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EP. REVIEW: Is It Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon? III


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GhostD



Joined: 07 May 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:25 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
GhostD wrote:
Makes you think how ridiculous the Black Dragon has to be to have wiped Zeus and Hera out

Makes you also wonder about the hero in Ancient Times who was able to take its eye out, doesn't it?

DanMemo has implied that Zeus and Hera Familias might not have been at 100% strength against Black Dragon due to losses taken defeating Behemoth and Leviathan. (One event described the Level 7s who finished both off as only doing so at a cost, and another event referred to even high-level adventurers dying to Behemoth's poison despite Resistance.)


Makes me wish the Grand Day Tale event was canon. Id like to see that or Astrea Records or Argonaut as a movie

There are theories circulating online that the hero who took out the dragon's eye was spoiler[Ais' dad Albert]. Vol 15's last short story was a real teaser and it leads to the start of vol 16.
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Yuvelir



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:27 pm Reply with quote
I know the reason is level numbers. And that there must be somebody stronger somewhere.
It's just that when you see that play out it gets very ludicrous with a tiny bunch of guys easily overpowering an entire town's worth if people.
Even most RPGs aren't that absolute with levelz.
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HAL14



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:07 pm Reply with quote
Yuvelir wrote:
I know the reason is level numbers. And that there must be somebody stronger somewhere.
It's just that when you see that play out it gets very ludicrous with a tiny bunch of guys easily overpowering an entire town's worth if people.
Even most RPGs aren't that absolute with levelz.


To clarify the levels problem: levels actually barely give an idea of what an adventurer is capable of. It was probably left out of the anime but the LN stated that the bare requirement to level up is having at least one stat be rank D (ranks go in ascending order of I to A, and then S, SS and SSS). So two characters with the same level can have drastically different stats hence why high level characters are so OP

It's like how in some RPGs you don't have to change classes immediately you reach the requirements. So while some players will class change immediately other players will max out their current class first before changing, so naturally, the later player will be stronger than the former despite having the same class.
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Yuvelir



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:47 pm Reply with quote
HAL14 wrote:
To clarify the levels problem: levels actually barely give an idea of what an adventurer is capable of. It was probably left out of the anime but the LN stated that the bare requirement to level up is having at least one stat be rank D (ranks go in ascending order of I to A, and then S, SS and SSS). So two characters with the same level can have drastically different stats hence why high level characters are so OP

It's like how in some RPGs you don't have to change classes immediately you reach the requirements. So while some players will class change immediately other players will max out their current class first before changing, so naturally, the later player will be stronger than the former despite having the same class.

It would be nice if they showed it then, because so far levels have been absolute and someone with a lower level might put up a fight but is ultimately doomed to lose unless they stack a lot of additional elements including plot armor and protagonist superpowers.

But honestly I disliked this system since the very first time it was shown. Even if they got creative with the bits about the blessing and invisible tatoo, in the end it's an adventure fantasy copypasting a role playing game system which is in turn a necessary (for a game) abstraction that represents the skills of characters in adventure fantasies.
It's always immersion-breaking and lacks elegance. The positive note in this case however is that since levels are (so far) absolute, it means that a stronger character IS stronger and the weaker one won't turn the tables around just by shouting for a minute.
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Key
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:20 pm Reply with quote
One of the defining points of the DanMachi setting is that, when it comes to adventurers, quality matters more than quantity. A Level 6 could single-handedly defeat an army of a thousand Level 1s with Level 2 leaders. (See Gareth's scene in s2 ep 11.) In this episode, Mikoto and Gareth only held out as long as they did against Gareth because they had invisibility cloaks and Welf's powerful magic swords to help make up some of the difference, and even then they were on a track to losing to him until Tsubaki stepped in.

