long but not doing well. I would assume it will see a full release, but I'll be curious to see how Naruto does when the domestic releases hit the long stretch of filler. |
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Iritscen
 Posts: 793 |
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I just want to touch briefly on my earlier point about how it doesn't make sense to buy the singles when you know they are going to release the box set, and you know they wouldn't release the box set if it wasn't profitable...
Some people have since posted that dubbers do NOT make a profit on box sets, that they rely on singles sales to make the real money. If this is true, then it's a good point. I just don't know that any of those people actually know anything about the bottom line at dubbing companies, so I don't know how they can make this statement. But if it's true I will have to change the way I think about supporting niche titles (although in practice I actually do buy singles anyway most of the time, because I'm too impatient for the box set). And I'd just like to state my opinion on the whole fansub-serves-as-advertisement theory: How many anime watchers also watch fansubs? I think a survey would find that few of us have ventured into the unseemly corners of the Internet where these fansubs are found. Only hardcore fans are going there anyway. So a little word-of-mouth takes place, so what? I won't deny the value of a sampler (I love the discs I get with Newtype), but reviews are sufficient for that, as they are with most things in life. For the casual anime fan, fansubs are irrelevant, and, dare I say, more than a little "nerdy" since they don't understand needing to see things the minute they come out in Japan, so the ultimate success of something as Big as FMA or Naruto owes nothing to fansubbers. NOTHING. I also would just like to say AHA! to the statement that ADV and others companies pander to the casual fan. Perhaps that explains their shameless promotion of anime based on boobs and bazookas lately. Because that really chafes me. |
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