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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
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spoiler[Yukito is completely separate from Yue and had no Yue he existed up until Sakura woke the cards. IIRC Clow/Eriol actually states he thought Yukito would fall for Sakura.]
They toned it down for the anime - have you not read the manga? He gives her an engagement ring and promises to marry her when she is old enough. IIRC CLAMP were surprised the magazine editors let them get away with stuff like that.
Don't you remember how the members of her squad called her kitty (or something like that) and mollycoddled her? How timid she was even as a vampire at the start? Being stacked doesn't prevent her being "moe". [fixing quotes] Last edited by Shiroi Hane on Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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hissatsu01
 Posts: 963 Location: NYC |
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They don't need to lobby anyone to enforce bandwidth caps. Most ISPs have them in place but refuse to say just what the cap is. You find out only when you reach it and they cut you off. With ISPs unlimited never actually means unlimited. Any increase in HD video being streamed/downloaded is going to mean a lot more people finding out about those bandwidth caps. And all those same ISPs are chomping at the bit to bill by the byte, complaining about bandwidth hogs. Just what do you think will happen when a lot more of those "hogs" are around? Do you think they're going to lower prices for good PR?
If you can't see much of a difference between DVD and BD with something animated in HD or on 35mm film, then you don't want to see the difference (or you've seen very bad examples - which might be the case based on what you say later).
It's caught up just fine in Japan, where BD anime outsells DVD by 2-3 times when there's a simultaneous BD/DVD release, and most new shows get simultaneous release. If the comatose US anime industry can't manage the same, I'll live.
If you're taking Funimation's efforts on BD as indicative of what anime on BD is capable of, then that would explain your low opinion of anime on BD. Almost all of Funimation's BD releases so far have been upscales, poorly done upscales at that, and they make no effort to note which releases are upscales. Most of them actually have less detail than the DVD versions due to Funi's unnecessary messing around with the video. I won't buy any of their BD releases without reading reviews first.
And here is where you're completely wrong. Online video has been the future for years now, but that's the problem - it's always the future. Digital downloads/streaming still account for less than 2% of revenue (As far as I know nobody has managed to make a profit with streaming video as of yet). Meanwhile blu-ray market share has doubled or more every year and is currently at about 15% market share. In terms of market share blu-ray is growing faster than DVD did, and player prices have fallen much more quickly. You'd suggest they dump a format that makes money and shows strong growth over one that still struggles to generate a profit and in terms of quality is in every way inferior? Last edited by hissatsu01 on Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bayoab
Posts: 831 |
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hissatsu01
Posts: 963 Location: NYC |
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Either you're mistaken or misunderstood me. I meant shows that get simultaneous BD/DVD release - I should probably have stated it more clearly - I'll edit it to avoid further confusion. I can't think of any in the past year where the BD hasn't far outsold the DVD release. Almost the only people who buy anime in Japan are otaku and they've moved pretty heavily to BD. Why would they do otherwise when the price premium tends to be relatively small compared to the price of the discs. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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I'm sorry, but I think you're wrong here and you may be thinking of throttling, not capping. It is recognized many ISPs will throttle heavy users, but this is limited and rarely implemented. Comcast was definitely throttling, though seems to have backed off from public objection. As with any "unlimited" system, only resources in which seem excessive will be limited as it makes sense to do it. For ISPs who host websites as well, a DDoS attack on a specific website will most certainly cause limitations to be imposed. But that goes without saying. The Time Warner and AT&T capping trials were based on the "people should pay for what they use" but both have stopped the trials because of public outrage and was seen as a cash grab. It's not surprising to see increased bandwidth as more people begin to visit online sites to download streaming, but so far, no ISP is going to cap bandwidth when they've no proof it's taxing their systems.
And those ISPs (besides the two I mentioned) are? Sorry, but this is one area I pay very close attention to and as of today, no one seems to be getting cut off.
Just as I expect ISPs to do when the demand for broadband increased: upgrade their equipment. Despite all the whiners out there, the shortage of bandwidth is nothing more than a myth for most areas.
What's pricing have to do with anything? Most broadband costs consumers $49 for an average of 8Mb(its) download speed. Show me a system that's taxed at 8Mb and I'll show you a system that's in dire need of upgrading.
Movies, yes. Cartoons... not so much. Though anything on an HDTV will appear to look better. Those 720/1080 lines of resolution tend to do that. 
Indiana isn't in Japan. I've no idea what Japan gives distributors to work with, but it seems it's SD, not HD. Based on the podcast, it seems FUNimation has its work cut out for it if it wants to sell BD. There's only so much polishing that can be done with an upscale.
Just for the record, I'm not doing that at all.
