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Vinland Saga (TV) (all seasons).


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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 9:26 pm Reply with quote
#21

Last week had a smorgasbord of pain befitting its episode title, this week we get to see courage in many forms. It's not just Thorfinn showing courage; the last person one would expect to show courage (Olmar) actually does this week.

Canute's hallucination at the start brought up two interesting points. He wasn't directly responsible for his father's death (that was Ashkeladd), but he blames himself for not ordering Ashkeladd's death when he had the chance. Regardless of what we the audience might think regarding his older brother's death, Canute blaming himself for Sven Forkbeard might be one reason why he has these hallucinations, even if he's not self-aware of this inconsistency.

The other point was Sven saying he's using the road of corpses to build paradise, which is ironically not so different from what Thorfinn is trying to achieve in Vinland away from war-torn Europe. The only difference is Canute has accepted that War is a short-term diplomatic status that cannot be avoided in order to achieve a lasting peace, or at least that's what he thinks subconsciously.

The big surprise is Olmar actually being put on the spot regarding the offer of surrender and taking it up. We already know how much liability he bears for the current situation, which he was painfully reminded of when he returned to the ad-hoc field hospital and saw the tenant who previously tried to pimp his daughter to him with his hands cut off.

For him to accept the offer of surrender and then admit his fault in the entire mess so that he can finish what he started is a very different form of courage displayed by Thorfinn going to the camp alone, getting mocked for his proposal and then taking hits without retaliating. Even his grandfather acknowledged this, even musing how it was worth losing the entire farmstead for Olmar to finally acknowledge his shortcomings.

I'm not surprised Canute and Floki remember Thorfinn. The former because of the brief time he spent with Thorfinn and Ashkeladd, while the latter owes his position at the head of the Jomsvikings because of his successful killing of Thors through Ashkeladd. Four years is a long time, so neither of them will recognise him. But the trailer proves Thorfinn somehow survived the gauntlet and got his wish.

Just as well Ulf witnessed the gamble and can intervene once the 100 hits are counted, which in the society Thorfinn lives in is more than enough to earn respect regardless of his social position. Einar has come at the right time; since even Thorfinn will have trouble walking after taking so much punishment and the shoulder he needs to lean on to reach the king is now in place.

Even if the pair do meet, what leverage does Thorfinn have to convince Canute to back off from his intended plan?
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ACxS



Joined: 03 Aug 2019
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 9:16 am Reply with quote
21:

I think the most interesting part of the episode is why Canute refuses to see Thorfinn. It could be an obvious as Canute thinking how futile talking to Thorfinn would be, since he believes that it wouldn't change anything about his plans (and belief that peace can't come without violence).

Or, it could be something else: perhaps Canute recognizes Thorfinn as the epitome of his own self-conscience that he tries to avoid, especially when he feels that King Sweyn is the devil he can't escape and after everything that has happened on the farm. Basically, avoiding the confrontation that maybe he knows he shouldn't be running from. A verbal face-off between someone who embraces non-violence and another who accepts violence would be amazing to watch.
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 10:21 am Reply with quote
@ AC x S: that's an interesting thought but what mediates against it as a possible explanation for Canute declining to see Thorfinn is that he would have no way of knowing about Thorfinn's change of heart from vengeful warrior to pacifist. So I think your first guess is probably closer to the mark: Canute just doesn't see the utility of talking with a former bodyguard.

(Irony: you can't spell pacifist without making a fist!)
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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:11 pm Reply with quote
#22

Piece of advice from the author: If you're going to be pummelled with no chance of retaliation, you need to be trained enough to deflect most of the force directed at you away from the body's critical weaknesses. It won't stop you from losing teeth or getting bruises, but it'll prevent broken bones at least and possibly concussion. I'm not putting this theory to the test, but for this series at least that is how the physical disparity between Thorfinn and Drott is overcome and how the former somehow manages to walk on his own steam to Canute.

