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NEWS: GDH to Allow Downloaders to Set Price for 2 Gonzo Anime


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melonbread



Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 317
Location: UK (London)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:10 pm Reply with quote
babbo wrote:
I'm wondering, is GDH paying crunchyroll for this?


Apparently, animation studios pay Japanese TV stations to air their anime. So it could be the same in this case.
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Zerreth



Joined: 16 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:28 pm Reply with quote
You can't really compare this to Radiohead as they have a fanbase which is generally willing to pay for the album. Then look at Crunchyroll, where... well. ..You get a decent portion of the fanbase which came to that site because they could stream ripped anime for free. That isn't to say no one will pay for it, but I feel there's a bigger chance that it will be a much more severe hit than expected.
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Dargonxtc



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:25 pm Reply with quote
britannicamoore wrote:
it worked for radiohead.

melonbread wrote:
I did read them on one website, and the vast majority of people didn't pay for their album at all, the rest pay measily prices. I have not a clue whether or not that was true though.

No, you are right. Even though most payed nothing though, it is hard to not call it at least a mild success because they most likey won't lose money. But there are many factors people don't take into consideration. This is Radiohead we are talking about. They can take a loss, or at least the risk of one, and already have massive name recognition. It begs the question as to whether anime and the music industry are even comparable. I say not very much, especially when talking about rock icons. But admittedly, I also like to make those comparisons. So I think the question that should be asked when someone says, "it worked for radiohead" is, "Did Radiohead really need it to work in the first place?". I think the answer is a resounding no.

BenBrown wrote:
The interesting part was he asserts that the anime studios have already recouped their expenses through the Japanese network contracts. This is completely contrary to everything I've ever heard that the studio doesn't see a dime from networks.

Apparently not as much as you think. Just to show some reference to what people have been referring to here:
Tatsunori Konno, President and CEO of Bandai Visual USA, PiQ, Issue 1, "Is Anime Dead?" wrote:
The Japanese anime business model is funamentally different. Anime appears to the public via TV broadcasting at first, but the sponsors of these programs are often either the anime producers themselves, or the investors in the production committee's member companies. In short, the production companies are essentially paying the Japanese TV stations to broaadcast their product. They consider the whole 30-minute block as an advertisement for anime DVDs or other merchandise that'll help them cover production costs later on. These companies work on every level of anime-both the creation and the later home distribution.


In short, the Japanese rely on JPR2 DVD sales more than anything else in order not to lose their shirts for making anime, that many people seem to enjoy. And that fact alone blows a lot of holes in a great many of people's arguments.

I know before I read that, I always thought the most of the costs would have been covered by the broadcast. And that all the DVDs and stuff would be the sugar on top, and profits were made. But it turns out after the broadcast ends, they are basically at zero until DVD sales cover costs. No wonder Japan needs North America and the rest of the anime loving world on its side.

tygerchickchibi wrote:
People either may actually come up probably between .50-99 cents...

Sadly, I think that is about the right price range. Not me personally, but I think that is what the majority of fans are looking for when speaking about instantaneous DRM-free, official downloads.

That is why I think this is somewhat a bad idea. Even if they would have set the price extremely cheap, it would at least get some people in the habit of paying for something, when all they have known their whole life was how to freeload.

Good luck to them though, I hope I am wrong, and that this is a huge success.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:41 pm Reply with quote
Here is an interesting little flow chart made by AIC that shows a road map of anime from idea to overseas sales.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:59 pm Reply with quote
Dargonxtc wrote:
No, you are right. Even though most payed nothing though, it is hard to not call it at least a mild success because they most likely won't lose money. But there are many factors people don't take into consideration. This is Radiohead we are talking about. They can take a loss, or at least the risk of one, and already have massive name recognition. It begs the question as to whether anime and the music industry are even comparable. I say not very much, especially when talking about rock icons. But admittedly, I also like to make those comparisons. So I think the question that should be asked when someone says, "it worked for radiohead" is, "Did Radiohead really need it to work in the first place?". I think the answer is a resounding no.


Yeah, I think you've definitely got right to the heart of the issue here. Moreover though when it comes to something like music by Radiohead, regardless of piracy by the size of the fanbase alone there will be enough people willing to pay that they will still at least turn a profit off those people. At least enough of a profit to call the endeavor a success. If additional people who would have payed nothing now pay a tiny bit, its just icing on the cake.