Of course it is. That's because: A) Piracy is a fear. B) People think they can still monetize the internet. C) Distributors think the DVD is here to stay. All are irrational simply because the internet is the distribution system "of the future".
Yes, but the overall plastic disk market is shrinking. 15% of 0 is still 0. As more people discover on demand, renting, and going to the theaters, the need to own the movie is no longer a viable future to invest in.
Me? I'm not alone. The entire consumer market does not see value in owning movies anymore. I didn't do this by myself as I did have help. While your facts about BD are accurate, again, they're not replacing the overall losses of the plastic disk market so it makes sense more profits are being made as costs increased. More profits does not always equate to more sales. The average consumer doesn't care about 720, 1080, upscaling, or other attributes related to HD. They just want to watch a show, remain clueless, and hope when they hook their DVD/BD to their TV, it all works. Oh, and as an FYI, the American household still hasn't hit the 50% mark on digital television ownership. That's not expected until 2012 (well, this target varies depending on what report one reads, but after the switch to digital television, this number was more accurate based off FCC data). |
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bayoab
Posts: 831 |
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No, BD is just not selling that much better at all outside of K-on, Bakemonogatari and a couple others. Just for a random sample, let's select the latest disc for the first 10 titles with a simul release, alternating to add additional randomness. The first number is DVD and the second is Bluray:
Final result: 40% have higher BD numbers. Most of them by <200 discs. Also note that it took till the T's to get 20 Blu-ray simul series. |
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hissatsu01
Posts: 963 Location: NYC |
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No, I wasn't thinking of throttling, the FCC has been less than friendly to ISP's desire to throttle bittorrent thus far. I meant caps such as 100 GB or 150 GB a month, then you get cut off. Just about no ISP states an actual number, and they claim to use them very sparingly, but if you're regularly streaming or downloading it's not at all difficult to hit several hundred GB a month.
I agree entirely that it's a cash grab, but it has been painted by ISPs as being fair about charging for bandwidth used. The claim as that a small percentage of users take up most of the bandwidth, so it only fair that they pay more. In reality everybody would wind up paying more under such a system, but no ISP is going to come out and say it.
I said they're chomping at the bit to do it, not that they actually have yet. They're just very eager to do so. But in just about every past battle to raise rates, who has won? The ISPs or the customers? They certainly have more of a voice in congress.
This isn't about reality, this is about how the ISPs paint reality. They're mostly full of shit. I think they'd be quite fine with stifling growth as long as they made more profit.
There's haven't been any upscales released in the US that got an actual HD release in Japan so far, so it doesn't seem to be a matter of the Japanese companies withholding HD masters. My problem with Funimation and their upscales is that, aside from the low quality of their upscales, releasing so many upscales without even noting that they are upscales gives a poor impression of what anime on BD should look like. As for the US market, if it doesn't give me what I want, there's the Japanese market. And so far the US market is pretty much a flop unless I want blurry upscales.
Point B is why it doesn't work so far. Monetizing it has been the problem. If you can't make money from it in some way, it won't work. This is business, not charity, and nobody's making anime for the love of the artform.
There's a big difference between around over 8 billion (2009) and zero. No one is going to say "only" 8 billion and decide it's dead, then switch over to an alternative that less than 2% of that.
You continue overstating things. You want to scrap something that generates billions of dollars a year (DVD/BD) and switch over to something that barely breaks 100 million (if that). Sorry, it's the future once again. You can keep your low quality, not very profitable future.
Well, I guess I should apologize. I was wrong. Sorry about that. But those are still relatively good numbers and it has certainly taken off as a format in Japan far more quickly than in the US, where simultaneous releases for series still hasn't happened at all. |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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[quote="Shiroi Hane"]spoiler[Yukito is completely separate from Yue and had no Yue he existed up until Sakura woke the cards. IIRC Clow/Eriol actually states he thought Yukito would fall for Sakura.]