The contrast between the party atmosphere when the bet began and the near silence in which the exhausted Drott completed the last of the hundred blows is one of the most striking things of this episode. Thorfinn's outburst when he got up from the blow absolutely astounded the revellers, as did the look in his face when he dismissed Drott's posturing and told him to get on with it.

The other comment from Thorfinn about not having any enemies is a callback to what his father Thors said when he was alive, Thorfinn has certainly proved him right in one respect in that he can be rated as a warrior without throwing a punch in retaliation. Thorfinn's other quip about the two contesting parties settling it peacefully over a Viking board game instead of with lives and blood is amusing enough to win over even the sceptical Ulf, who honours the bet and allows the audience despite Snake and Olmar already in attendance to offer surrender.

Canute's apocryphal account about him rolling back the tides is so well known even the Vinland Saga author can't resist the opportunity to incorporate it in some way into his series. It is indeed well adapted, and the author has chosen the more modern interpretation of Canute recognising the limits of his temporal power. I do not remember when exactly Canute was scarred, but it appears to be in the immediate aftermath of Sveyn's assassination. Instead of execution, Canute commuted Thorfinn's punishment to slavery hence his exile to Ketil's holdings.

Thorfinn himself is impressed Canute is actually thinking about using the Viking raiders as a tool to acquire enough power as a prerequisite before he can even think about creating a paradise, which he frames as an act of rebellion against God because it is against the natural order of things. The tapestry shown when Canute elaborates on this is either the famous Bayeux tapestry featuring the Battle of Hastings and other events in the later Norman Conquest, or it could be Scandinavian in celebration of Canute's achievements. I need to rewatch to have a closer look, but I don't think it will be conclusive as there isn't enough detail to draw a firm conclusion.

There's still the conflict between Canute and Thorfinn to resolve, as the latter has no leverage to convince the former to abandon his plan to seize the farmsteads. Einar's outbursts haven't changed his mind, so the only thing I can see that will change the situation is Olmar and Snake intervening with the formal offer for surrender. Thorfinn has made the valid point that further bloodshed is actually detrimental to Canute's plans, since lack of manpower would mean some plots being abandoned meaning a reduction in the wealth generated by Ketil's holdings after requisition. Canute isn't going to be swayed by this point alone, so I'm expecting a surprise if he is going to drop the requisition plan with anything other than Olmar's surrender and their family's exile.
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ACxS



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:26 pm Reply with quote
22:

Well, the negotiation went pretty much the way I expected: Canute didn't want to meet Thorfinn because it would be a futile one anyway. Perhaps the only surprise is how unsurprised Canute is with Thorfinn's turning over a new leaf, and simply concluded it with how four years "is enough time for people to change." This, even after acknowledging that he's responsible for Thorfinn's slavery.

He may be waxing lyrical about "saving" Vikings but basically, he's just saying that Vikings are born that way, thus they have been forsaken by God, and hence this whole conquest is basically his way of transgressing against Him. His speech boils down to how humans are savages in essence, and that there can't be peace without violence first.

I thought I saw Thorgil in the preview in the previous episode. Where is he now?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:35 am Reply with quote
I have a different interpretation of what Canute was saying. I don't think he was suggesting that the Vikings had been forsaken by God because of their inherent nature. I think what he was saying was that trying to create a utopia (i.e. a paradise on Earth) was an act of rebellion against God because only He is capable of creating a true paradise. A man attempting to do that is attempting to take on the function or powers of God. Canute's attitude is that he's going to attempt it anyway, but in order to do that, he has to unify the Vikings, first.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 5:36 pm Reply with quote
Season 2, Episode 23

A very powerful episode, imo. For me, the most moving stuff was Thorfinn and Einar at Arnheid's grave, vowing to make a place that would answer the question of those who have suffered greatly, "Why should I have to live?" What a noble goal, what a wonderful cause. When I watched the first season of this, filled with blood-soaked action, I had no idea this is where we were headed and man what a trip.