Now with an anime I would hope that here that icing would really add up because there probably isn't enough people willing to pay either way to turn a profit. However, I think there is a far larger disconnect between the people already willing to pay and those not willing because of the higher price relative to music. This may allow them to profit off people who are willing to contribute something but unwilling to go as far as to buy DVDs. Although it is also possible that it will have not much of a net effect if these people simply pay a little all the time now instead of buying a DVD now and then. If the net money they're spending remains the same then they really haven't made a difference.

I'm still inclined to believe that ad support is the most plausible possibly with a paid subscription ad-free version as well. I'm a little disappointed that neither of these seem to be being considered as of yet. Still though, for now anything is better than nothing I guess.


Last edited by ikillchicken on Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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melonbread



Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 317
Location: UK (London)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:36 pm Reply with quote
Dargonxtc wrote:
britannicamoore wrote:
it worked for radiohead.

melonbread wrote:
I did read them on one website, and the vast majority of people didn't pay for their album at all, the rest pay measily prices. I have not a clue whether or not that was true though.

No, you are right


Thanks for finding that! I think it's probably time I sorted out a little quote/link bank for myself. Ever too often do I make references to things but can't remember where from.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:46 pm Reply with quote
I just don't like the idea of paying for digital distribution. I have never and probably never will buy any song from iTunes. What if my HDD fails 3 seconds later? Then I've just wasted money. Unless it's an actual physical thing (CD, DVD) then I am not going to pay for it. That being said, I do buy DVDs every now and then, but I will not pay for something that exists only on harddrives.
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britannicamoore



Joined: 05 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:13 pm Reply with quote
Dargonxtc-

I mean, considering they had left their company and were releasing it on their own, so they had a lot to loose. They did put money into making the album, so they needed it to work for them. If they hadn't of got any sales it probably would have been the end of Radiohead. Even if they do have money, they can only get so far. So yeah, I think they needed it to work for them. Badly at that.

I think something like this, offering your own price appeals to people.

Like- they aren't forcing me to pay $15 for this, so I feel good in offering what i feel I should. Also, with Radiohead, I bought into it and gave $8.

Sure some people didn't pay for it but many did. It's kind of like free stack of pancakes. I'm (this time speaking for me) more inclined to give a generous amount because they did offer it to me for free. They gave away 1.1 million pancakes and rasied $625,000+. (which exceeded their goals; and i know some are going to say theres a difference between a donation for charity and buying something, but truth be told at this point, I think anime comapines should be gald for what they get.) They'll earn some of their money back in the form of these subtitles, and the rest they'll get via dvd sales.

CR seems to have a lot of people willing to pay a small fee to see shows. My only problem with the whole issue is that the shows aren't mainstream titles. (to me anyway, I could be wrong) If only someone woul put one of the powerhouses up like Naruto or Bleach. Then they'd see some numbers.

Anyway, I feel the music industry and the anime indutry have similiar issues. Both face a problem of downloading, to which the music industry made a service that works. Both are apparently losing money. Thats the only reason i made the reference to Radiohead. I didn't hear about the NIN cd.


Last edited by britannicamoore on Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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stopher87



Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 75
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:15 pm Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
"Pay what you want" sounds like 100% free to me.


/agree

Sadly there is no pertinent format. You pay for a dvd and in a few years the quality degrades or the dvd gets smudged or even scratched. We should all back up on tape. It might be slow but it lasts a long time.
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:38 pm Reply with quote
Were they not originally planning to stream for free on CR?
Surely any voluntary payments they receive are a bonus so I don't see how people can say it will not work.
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tygerchickchibi



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 1320
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:23 pm Reply with quote
>.> ....

Haha, this must be a quick April fools joke.

Yeah, that's all it is...
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ConanSan



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1818
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:26 am Reply with quote
Dargonxtc wrote:
I know before I read that, I always thought the most of the costs would have been covered by the broadcast. And that all the DVDs and stuff would be the sugar on top, and profits were made. But it turns out after the broadcast ends, they are basically at zero until DVD sales cover costs. No wonder Japan needs North America and the rest of the anime loving world on its side.
Then why the hell does Bandi Visual more or less insists on attempting to sell it's stuff on a low content / high price basis? I don't think sitting there on your mountain and saying "We know what anime fan want" whilst expecting people to pay bugger off prices for stuff that doesn't warrent it is the best way to win friends and infulance people.
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Dargonxtc