Eriol was wrong about a few things, as I recall. I don't think Clow had that much of a lock on knowing the future. I don't think he knew how angry Yue was There's a lot of stuff in there that's hinted, like that time Yukito's grandparents changed Sakura's clothes, etc. spoiler[I always assumed all those instances were times Yue took over for Yukito since Yukito didn't remember changing her clothes, etc. Therefore, I don't see Yue allowing it. He was dead set on not having a new master after Clow]
My time reading CCS is a tribute to how much I loved the story. I started with the 32 page comics & small-sized pocketbooks(They spelled it Yueh in the 32-page books). Those got dumped for the "authentic manga version" & the whole release took far longer than it should have. While I have the 2 boxes of the first set, I was up to the 2nd set by the time this was happening, so I'm not sure I went back to re-read the unflopped version or not & all the school stuff was very incidental to me considering the cards & Showran & Sakura were the main event. I never really cared about Rika & Terada any more than I really cared about any of the other school friends. But still, Rika instigated it. I remember the lunches she made for him. I remember Sakura encouraging her. But she was less important to the story as far as I was concerned than the vertical & horizontal guys in Comic Party. Utena's Shadow girls made more of an impression on me. And if you look, there is still room considering we are talking 4th grade(year?) turning to 5th grade for either party to find someone more appropriate to their ages. It's not like we saw them 5 yrs later. To call that an engagement ring is pushing it-more promise ring. I vaguely recall we were getting this all from Rika so who knows? I remember the couples seemed a lot more mature than the usual grade-school romances. I figured most of those couples probably did break up by the end of their school lives. It's still SOLIDLY in the fantasy fulfillment realm shojo is good at providing (ordinary schoolgirl being selected to marry the youngest Prime Minister ever? Of course! Ordinary girl pursued by supermodel boy-all the time) This was simply CLAMP doing the schoolgirl crush as a side story & it getting thru. It had less to do with the plot that Touya & Yukito, though more to do than Touya & what-her-name who was hanging out with Eriol. In a way, it was a nice portrayal-it really could be the teacher playing along so as not to hurt Rika's feelings figuring she would move on rather than crushing her little girl heart. Because we didn't see them in the future, I never really thought about it outside the story
That's any group of macho guys & 1 chick in the office. It's a huge stereotype, really. If she's in that line of work, she would be more likely to be able to hold her own & not cry over breaking a nail. It's a dif in the concept of "cute". Cute is adorable. Cute is not, for my money, hot, sexy, etc. Almost any woprd you may have to describe appearance, I have a set idea of perimiters. Handsome, good looking, cute, pretty--not interchangeable. Each reflect a different look. Jessica Rabbit is beautiful & sexy. Pretty is several notches down & cute is not beautiful or sexy outside of cute behavior which can be exhibited by anyone. I don't find Seras all that beautiful, but she is pretty & sexy (sexy just needs to be voluptuous. I really don't find too many models all that sexy. They know their sexy looks, but they themselves are not particualrly sexy if they lack curves or, for guys, a hot body, nice ass, etc.) Alucard isn't all that hot, but he is cool as hell. Overal, I don't find much of the artist's work good-looking characters, but he has a lot of cool ones. |
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TheTheory
 Posts: 1029 Location: Central PA |
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I'm just now listening to this, and I keep on hearing this I want to comment on, so I'm just going to keep kind of a... listening reaction journal (?) while I go through this podcast. Thus, I have not read through the thread to see if these things have been discussed to death... and normally that is a no-no on this forum, but hopefully in this case we can let it slide.
Re: Gintama vs Cromartie I looooved Cromartie High School. I think it might be one of the best anime comedies I've seen. The Japanese voice actors are hilarious and spot-on. While I've heard the name Gintama floating around, I had no idea what genre of show it is. With the comparison to Cromartie, I suddenly have this deep desire to marathon all 200 episodes of this M.F.er. This sounds near unlicensable, so I guess it is on Cruncyroll? Damn, I try to avoid that site like the plague... but this might just be the series to draw me back in. Re: Peter Jackson AAAAAaaamen guys. I knew there was something about those L.o.t.R. movies I couldn't stand, and you just nailed it. Thankfully I've managed to avoid everything else Peter Jackson (King Kong, etc), so no comment there. But from the sounds of it, I'd be equally repulsed by them. But yeah, as a producer he's decent--I loved District 9. Re: FUNI consider sub-only releases I have mentioned several times on this forum that I basically only watch subbed. There are a few things where I am fine with the dub (most Disney Studio Ghibli releases, for example), but by-and-large I don't touch dubs. However, I think it is crucial for the anime community to know that there is one company out there right now who WILL dub everything. Let Right Stuf or Section 23 or Animego or _______(fill in the blank anime company) consider titles that need to be sub-only. Final thought: Great episode... good job everyone! |
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Ahiru
 Posts: 62 Location: ...just a duck in Oregon |
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You could watch it here on ANN, and at least avoid the CR interface 
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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This is what I agree with.
