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Ashabel wrote:

TexZero wrote:

Hold on.

Why would you think of this as something other than what we got ?
Even the manga isn't any more "revolutionary" in its portrayal of events. The basic narrative structures between the two hardly change and the tone is fairly consistent as well which has me questioning if you were really here for something different or just to bash the show as a whole.

This question is virtually the same for the reviewer, it strikes me as odd that they constantly draw deeper meaning from something that quite clearly isn't and hasn't been trying to be deep or thoughtful to begin with.

It has been brought up again and again - the manga is not the source material, the light novels are. The light novels are very tonally different from the manga, their writing style is more or less traditional fantasy in the vein of Lord of the Rings and they spend vastly more time on world-building and character introspective. They may not be revolutionary, but they're also not a borderline incoherent edgelord gorefest that the anmie ended up being.

This may have something to do with the fact that the manga was extremely rushed into production - it was greenlit before the novels even hit the shelves.

Actually, I think it seems fairly clear that the manga *is* the source material for this anime. It does happen, sometimes, where a work uses a second-tier source, an adaptation of an adaptation. Compare the differences from the manga and from the light novels. The one with fewer differences is likely to be the primary source they're working from.

BodaciousSpacePirate wrote:

According to the infamous "Appendix N" from the 1979 Advanced Dungeons and Dragons handbook,

.....And you know the author did not play AD&D? or what variant of D&D he played?

Really seems the author played at least AD&D 2nd edition or the 3rd edition..when most folks just went back to calling it D&D(as TSR has dropped Advanced from the title).
Just my guess,after playing D&D & AD&D for a bit...even did the Raven's Bluff thing(LRPG),

Question... "Appendix N" appears in the '79 printing of the player's handbook?.I'm looking at my AD&D '78(1st edition),my much abused '88(14th printing).Also my AD&D 2nd '89(1st edition) and my AD&D '95(TSR had dropped 2nd edition from the title with the '95 edition).

Or should I be looking in my Dungeon Master's Manuals?

Nordhmmer wrote:

.....And you know the author did not play AD&D? or what variant of D&D he played?

Nope, but the person I was responding to (whose post seems to have since been deleted) had a very strong opinion on the topic.

Nordhmmer wrote:

Question... "Appendix N" appears in the '79 printing of the player's handbook?.I'm looking at my AD&D '78(1st edition),my much abused '88(14th printing).Also my AD&D 2nd '89(1st edition) and my AD&D '95(TSR had dropped 2nd edition from the title with the '95 edition).

Or should I be looking in my Dungeon Master's Manuals?

DM Manual from 1979, page 224, or you can check out a digital version here:
http://www.digital-eel.com/blog/ADnD_reading_list.htm

Kendra Kirai wrote:

Actually, I think it seems fairly clear that the manga *is* the source material for this anime. It does happen, sometimes, where a work uses a second-tier source, an adaptation of an adaptation. Compare the differences from the manga and from the light novels. The one with fewer differences is likely to be the primary source they're working from.

That would seem to be the case at first glance, but the anime does actually feature content that the novels have and the manga doesn't. For example it randomly takes the prologue from the first volume and shovels it into the beginning of the second episode, but then stops it halfway so the actual point of said prologue is never reached.

Not that it's the only time when it does that - the second episode alone is some sort of macabre chimera of the novel's prologue, second and third chapters that draws dialogue from all three but then trims all of it so it often either misses the original dialogue's point, or the point is altered entirely. But my point is that it does sometimes draw material missing from the manga but present in the novels.

NPC wrote:

Again, process, money and authority involved are completely meaningless to me. No amount of diplomas, copies of pay checks and glowing recommendations from Zac will ever convince me that Christopher Farris is a good reviewer. All I need to do is read his work myself and decide if it presents any interest for me. It doesn't.

And that's fine. There are some (I suspect fairly prominent) reviewers on Youtube/for other sites that I won't ever waste my time watching/reading a review from again for much the same reason.

Quote:

I see. It seemed like the most natural explanation. I thought that he was forced to do it, but he just does it for money. I don't know if it's better and if there is even a difference now. Converting ANN reputation into cash may make sense in the short term. Thank you for clearing it up.

You seem to still be under a misconception here. We don't get paid enough to do a whole seasonal run of episode reviews just for money. There has to be at least some other vested interest.

BodaciousSpacePirate wrote:

mangamuscle wrote:

You are confused, as this timeline shows:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editions_of_Dungeons_%26_Dragons

for many years there were TWO editions of the game, ad&d had the good-evil axis while the other hadn't, it was never removed from the game as you state.