The bit about how two people at the same level can have significantly different strengths doesn't specifically come up until the volume of Sword Oratoria past what the anime adapted, though it is implied in the first main series; remember how startled Loki Familia's top people were to learn that Bell's stats were "all S"? That's practically unheard-of, as maxing out stats before leveling up (which is not even close to necessary) is not commonly done for practical reasons, but the effect can be cumulative. An adventurer at Level 3 who's gotten his stats high in previous levels will be stronger than one who leveled up at the bare minimum.

Yuvelir wrote:
But honestly I disliked this system since the very first time it was shown. Even if they got creative with the bits about the blessing and invisible tatoo, in the end it's an adventure fantasy copypasting a role playing game system which is in turn a necessary (for a game) abstraction that represents the skills of characters in adventure fantasies.
It's always immersion-breaking and lacks elegance.

Yeah, this bugged me a lot at first, and it still does, to an extent, since it's a writing crutch. However, I have long reasoned that the gods instituted this game-like system specifically to be reminiscent to an RPG; since they are often shown to have knowledge and predilections suggesting familiarity with a modern world, this wouldn't be out of line, and would at least make the system more plausible than in most settings using game-like mechanics. To my knowledge Omori has yet to explain it that way, however.

GhostD wrote:
There are theories circulating online that the hero who took out the dragon's eye was spoiler[Ais' dad Albert]. Vol 15's last short story was a real teaser and it leads to the start of vol 16.

Yeah, I accidentally ran across that rumor a while ago, and after just finishing reading volume 15, I'm absolutely convinced that's the direction Omori is going. What's been revealed about her background makes a lot more sense if that's true. The big catch to that theory is, of course, spoiler[the thousand-year time gap], but a cryptic comment made by a character in the Astraea Familia event in DanMemo leads me to believe that spoiler[a young Ais may have been in some kind of stasis in the Dungeon during most of that time].
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Nordhmmer



Joined: 11 Feb 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:27 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
One of the defining points of the DanMachi setting is that, when it comes to adventurers, quality matters more than quantity.

The bit about how two people at the same level can have significantly different strengths doesn't specifically come up until the volume of Sword Oratoria past what the anime adapted, though it is implied in the first main series; remember how startled Loki Familia's top people were to learn that Bell's stats were "all S"? That's practically unheard-of, as maxing out stats before leveling up (which is not even close to necessary) is not commonly done for practical reasons, but the effect can be cumulative.
.


Basic stats(abilities): strength, endurance, dexterity, agility, and magic.
Abilities are ranked by a letter,with I being the lowest rank and S being the highest(or used to be) and by a number ranging from 0 to 999( or used to be).
According to the Danmachi universe,it is normally impossible to go past S rank and past 999.

When a adventurer levels their basic abilities reset to 10,with the older abilities ranks retained as an invisible base.

Which brings us to Bell. Whom has seen his basic abilities soar past "S" rank,reaching "SS" and the new rank of "SSS' at every level he's reached.

Bellspoiler[,before episode 11 wraps up,]at level 3 •
•Strength: SS1001
•Endurance: SS1100
•Dexterity: S989
•Agility: SSS1291
•Magic: A877

And at level 4 Bell's abilities will reset to A class as a base.
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GhostD



Joined: 07 May 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:18 am Reply with quote
Nordhmmer wrote:
Key wrote:
One of the defining points of the DanMachi setting is that, when it comes to adventurers, quality matters more than quantity.

The bit about how two people at the same level can have significantly different strengths doesn't specifically come up until the volume of Sword Oratoria past what the anime adapted, though it is implied in the first main series; remember how startled Loki Familia's top people were to learn that Bell's stats were "all S"? That's practically unheard-of, as maxing out stats before leveling up (which is not even close to necessary) is not commonly done for practical reasons, but the effect can be cumulative.
.


Basic stats(abilities): strength, endurance, dexterity, agility, and magic.
Abilities are ranked by a letter,with I being the lowest rank and S being the highest(or used to be) and by a number ranging from 0 to 999( or used to be).
According to the Danmachi universe,it is normally impossible to go past S rank and past 999.

When a adventurer levels their basic abilities reset to 10,with the older abilities ranks retained as an invisible base.

