Forum - View topicNEWS: Fate/Grand Order Smartphone Game to Run Fate/Zero Special Event
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Renasviel
Posts: 143 |
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Standards, certain expectations for an entry into the Fate/ multiverse that is considered legit and fully canon to the main line series (stay night, ataraxia, etc). I suppose, to put it more bluntly, it would have to offer an exciting story that expands on the lore significantly and offers plenty of twists, as an experiences captures the "Fate/ feel" and otherwise is a high-quality entry into the series. If they want it to be considered as such, then it is important to remember that is not getting held to the same standards as, say, Extra or Kaleid Liner, which are both fun in their own right but probably not as widely revered as the mainline Fate/ entries, it is supposedly the canon continuation on the mainline series that spans the entire multiverse. That's a big, epic task it should be fulfilling, a massive crossover love letter to fans celebrating all things Fate/ all things Type Moon even. Grand Order doesn't meet those standards. I can't speak for the story as I've said, but that is one aspect of Grand Order. The story isn't the only Fate/ thing about Grand Order, the entire thing is. Now, you can argue as a mobage, it's ok (I would strongly disagree). You can argue that the gameplay is a fun little distraction. Ultimately, it doesn't matter, because it is not supposed to be a fun little distraction, it's supposed to be a full-on Fate/ entry. And as a full Fate/ entry, the experience Grand Order offers is woefully short. Stay Night has passionate fans. Fans who will defend it to the hilt. Hollow Ataraxia does, albeit less so. As does Zero, which I do consider mainline but others disagree. Grand Order, compared to them, as an experience overall, is poor. And that's on them. If they want to say that Grand Order is a full on fate/ title, then it gets held to the same expectations that comes with it (which was what I was meaning by standards), and I don't think I'm assuming too much here by saying that not many feel Fate/ Grand Order meets those expectations. @Alabaster Spectrum Nasu claiming it is to expand the Fate/ audience is honestly laughable. It truly is. This type of game is not very appealing to people who aren't fans of the IP, because the main thing that keeps one coming back to it is getting the Servants you want - it's not the gameplay, or the story for most people, but the servants. Now, I'd maybe believe it more if they were better at coming out with content, but they are horribly slow with it, often 3 or 4 times slower than the average for those type of games. In fact, I'd wager the only reason people have stuck with it at all is because they are big fans of Fate. I agree also in what you say regarding the brands quality level lowering. As I say, if quality along the lines of Grand Order is what we can expect then it is very worrying for Fate/ in general. Extella doesn't fill me with confidence either. Zero introduced a lot of new fans to the IP, myself included, and many of them have looked at the wider verse and found a lot of it to be lacking. I think that is fair. I've enjoyed a lot of the entries myself - I enjoyed Extra, despite its gameplay flaws, I enjoy Kaleid Liner, same for Hollow Ataraxia and Apocrypha. I still have Zero above them, but I think they were fun in their own rights. That said, I can definitely see why people would be disillusioned with them. As for the fanbase, I think you've proven another example of why it is, whether it is a minority who are vocal or a majority, cancerous at times. You can't ever be right, unless you started with the visual novel (which is a medium that does not suit a lot of people given its heavy reliance on text and pacing flaws) and you get fans like kotelo_ who have made it their life's mission to hate on Zero at every mention of it, bringing down anyone who dares to say they enjoyed it or they consider it to be the best entry into the series. It's quite sad really. I can see why someone would turn away when faced with this - people like to discuss things, they don't like to be shouted down angrily for daring to have started in a different order to how the hivemind determined it should be. All I can say man, is if you do decide to explore more of the Fate/ verse, I hope you enjoy it and the best thing to do is avoid discussion of it as much as possible because no matter what your thoughts are on it, if it is slightly different to how it has been decreed it should be liked you'll get an earful. It really is a shame, because I think it has great ideas as a multiverse, but poor executions and one of the worst fanbases going from my experience really drag it down. |
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Dab1za9
Posts: 68 |
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Can i just say that TM have the worst haterbase ? and F/Zero fans are also annoying as hell ?