According to both the Wikipedia page for D&D Alignment (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignment_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)#History)
and my memory, the edition of non-AD&D referred to on the timeline as the "blue box" (1977, right column) had a good-evil axis, while the "magenta box" (1981, right column) and the "red box" (1983, right column) did not.

Overall, character creation in the 1977 release was more directly in line with the AD&D line's system than the 1981 or 1983 releases, chiefly because it only supported levels 1-3, after which point players were expected to buy AD&D products if they wanted to continue playing. (The 1981 and 1983 releases had their own corresponding level 4+ supplements, which meant that they were free to do their own thing with stuff like alignment during character creation.)

I attribute the degree of differences between the blue, magenta, and red boxes to the fact that they all had different head writers (Gygax was busy working on AD&D during that time).

Regardless, I agree with you that I am inclined to just take "goblins are all evil and must all die" at face value and move on to the next season of anime without any further discussion of what kind of evil they are.

Replying to this and the previous responses...

I started playing D&D in 1980, doing campaigns in study hall instead of working on my algebra like I should have been. Played a lot of 2nd Ed. in the '90s, so what's what gets confused in my brains. I quit playing when they changed the system, eliminated THAC0, switched to a LARP of White Wolf's Vampire: The Masquerade setting, The World Of Darkness. That's a D10 system, we adapted it to using rock-paper-scissors to decide contested actions. What the heck, it worked.

I am pretty aware that the constant rules changes in D&D have led to players having issues. We always played with the understanding that the DM, not the rulebook, is the final arbiter of all disputes, and that players should be encouraged to roleplay, not "ruleplay". Rules lawyers need not apply.

One thing...I occasionally enjoyed playing a Chaotic Good party member just because it made an adventure more interesting. Sort of the I'm-only-with-you-losers-for-what-I-can-get-out-of-it-but-as-soon-as-we-get-what-we-came-for-and-divide-the-loot-I-never-want-to-see-your-ugly-mugs-again type of character who would undermine the leadership, second guess every decision, even if it was obviously the correct one, generally be a pain in the back side. The other players would know what I was doing, but generally they couldn't just kill my character and force me to roll up another one because they needed the skills he was bringing to the setting and the DM wanted me playing him that way. And when the session was over for the evening we would all have a good laugh.

Anyway, my whole purpose for the posting was to call out the reviewer for using a term he has no knowledge of. It's been annoying for the whole season to read his reviews, which seem to be putting everything in as negative of a light as possible.

Ashabel wrote:

TexZero wrote:

Hold on.

Why would you think of this as something other than what we got ?
Even the manga isn't any more "revolutionary" in its portrayal of events. The basic narrative structures between the two hardly change and the tone is fairly consistent as well which has me questioning if you were really here for something different or just to bash the show as a whole.

This question is virtually the same for the reviewer, it strikes me as odd that they constantly draw deeper meaning from something that quite clearly isn't and hasn't been trying to be deep or thoughtful to begin with.

It has been brought up again and again - the manga is not the source material, the light novels are. The light novels are very tonally different from the manga, their writing style is more or less traditional fantasy in the vein of Lord of the Rings and they spend vastly more time on world-building and character introspective. They may not be revolutionary, but they're also not a borderline incoherent edgelord gorefest that the anmie ended up being.

This may have something to do with the fact that the manga was extremely rushed into production - it was greenlit before the novels even hit the shelves.

As i have not read the LN i cannot coment on the voracity of your claims however, i do suspect you're geninuenly making an attempt at polishing a pile of something and trying to sell me it.

I find it extremely unlikely that the novel manga and anime have that much of a difference in tone and presentation. I'm aware that certain events have been shuffled as far as order and some backstories omitted but that really does not change that this show isn't trying to convey some deep social narrative about the whims of murder sanctioned or otherwise. At the end of the day this show and the manga are very blunt in reguards to what they are about Guy with PTSD taking out his trauma on Goblins because plot reasons.

Going to add one more thing to the D&D/AD&D question....

I've no longer have my D&D manuals,but am looking at my AD&D Monster Manual (1st ed) and the AD&D 2nd's Monstrous Compendium-
The standard alignment for npc goblins was not chaotic evil,it was lawful evil.

Edit: Happy New Year folks.

TexZero wrote:

As i have not read the LN i cannot coment on the voracity of your claims however, i do suspect you're geninuenly making an attempt at polishing a pile of something and trying to sell me it.

I find it extremely unlikely that the novel manga and anime have that much of a difference in tone and presentation. I'm aware that certain events have been shuffled as far as order and some backstories omitted but that really does not change that this show isn't trying to convey some deep social narrative about the whims of murder sanctioned or otherwise. At the end of the day this show and the manga are very blunt in reguards to what they are about Guy with PTSD taking out his trauma on Goblins because plot reasons.