This is a token of the realism to which I stand in opposition, this being the controversial character of my stance. Two seemingly contradictory utterances may use the same words — superior to use your example — and yet in each case (viz. in each different person's separate speech act) the property connoted by the expression 'superior' in the corresponding proposition for each utterance may be different, in virtue of such properties relating to the speaker in each case. Consider the sentence, "this building is tall". It is permissible to grant that, if said by x at time t, this corresponds to a proposition featuring a relation between a x and the building (which I'll designate with y): At time t, T(x,y). It might not be tall to other people, or indeed the same person at a later date (their standards of tallness may change, for example). I wish for properties such as that of superiority to be reduced in a similar way, mutatis mutandis. If x asserts that "y is superior to z", then for this to be true, the relation S(x,y,z) must be true, as opposed to just a two-way relation between y and z. One can still judge, and this judgement can still be true, but the proposition in virtue of which the judgement is true must include more than just the objects mentioned in the speech act; it must include the speaker as well. I must apologise for not having justified this stance to you as of yet. To be honest, I haven't got round to doing this myself. At present, its mere possibility is all I wish to suggest. You bring up an ethical case, namely the one egoist originally mentioned. The 'full-bodied' subjectivism to which I'm inclined could be formulated to account for such ethical issues in virtue of relational properties and propositions, but I fear I'd stir up even more controversy if I were to do so. Feel free to quiz me about this, however.
A matter of appropriateness to the show, if you ask me. Many have a certain affection for the old Manga UK dubs, but I'm starting to find my dub-only Dominion Tank Police DVDs a difficult watch. My preferences being as they are however, I wouldn't be in much of a position to appreciate other titles dubbed during Manga UK's heyday. |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
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spoiler[Knowing too much about the future was the whole reason he split himself into Fujitaka and Eriol. He also know that Yue would have trouble accepting a new master - which is why he gave the bell to Mizuki.]
From the 2nd volume of Kodansha's bilingual release of the first series: "As I promised. I told the girl in the store it was an engagement ring. Take good care of it until it becomes our wedding ring" - Terada. |
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krelyan
Posts: 173 Location: Utah |
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What I was trying to state was that many often see or hear that statements such as "Blu-ray and DVD quality is comparable." I hate to be overly pedantic, but I've seen many people misinterpret these kind of statements when the author clearly meant "DVD video that has been processed and upscaled". I've had a few friends who try to tell me how they heard there wasn't much of a difference between the two formats so why bother upgrading their non-HD TV sets? I was referencing the yellow composite cables, by the way, not the RGB component cables, as they represent the closest picture quality you can get to a non-progressive scan DVD player just for an extreme example (such as the VHS comment). If I was unclear, I apologize, English was not my first language. And, I do agree that there is little sense in Funi's BD upscales. While a proper upscale should look better than having your DVD/BD player, when you excessively alter the image, as Funi has done, it becomes a zero-sum game (and that's being generous). It's a marketing gimmick to try to appeal to those who just want that Blu-ray name and this could end up coming back to bite them when consumers aren't impressed with their lackluster "upgrades."
By definition, HD material must be 720p, is what I believe you mean. I'm not aware of a single BD player that doesn't have 1080p capabilities as it'd be completely pointless not to.
Stating that those options you listed are being "discovered" by more people is HIGHLY erroneous. 15% of a shrinking market is still many magnitudes higher than a larger percentage in a market that is currently losing you money  . There's a time and a place to expand, and any company that you expect to go diving head-first into the digital world, while abandoning physical media, is going to find itself in a very precarious financial situation. I have to wonder if a situation similar to the early 00's dot-com burst is coming on with digital distribution. If a company were to fully invest in it at the expense of physical media, it'd likely be suicidal. And as long as physical media provides the highest quality experience, it's going to be around in some way.
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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Unfortunately my argument/personal ethics cannot stand a contradiction, although both can be false in my example (dub are superior vs subs are superior) as one forgets that neither/nor is an option. Best way to solve that little conundrum. As to egoist's example I find it hard to believe that both can be true in the situation presented, that "burning women who can do math" is okay versus "burning who can do math" is wrong as they are both absolutes that contradict each other, and it needs solving in this case. Right now I'd say the negative form is the solution in that case as I would not stand the positive form due to my own ethics on the matter. In terms of relativism in general it defeats itself with it's own first and second rules. There are no absolutes. Everything is relative. See it? |
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Kalessin
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Not all BDs are native 1080p. Unlike DVD, Blu-Ray can handle quite a few codecs and resolutions. The maximum is 1080p, but there are definitely releases out there that are in 720p (e.g., IIRC, the BD releases in Japan for Fate/Stay Night and Spice and Wolf are both 720p). In fact, technically speaking, a BD could be released with 480i. You can look at wikipedia's page on Blu-ray for more info if you'd like, but codecs and resolutions for BD can definitely vary. Now, I believe that most releases (particularly of Hollywood films) are released in full 1080p, but that's not always the case. If it's a TV show, the odds of a 720p release are higher because that's the highest HD resolution that they can really broadcast at. HD fansubs, for instance, are almost always 720p. The BDs may very well end up with full 1080p, but there are no guarantees. |
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