I take that by saying that it is nothing bad since you guys are also shitting on TM Fans and appearing to be the victims for the evil fanbase. I am kinda glad TM don't care about the west because honestly discussing TM stuff with Japanese are much better be it with a hater or a fan. and yeah please continue discussing as i said you are wasting your time and no one cars. |
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mglittlerobin
 Posts: 1071 |
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Oh don't get me started on the Type Loonies, they whine at you if even one little bit of your fanfic doesn't fit with the precious Nasuverse. And I hate Fate/Zero Loonies who think that grim dark is the only way the Fate franchise should be. I love the Fate franchise as much as the next fan, but the reason the haters are so annoying is because the fans can be really, really annoying. |
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Renasviel
Posts: 143 |
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I'm not shitting on Type Moon fans. I'm shitting on a group of Type Moon fans that make it their mission to ruin it for everyone else. Admittedly, Zero also has annoying fans. The reason I don't mention them is because the former always seem to find their way into every corner in which Type Moon is discussed, while the latter, in my experience at least, are more uncommon. I also don't hate Type Moon. I hate what they're becoming, and I honestly feel that they are one of the worst companies out there, at least in this industry, in terms of how they treat their fans. I don't say this because I hate them, quite the opposite. I say this because I like them, and I want to see them do better than what they have been doing. Fate/ has made them so much money, there is no reason why we haven't had the Tsukihime remake for instance. Contrary to what appears to be your belief - I am allowed to be a fan of Type Moon and at the same time call them out when I disagree with moves they make and complain about them when I feel they are giving us a sub-par product out of laziness. Being a fan isn't simply lapping up everything they give us and deluding ourselves into thinking it is all wonderful and we should be happy for it. Sometimes, companies need to think of their fans and actually reward them for their loyalty, and I feel like Type Moon has utterly failed in this regard lately, and it bothers me. Grand Order is a perfect example of this sentiment. What should be a big labour of love for the fans of Fate/ and the Type Moon verse as a whole, is ultimately a cynical and poorly-executed product designed not as a labour of love, or a thank you for the fans, but as a way to exploit them and get as much money as they can from them, and it sucks. And people seem to think that the latter is just natural for a business. I disagree. A game can still be a labour of love for the fans and also be made to make money. Look at my favourite game series, Ratchet and Clank, for instance. There have been many games over the years from Ratchet and Clank that have been love letters to the fans, A Crack in Time being the best example. That game, of course, was intended to make money, as much as possible, but they packed it with so much care for the existing fans that it was a real joy. The point being, I have no issue with Grand Order being made to make money. That's obvious. I do have an issue with the way they go about it, and in the process, the complete lack of care and respect that they show for the fans. It is clear that Type Moon take them for granted and don't really care about their wants, and that is not a good position for a company to take.
Wow, is all I can say.
Well clearly, you do if you are bothering to respond. I am perfectly entitled to sharing my opinion on something just as you are entitled to disagree with it. That's kind of the point of a discussion boards - not one-way circle jerks where we all sing Type Moon's praises and never complain about anything they do regardless of what we really feel about it. |
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Dab1za9
Posts: 68 |
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You are also making your mission to point how bad Fate/GO is and how annoying some of TM Fans, you are just exactly what you are criticizing. You don't know about the money just because the BD/DVD for their animes sells well doesn't mean they have tons of money lying around(Aniplex gets most of that) Nasu have said multiply times that budget handicapped him in Fate/Extra series and even some of the servants planned for that game only made to Fate/Go which is a way for them to get money(you are right in that) and also to please the fans because i am completely enjoying it at the moment and lots of fans too just because you don't like doesn't mean it is a badly executed product because for what i see Fate/Go has a good story(i can read it), good combat system, the animation for the new servant is great and clearly show how the game devolved since its disastrous release(Which was also because the lack money DW was founded by only 10 Million Yens) and everything have been improving like the servers(which admittedly needs more), and since you cant read Japanese i dont really know how you got that TM failed to reward its fans, Have you read Extra CCC ? you know the game that most people who played said it is the best entry in the series ? or even read TM Book like Meteo novel ? or Fate/strange fake or Fragment because no matter how i look at these stuff they are easily better than what TM used to produce back then and how do know about the care of respect/care for Fate/Go when a DW employee acknowledged the early problems with it and apologized and even commented about how TM Supervision is very strict. You also don't get stuff like Tsukihime because yeah if the director is the same as Mahoyo he is probably obsessing over every small detail(Mahoyo scenario was finished 2 years before the game release) but in technical level it put every VN to shame. |
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Renasviel
Posts: 143 |
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How? By raising the point? It's not like I go round to every Grand Order related discussion to complain about it.