Look, you can buy the novel from Bookwalker for six bloody dollars and then read it off your cellphone while you walk your dog or something - that's actually literally what I did. Go ahead and do that if you don't believe me.

When the manga version of your novel literally cuts out a 26-page prologue that describes a miitary campaign of forces of light against an army of darkness and replaces them with six pages of an extremely graphic goblin rape orgy, as is quite literally the case with Goblin Slayer: Year One, you know you have a problem.

Also belated edit, but if you seriously think that the anime never completely alters the tone and presentation of the original work, then I've got a bridge to sell you. Go watch Blade of the Immortal, Gungrave, GUNNM or Ghost in the Shell, then compare them to the source material. Tell the forums how you feel afterwards.

I think my favorites are Fruits Basket, where the mangaka was so pissed off by the tonal changes to her work that she issued a decree that nobody from the anime's staff is allowed to work on an adaptation of her work ever again, as well and Bokurano where the director of the anime hated the original work's tone so much that he made a public blog post in which he announced his intention to deviate from it.

TexZero wrote:

As i have not read the LN i cannot coment on the voracity of your claims however, i do suspect you're geninuenly making an attempt at polishing a pile of something and trying to sell me it.

I find it extremely unlikely that the novel manga and anime have that much of a difference in tone and presentation. I'm aware that certain events have been shuffled as far as order and some backstories omitted but that really does not change that this show isn't trying to convey some deep social narrative about the whims of murder sanctioned or otherwise. At the end of the day this show and the manga are very blunt in reguards to what they are about Guy with PTSD taking out his trauma on Goblins because plot reasons.

Yes,more often than not,there are tonal change between adaptations.

I've not read Goblin Slayer.So I'll use Overlord as a good example of how each adaptation presents a different story.Overlord's LN portrays a much darker world view than the anime' synopsis shows viewers.The web novel's Ainz takes a different route than the LN's Ainz and the manga is doing it's own thing.

Try reading the source material,you're apt to be surprised at what you've been missing(or not).

Ashabel wrote:

Also belated edit, but if you seriously think that the anime never completely alters the tone and presentation of the original work, then I've got a bridge to sell you. Go watch Blade of the Immortal, Gungrave, GUNNM or Ghost in the Shell, then compare them to the source material. Tell the forums how you feel afterwards.

Okay, I'm curious here: how would you describe the tone of the anime version of Battle Angel (aka GUNNM) as being markedly different from the manga version? I own and am familiar with both and I'm not seeing a drastic difference.

Quote:

I think my favorites are Fruits Basket, where the mangaka was so pissed off by the tonal changes to her work that she issued a decree that nobody from the anime's staff is allowed to work on an adaptation of her work ever again. . .

Her loss. I've watched the whole anime and read the first few volumes of the manga, and I so vastly prefer the former that I've rewatched it multiple times, while I've never had any interest in rereading the manga.

Overall i felt the series, anime adaptation, accomplished what it set out to do. It gave us a fantasy world with consequences. It presented us with characters that "could of been just about anyone". What the series set out to do with its story, i think it did well. While not as verbose as a manga or LN, anyone watching is gonna get the gist of how both the world and characters operate. An enjoyable show, despite it's early "precedence" setting of the first episode, which had but one goal for viewers, instill an emotional reaction/response, which it succeeded by and large.

Was glad to see some of the internal dialog, from the goblin lord, letting us know what he was thinking, and what he had done (when he got captured).. Was a nice addition.

For the final episode here, I didn't see anyone mention the one bit of info that seemed, rather important to me. The "Demon Lord Slayers" group, as it were, did anyone else catch that the one character seemed to have no idea "how bad " goblins could be? Something the series seems to throw here and there, and it makes me wonder, if at least for this adaptation, if the knowledge of how bad they are, is often given less credence then it should. Which would make sense for why goblin Slayer is treated somewhat poorly in earlier episodes. Maybe such characters got into groups that they were already high enough for bigger prey then goblins, or they just didn't happen to run into any of them during their earlier days. The demon slayer girl seems to support this line of thought, as does the actions of the High Priestess in the earlier arc.

Lets face it, for the end of the season, that wasn't a raiding party that attacked the farm, that was an army, with archers, infantry and cavalry. They may be goblins, as the series likes to show, but that force was sufficient to take a full guild worth of adventures. Not exactly small potatoes. So for this adaptation (no source material), I'm curious just how common the knowledge is, because seasoned adventures know, doesn't mean its common after all, especially if even some of them obviously don't. Just an observation, as to its inclusion for the final episode.

At any rate, i found the show a bit thought provoking and highly enjoyable, even with some of its mundane premise. May just be coming from the gamer side of me, but it was enjoyable all the same.