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:39 pm Reply with quote
britannicamoore wrote:
Dargonxtc-

I mean, considering they had left their company and were releasing it on their own, so they had a lot to loose. They did put money into making the album, so they needed it to work for them. If they hadn't of got any sales it probably would have been the end of Radiohead. Even if they do have money, they can only get so far. So yeah, I think they needed it to work for them. Badly at that.
Underline added

Although niether of us would know what would have happened if it was a complete flop, I think this is a highly extreme opinion. Even before they wen't on this venture, several labels were clamoring to get them signed on. And my guess is, even if it had been a total failure, they still would be. And the reason is simple really, labels know that an album released by them will almost definitely make money. I seriously doubt that a complete failure would have left them high and dry to the point of calling it quits, nor do I think that none of the music companies wouldn't do everything in their power to stop that from happening. A band like Radiohead is a free agent by choice, and choice alone.

So to make a statement that it might have been "the end of Radiohead", and I don't mean this in a negative sense, is really nothing more than your inner fangirl speaking. And that is fine. Be it music or anime, we all don't like to see the things we love fail or end. But when talking about this kind of thing, it's a hundred times more likely the group would break up over "creative differences" than any sort of financial trouble.
britannicamoore wrote:
Anyway, I feel the music industry and the anime indutry have similiar issues.

Oh I agree, when talking exclusivly about the industry. What I was getting at was when speaking about rock icons and anime, the similarities that industries share, all of a sudden become huge differences due to the several orders of magnitude variance when talking about scale, fanbase and the production cost. When you start seeing small unknown up and start bands, making money off of Radioheads model, I think those differences will start being similarities again.
britannicamoore wrote:
and i know some are going to say theres a difference between a donation for charity and buying something, but truth be told at this point, I think anime comapines should be gald for what they get.

I really am not going to talk about this, because this is the internet and it would easily become uncivil. But I don't think I can quote part of your post without saying that I take great issue with this statement. I was at least semi-with you for just about everything else though.
Shiroi Hane wrote:
Were they not originally planning to stream for free on CR?
Surely any voluntary payments they receive are a bonus so I don't see how people can say it will not work.

Well it depends on where your goalposts are. If your goal is to simply make more money than zero, then I think this will be a huge success. If it is to make any sort of substantial income(not necessarily profit, but say a good chunk of production costs), then I think the question of whether it will work becomes a more difficult one to answer.

My own goalpost, if you will, would be to start getting people to get in the habit of paying for anime. Which is why I think this is a bad idea as it will most likely not convert anyone. And why I think setting a price, even a small one like 49¢, would target the group that's not paying now, but may prove to grow a paying customer base in the future. I am not saying that this would even come close to stopping people who will always get it for free, just that it will bring more people who are sitting on the fence of "should I or should I not pay?". As it is now, the option to leech is still there.
Conan-san wrote:
Then why the hell does Bandi Visual more or less insists on attempting to sell it's stuff on a low content / high price basis? I don't think sitting there on your mountain and saying "We know what anime fan want" whilst expecting people to pay bugger off prices for stuff that doesn't warrent it is the best way to win friends and infulance people.

It's clear that they are treating the US with the same model as in Japan. Although to be fair, in some cases it is a little cheaper than R2s. Personally I think BVUSA is making a huge mistake with their pricing scheme in the US. However, I will take his word on how the industry works in Japan over just about anyones.
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Skys



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 101
Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:44 pm Reply with quote
I see this as a truly great decision on their part. The people who want to get anime for free will, there is not much they can do about that, but by providing this "free download plus donation" model, they can gain profit from those who are seeking a quick legal means to downloading.

I do not think they made a bad move by putting these downloads on Crunchyroll, as some state. It is true that Crunchyroll is a huge site for viewing anime for free, but it must be considered that if Gonzo put these anime on their own site would they get as much traffic as compared to Crunchyroll? I do not believe they would. This means that by putting these downloads on a site with more people they have a greater chance of making money, not a bad choice at all.

I see this as a great advance for both anime companies and consumers. The companies can gain revenue from where they were once losing it, downloads, and the consumer can set a price which he/she sees as fair. I hope more companies follow suit and do something such as this.
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luhead



Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 151
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:16 am Reply with quote
I'm not clear on this. Are people going to be able to download from Crunchyroll and not just stream? If so, then why are downloads on BOST going to be $1.99 and CR downloads pay-what-you-want?
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