False. I don't know if you've read Answerman articles on this site, but there was one where Justin explained where the money goes. It goes to the production committee, which includes Type Moon. Aniplex may well get a bigger share, but add in all the merchandise that Fate/ produces and Type Moon will get getting millions upon millions regardless. Fate/ nowadays does not struggle with budget at all, as evidenced by the anime series actually, which are some of the highest budget series out there. Even for the new Fate/Extra anime, Shaft basically have said that budget isn't an issue.
Right, but I'm not saying it is impossible to enjoy. I'm saying there is no love for the fans in Grand Order. You can still enjoy it, but it isn't made to please fans. It's made to make money off of them. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive, but the way Grand Order goes about it, in this case it absolutely is.
It is poorly executed though. Compared to industry standards for mobage games, Grand Order is near the bottom - it has one of the slowest release schedules, many times being 3 or 4 times slower than what other, better mobages manage, the gacha is arguably the worst due to its horrid rates and the fact that they have lied about them which arguably is very close to fraud, the servers are terrible and so on. This is all evidence of poor execution.
The sevrers have barely improved at all given the extreme amount of maintenance done on them. I imagine that if we see the improvements made between maintenance spells, we would see very, very little if anything, as shown recently by how poor they managed the traffic when the new gacha went up and the whole game ran very poorly. After almost a year of service, these basic issues still not being fixed is terrible.
Are you saying the story is the only thing in the entire game made with the fans in mind? I'd argue the story is actually the opposite - it's there to tell fans that it is a legit title and try and get them to spend money on the game, not the other way around.
I think we've clarified that I can't read Japanese. I question the purpose of this then, given you surely are aware that CCC has received no localisation to date.
You're going to need a source on that. Empty statement.
Is this where your argument is at now? "You didn't read a certain type moon book, which was the only example of Type Moon rewarding its fans, so clearly your entire point is wrong". I think the fact that you have to mention specific, relatively niche examples that are, at best, a stretch when it comes to "rewarding fans", proves my point for me. They simply don't respect their fanbase well enough.
Which is a subjective measure, if we're being honest. I have read the novel of /strange fake (the first one), and some of the manga that was translated. it has potential, maybe, but jury is out.
Except that means very little doesn't it? They haven't really done anything about the problems have they. The game, technically-wise, remains one of the worst in the industry, the same problems are consistently raised by fans such as the gacha and server issues yet we see very little improvement (server) and absolutely nothing (gacha). I question why they even bothered to run the questionnaire event given that they haven't even let us see the feedback nor have they really made any efforts to act on it. This is all poor Dab1za9. A throwaway apology, while certainly a nice pleasantry, is just that unfortunately. Until they start reflecting this when it comes to improving the game, I have a hard time seeing is anything other than a half-hearted attempt to appear to care at all about the quality fans are receiving.
Again, not good enough. We've been waiting far too long at this point. |
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Dab1za9
Posts: 68 |
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See you should actually be familiar with TM latest stuff to take about Whether they please their fans or not instead "Hur dur TM dont do anything good nowadays" This argument is going nowhere and i will save myself with arguing with someone who didn't read most TM Stuff that came in the last 5 years and seem to think he can judge them.
Also want a source on why TM latest stuff is better ? How about you learn Japanese ? |
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Renasviel
Posts: 143 |
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Unless learning Japanese would somehow insert a link or an article into my consciousness showing the statistics or otherwise facts that prove your point, I somehow doubt my learning Japanese would provide me the source I want. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16935 |
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Alright folks time to get back on topic. We're not having this thread spiral down the toilet and devolve into a flame war about/against the fans in the Fate universe in any fashion. Period. Given the about of vitriol Fate threads garner this is the only warning going to be given. So drop that line of discussion and stay on topic. Any posts from here on that comment on the fan base and go OT are being removed in their entirety on the spot.
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AksaraKishou
Posts: 1410 Location: End of the World |
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Just wanted to say that I got iskandar with one ticket
PS:just a quick question: when has fgo lied about the rates? That was granblue... |
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