I'm profoundly glad there is an episode left, but the season could have ended here and felt "right"... a complete story has been told. But I can't wait to see Thorfinn reunited with this mother (and hopefully sister, too). It's taken 48 episodes and we still haven't even left for Vinland... the Saga part of the title is extremely apt. It's always painful saying good bye to a beloved show and I'm glad I can delay it one more week.
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Harleyquin



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 10:34 pm Reply with quote
#23

How realistically viewers will appraise the conclusion of negotiations between Canute and Thorfinn will depend on how much the personal relationship they shared as well as Thorfinn's statement of intent to Canute about his desire to create a kingdom for those who cannot live in Canute's paradise is enough to resonate with Canute's own political goals. Without the former, Canute wouldn't have been moved by the latter. The king himself even laughed at how absurd it was for Thorfinn to come over to plead his case, and then run away if he could not use words alone to convince the king. Yet the courage of his convictions as well as Canute's own admiration for such a reckless stance overcame even Sweyn's voice of temptation.

Earlier in the series, it was noted how Canute feared the threat of rebellion in his English demesne enough to maintain the large standing army, which was to be paid for by requisition. That fear never went away, so Canute actually took a considerable risk in choosing Thorfinn's method of conflict resolution in reducing the size of his army. Historically he won that gamble, as the series portrays it as a gesture of good faith which was reciprocated by the English Earls and acted as a catalyst in reforming their master-servant relationship. From the record, the rebellions Canute faced down later in his political career were in Scandinavia, specifically against rival monarchs. His tale with Thorfinn here might be fiction, but redeploying his garrisoned English forces for Scandinavia certainly proved pivotal in his later victories.

Pater survived! Getting away with just his arm on a splint means he got out of the battle more or less unscathed. Sverkel too stayed alive long enough to say farewell to Thorfinn and Einar, which was beyond my expectations as even Roald predicted he wasn't going to be around for long. If anything, he'll outlive his son who appears to have completely lost it despite recovering from the physical injury. The guests are trying their hand at farming, with Sverkel and Roald overseeing. They will still take up arms if required against bandits and thieves, but the threat of another royal requisition is permanently gone for as long as Canute reigns and rival Scandinavian monarchs stay off southern Denmark.

This episode alone could finish the season, but next week is where it comes full circle as Leif Ericson fulfils his decade-old pledge to return Thorfinn to his family. Amazingly his mother is still alive; last I remembered she was seriously ill with Thorfinn's older sister taking care of her. Much has happened since they last met, so it's going to be quite the homecoming for Thorfinn.

Now that he's found his purpose (go to Vinland and start a colony unmolested by European raiders), he's going to need to tie up loose ends before he can embark on this new journey. Obligation and decency prevented him and Einar from accepting the material gift from Olmar and the survivors, but in hindsight they should have accepted it as it's going to be so crucial for the planning to come. That's for the medium term, for now viewers can enjoy the final episode of this season and hope future adaptations will come sooner rather than later.
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ACxS



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 8:43 am Reply with quote
23:

Ngl, I did not expect the conversation between Canute and Thorfinn to go in that direction. Not at all. That kinda took a hard left there. And yet, it inevitably changed the outcome and averted a possible catastrophe.

Man, if Thorfinn did reunite with his family in the end, I would be so happy. His separation from them back in the first episode of the first season felt like a lifetime ago.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:25 pm Reply with quote
Season 2, Episode 24 (Finale)

Masterpiece. What other rating could I possibly give this? Out of 1108 anime TV series that I have watched to completion (so far), I rate exactly seven of them as Masterpieces and this is one. I've marvelled before about how the second season went in a different direction than the first and even without the "crutch" of bloodthirsty action that so characterized the first season, it remained an absolutely riveting viewing experience. One of the most powerful redemption stories (and it's not over) I've ever come across in any medium. There's tons of material left to adapt. We had to wait 3.5 years in between the first and second season and I really hope the third comes out more quickly (I cannot conceive of there not being more.)
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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2023 9:46 pm Reply with quote
#24

Last week's episode on its own would have been sufficient to close this arc off, but this week's episode is a bonus and it also lays the groundwork for the saga yet to be adapted.