Nordhmmer wrote:

TexZero wrote:

As i have not read the LN i cannot coment on the voracity of your claims however, i do suspect you're geninuenly making an attempt at polishing a pile of something and trying to sell me it.

I find it extremely unlikely that the novel manga and anime have that much of a difference in tone and presentation. I'm aware that certain events have been shuffled as far as order and some backstories omitted but that really does not change that this show isn't trying to convey some deep social narrative about the whims of murder sanctioned or otherwise. At the end of the day this show and the manga are very blunt in reguards to what they are about Guy with PTSD taking out his trauma on Goblins because plot reasons.

Yes,more often than not,there are tonal change between adaptations.

I've not read Goblin Slayer.So I'll use Overlord as a good example of how each adaptation presents a different story.Overlord's LN portrays a much darker world view than the anime' synopsis shows viewers.The web novel's Ainz takes a different route than the LN's Ainz and the manga is doing it's own thing.

Try reading the source material,you're apt to be surprised at what you've been missing(or not).

Again i'm not saying there isn't a chance of a tone shift. I'm saying it's not as drastic as the user is suggesting it is. What they seem to want to portray is a a case of whiplash like going from what we have to something light and fluffy like Wotakoi.

I find it extremely, extremely hard to buy said picture.

Just because content and backstory gets cut for time because lets be real here that happens a lot doesn't mean that the entire tone shifted.

Steel Angel wrote:

For the final episode here, I didn't see anyone mention the one bit of info that seemed, rather important to me. The "Demon Lord Slayers" group, as it were, did anyone else catch that the one character seemed to have no idea "how bad " goblins could be?

I keep seeing this comment here and there in the lines that "it does not make sense for a series that is trying a no nonsense approach to story telling". IMO it does make sense and here is a real world example. In 2017 there were 37,133 deaths caused by motor vehicles (automobiles) in the USA. Meanwhile the number of deaths in commercial jet flights in that year? Zero. But you seldom hear in the news about the risks of using your car but when someone crashes (or nearly crashes *cough*harrison ford*cough*) even an small plane it will be all over the news.

We have this tendency to rank danger on the potential damage a threat poses (not on the average damage of said incidents); so an asteroid crashing on earth is a big risk in the minds on many, no matter that the chances of such event happening in our lifetime is basically zero. Now, the opioid crisis, many people have yet to hear about that.

Goblins seem to be a rural danger in this world, this goblin lord idea of attacking a city would have been IMO a 9/11 moment, because the news (even if unsuccessful) would have spread like fire and great effort would be taken from then on to annihilate all goblins. As it stands now, the nobles and merchants (which are the ones paying the adventurers bounties most of the time) see little threat to their well being from goblins, so there is little pay in those requests to kill them.

Key wrote:

Okay, I'm curious here: how would you describe the tone of the anime version of Battle Angel (aka GUNNM) as being markedly different from the manga version? I own and am familiar with both and I'm not seeing a drastic difference.

I'm honestly not sure how you can miss the differences between the two when the wikipedia page for the OVA has a list of differences from the original manga that is almost as long as the rest of the article. The anime is very somber, it almost entirely focuses on the relationship between Gally and Hugo (who is basically a non-character in the manga and hasn't been mentioned once since he died back in volume 2) and approaches cybernetics largely from the perspective of existential horror. The manga is a martial arts drama that focuses largely on action and has been treating cybernetics as a natural next step in human evolution.

Key wrote:

Her loss. I've watched the whole anime and read the first few volumes of the manga, and I so vastly prefer the former that I've rewatched it multiple times, while I've never had any interest in rereading the manga.

No, it isn't "her loss" in any way. She wrote a specific work with a specific message and while it was within the director's freedom to change the story's genre and completely rewrite one of the main characters to a degree where he resembles the original in name only, she isn't obligated to enjoy that. She wanted her work to carry a specific message. It's entirely within her rights to not want to work with people who don't want to respect that message.

TexZero wrote:

Just because content and backstory gets cut for time because lets be real here that happens a lot doesn't mean that the entire tone shifted.

Except that it happens all the time.

Gungrave anime is a slow and thoughtful mafia tale about a relationship between two men, adapted from a post-apocalyptic revenge fantasy about gore-splattered adventures of a gunslinger zombie, a blind samurai and a ghost haunting an electrical guitar.

Ghost in the Shell is a moody philosophical cyberpunk adapted from an action series about a female cyborg who works as a secret agent by day and moonlights as a prostitute by night.

Anime adaptations deviate from their source material both in plot and tonally all the time. If anything, what's strange here is you acting like Goblin Slayer is some sort of unique and unthinkable case of that happening.

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