Which brings us to Bell. Whom has seen his basic abilities soar past "S" rank,reaching "SS" and the new rank of "SSS' at every level he's reached.

Bellspoiler[,before episode 11 wraps up,]at level 3 •
•Strength: SS1001
•Endurance: SS1100
•Dexterity: S989
•Agility: SSS1291
•Magic: A877

And at level 4 Bell's abilities will reset to A class as a base.


No it resets back to 0. If you read vol 12 (which takes place immediately after the Xenos arc) it was shown twice that spoiler[Bell's stats all reset back to rank I0 after he leveled up again]. The new level's stats will stack or layer above the previous level's stats.

Quote:
Yeah, I accidentally ran across that rumor a while ago, and after just finishing reading volume 15, I'm absolutely convinced that's the direction Omori is going. What's been revealed about her background makes a lot more sense if that's true. The big catch to that theory is, of course, spoiler[the thousand-year time gap], but a cryptic comment made by a character in the Astraea Familia event in DanMemo leads me to believe that spoiler[a young Ais may have been in some kind of stasis in the Dungeon during most of that time].


Thats certainly the popular theory going around right now
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GhostD



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:11 pm Reply with quote
Ep 12

Well, the big fight was a tad underwhelming mainly cos they really downplayed the cheers of the people, the fight's intensity, and because it was shortened. I know I shouldn't be surprised at this point but I really wish they made this 13 eps instead of 12. Loved its animation though. Heres hoping for season 4. I realize after watching this and re-reading vol 11 that Hermes did something very similar to what spoiler[Erebus] did but on a much smaller scale.


Last edited by GhostD on Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GabrielMould



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:35 pm Reply with quote
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srlracing



Joined: 28 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:34 pm Reply with quote
GhostD wrote:
Ep 12

Well, the big fight was a tad underwhelming mainly cos they really downplayed the cheers of the people, the fight's intensity, and because it was shortened. I know I shouldn't be surprised at this point but I really wish they made this 13 eps instead of 12. Loved its animation though. Heres hoping for season 4. I realize after watching this and re-reading vol 11 that Hermes did something very similar to what spoiler[Erebus] did but on a much smaller scale.


13 episodes would have been a better fit but I think overall episode 12 gave me everything I wanted out of the fight with Asterius. The crowd support building behind Bell was a slight miss, but overall, they did a much better job with this material than I was expecting. Really brought the A game. I was cheering when the animation took that gigantic step up.
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GhostD



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:37 pm Reply with quote
srlracing wrote:
GhostD wrote:
Ep 12

Well, the big fight was a tad underwhelming mainly cos they really downplayed the cheers of the people, the fight's intensity, and because it was shortened. I know I shouldn't be surprised at this point but I really wish they made this 13 eps instead of 12. Loved its animation though. Heres hoping for season 4. I realize after watching this and re-reading vol 11 that Hermes did something very similar to what spoiler[Erebus] did but on a much smaller scale.


13 episodes would have been a better fit but I think overall episode 12 gave me everything I wanted out of the fight with Asterius. The crowd support building behind Bell was a slight miss, but overall, they did a much better job with this material than I was expecting. Really brought the A game. I was cheering when the animation took that gigantic step up.


Yeah this by far the best season for me. The improved animation throughout certainly helped
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Key
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:58 pm Reply with quote
srlracing wrote:
GhostD wrote:
Ep 12

Well, the big fight was a tad underwhelming mainly cos they really downplayed the cheers of the people, the fight's intensity, and because it was shortened. I know I shouldn't be surprised at this point but I really wish they made this 13 eps instead of 12. Loved its animation though. Heres hoping for season 4. I realize after watching this and re-reading vol 11 that Hermes did something very similar to what spoiler[Erebus] did but on a much smaller scale.


13 episodes would have been a better fit but I think overall episode 12 gave me everything I wanted out of the fight with Asterius. The crowd support building behind Bell was a slight miss, but overall, they did a much better job with this material than I was expecting. Really brought the A game. I was cheering when the animation took that gigantic step up.