Thorfinn actually forgot how old he was, so the narrator had to fill in the gaps on our behalf. Considering he ran away from Iceland over 16 years ago, a lot of the reactions he got when he introduced himself were within expectations.

His older sister hasn't changed in personality at all since he left, and I expected him to take a punch at the first reunion in 16 years. I guessed wrong: she kicked him first and then the punch came later. That punch in particular, I don't think Thorfinn had braced himself for it so that ended up knocking him out. As strong as Ylva is, Thorfinn took 100 blows from the giant in Canute's camp a few weeks ago and didn't flinch. Still, the impact leaving the family home requiring a few repairs says a lot about Thorfinn's older sister and the family bloodline from Thors as a whole.

If Ylva didn't believe Thorfinn was who he claimed to be at the beginning, by the end of the night's tale no one in the room would have doubted a word he said. Too long and detailed to be made up, and he is the only person still alive who saw Thors's end. Ari would back him up as well, one of the few people Thorfinn remembered immediately when they saw each other again.

I vaguely remember Thorfinn's mother Helga was gravely ill early on in season one, and that Ylva was running the household and tending to her when she could. Surprisingly enough she survived, which is huge for Thorfinn who probably wouldn't have forgiven himself if he didn't see his mother alive again. Not only that, she's given him his blessing to venture forth to Vinland, even if it means Thorfinn will never see his family again as his life's work will mean he'll never have the time nor opportunity to return to Iceland once more.

Einar is more or less relegated to the sidelines in this episode, but for Helga to acknowledge him as Thorfinn's blood brother would have meant a lot to him. Unlike Thorfinn, Einar no longer has an extant biological family and their dying wish that he live on for their sake has granted him this relief of having an adopted family of his own.

I don't know if this reunion is anime-original or adapted from source, but it's a useful bridge as Thorfinn has set out his stall for the rest of his life's work and Leif Ericson has agreed to support him. Ericson isn't so rich he can start a colony on his own, but his merchant contacts mean he must have some idea on how Thorfinn can obtain the seed money he needs to begin his venture. How that comes to pass will need to wait for future adaptations.

A long time passed between season one and season two, and it was definitely worth the wait. Very different tone from season one, but still gripping in more ways than one. Now to see if it does well enough in home video sales to hasten the adaptation and broadcast of season three, as the franchise has done enough as far as critical acclaim both in Japan and abroad is concerned.
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ACxS



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:53 am Reply with quote
Final:

Man, it's been a while since we last saw Ylva. What a trip. A bit surprised to see some lighthearted stuff going on, but I guess something like that helps to break the tension a bit. I welcome it.

8/10 for me.

The second season has been different from the first season. Vastly different. As vast as the transformation in Thorfinn's character in the first versus the second season. I will be honest: I wasn't sure where the second season was going because, like many others, I was expecting this season to be more of what the first season offered: warring, violence, strategizing, etc. We actually enjoyed all that, so naturally we want more of it, right?

So imagine what went through my mind when the second season came along. A long slow burn that makes you think that perhaps you should be expecting something else. Thorfinn gets his day of reckoning that perhaps the life of a Viking isn't the only path in life, and that the second season is about the pacifist that he eventually embraced. And of course, the biggest test came at Ketil's farm when Vikings came knocking on his door.

The greatest part of the show for me wasn't Thorfinn's mental purgatory, or Einar and Thorfinn standing up to their retainers. It was Arnheid. She was the greatest part of the show. Her story, which to be fair wasn't any different from any other character's story during that era, was particularly poignant based on how it was told. That was the peak of the show for me, where the show tries to convey that pillaging and slavery were deplorable acts (digression: in fact, after seeing Thorfinn's stance against slavery, it makes me very sadder than even more violence await in later centuries, as history tells you),

The story makes a gutsy turn in direction with the story, and it paid off. MAPPA took over Wit Studio and made it better with the production values and presentation. If there is another sequel to the saga, I'm all for it.
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