Agreed. The Bell/Asterius fight in the novel is one of the most (if not the most) overwritten fight scene in the entire franchise - and for this franchise, that's saying something. This was a quite reasonable condensing of it, even if I would also have liked to see a little more crowd reaction.

EDIT: Oh, and we can't forget about spoiler[Hermes getting drop-kicked in the face by Hestia] at the end. Rarely has that been more well-deserved.

Overall, this is one of the season's strongest series. I'm going to be spending the weekend contemplating whether or not it makes the cut for my Top 5 for the year.
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GhostD



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:27 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
Agreed. The Bell/Asterius fight in the novel is one of the most (if not the most) overwritten fight scene in the entire franchise - and for this franchise, that's saying something. This was a quite reasonable condensing of it, even if I would also have liked to see a little more crowd reaction.


[EDIT: Note that the following spoilers are for novels well beyond what has been animated so far. - Key]

One of the most overwritten yes but IMO the fights against later opponents were much more overwritten


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Yuvelir



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:53 pm Reply with quote
How is Bell even alive and standing? Every hit that Asterius landed sounded like an explosion and either sent him flying or going through walls ala DBZ. And he landed quite a few of those.
The end of the arc being Bell being frustrated at losing a fight felt weird, considering the stakes have been far far FAR more important than the ego matter of being stronger or weaker. I'm glad Asterius made it alive though.

As for Hermes, things might have gone off-script but much as he whined and complained he still got the outcome he wished for: the xenos branded as regular dangerous monsters and Bell the hero protecting people from them (although I guess he didn't get enough credit for his liking).
I bet Hestia Familia will more or less forgive him in the mid term but I can't, he really tried to get several of their friends killed and doomed Wiene and her people to live as marked hunts in the dungeon, being further away from their goal than they started, as far as the general public is concerned. But I suppose moving two members of Loki Familia will account for something.
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pip25



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:31 pm Reply with quote
And so ends the third season. As someone who never read the original novels, I must admit I am quite conflicted. The theme of the season with the intelligent monsters was awesome, definitely way better than season 2, which got way too repetitive for my tastes. The whole idea of the xenos raises Danmachi above so many generic harem fantasy stories, it's just great to see.
The execution and ultimate outcome though...

There is no outcome. Not really. Looking at the world around Bell and co., things are pretty much the same as when the season started. Bell managed to regain his good standing with the citizens, most people still know nothing about the intelligent monsters, who will likely not be seen again for a good while, being happy to have escaped with their lives. Even season 2, as bad as the story was at places, managed to show more progress as the Hestia familia really came together and managed to secure a nice base of operations as well. But in this season? Sure, what happened here might have greater implications in the longer term, but for now, we are left with nothing but the status quo.

Also, maybe this wasn't unique to season 3, but it was nonetheless noticeable how little Bell, supposedly the protagonist of this tale, managed to accomplish. If it wasn't for Fels, Wiene would have died. (Well, she died and came back to life, but I don't want to digress too much by ranting about that particular piece of deus ex machina.) Dix ran off from their fight (and was killed in a shockingly random manner by Asterius). He was supposed to distract the Loki familia, but for all the running around he did, few people seemed to care, Finn actually made it part of the strategy to ignore him. Ais was ultimately convinced by Wiene, not him. Asterius moped the floor with him, even his argonaut ability failed (not sure why), and he only made it out alive because his opponent wanted to fight him again later. And most depressingly, the xenos are still viewed as monsters by almost everyone, Bell could only escape a no-win situation in the last episode thanks to Asterius' ever-so-convenient appearance.

Bell always doubted himself, agonized and cried a lot during the past 3 seasons, but it did not feel this jarring previously because he always managed to gather his strength in the end and get some stuff done. But for all the time he spent angsting about how he must go against the ones he respects and loves to stand for what he thinks is right - in this case, I'm not sure he got any stuff done at all.


Last edited by pip25 on Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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