Forum - View topicNEWS: Sentai Filmworks Licenses Qwaser of Stigmata Anime
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Banden
 Posts: 140 |
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The attitude is similar in one important way: It is a manifestation of your personal comfort level with the subject matter, which other anime fans, open to new ideas as we generally are, aren't necessarily as hung up on as you are. I am very comfortable with anime's experimentation with gay and lesbian subject matter. I am likewise very comfortable with anime's experimentation with superpowered breast milk. You'll have to forgive me for considering myself open-minded in context. When anti-fanservice people get really strident about their point of view and say ridiculous things about it being the cancer that's killing anime and other irrational nonsense, it's hard not to see parallels to crazy things fundies say about gay rights and gay marriage. I'm not sure the attitude is as different as you think. Don't support fan service? Don't look at any. Problem solved. |
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Some people need to chill a little. While it's too late to really pull the content from this thread, the line was crossed a number of times in the past 3 to 4 pages. I don't care how much of a hot button issue something is for you, you still need to respect other posters and their rights to their own opinions.
Have to agree with ikillchicken on this one. Those two things aren't similar and any attitude similarity is irrelevant due to the massive gulf between the things. The rights of gay people is a very real and global issue that isn't just about someones comfort level with something but also largely about people trampling the rights of others because they disagree with it. A magical superpower of granting breast milk is not even close to that level and the attitude as a result is not comparable since these things are very very different in both their scope and implication. In one case you have a case of civil rights, and in the other you just have something that is arguably the most laughably eye-rolling thing to be put in to a fan-service anime yet. It doesn't even have to have anything to do with comfort level, it's just that much of a humorous stretch that it makes the whole genre look like it's jumping the shark at this point. When other genres and even mediums leap in to the realm of the ludicrous people are quick to jump on those. I fail to see why any fanservice fan would feel that it is somehow exempt for being called out in a similar fashion. |
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Parse Error
 Posts: 592 |
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Aren't these two distinct issues, though? What I mean is, there are people who make fun of anime with cute girls doing cute things, but I doubt very many of them would actually want to trample on the civil rights of cute girls who do cute things. |
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Banden
Posts: 140 |
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That's true, and I would agree with you 100% except for the fact that there are two very distinct issues here that you're conflating haphazardly without realizing it. I have to refer back to enurtsol's comment that ikillchicken was replying to:
ikillchicken replied to this with a comment about "gay people", and now you're lecturing us on global gay rights advocacy, but that's a very different and distinct (though important) conversation than the one we've been having about Qwaser of Stigmata and anime licensing in this thread. What people have been discussing in this thread are fictional representations in the media. On the one hand we have the overt gay and lesbian themes in things like Brokeback Mountain, among countless others, which draw more than their fair share of complaints from overzealous moral crusaders in the public at large who tell us that realistic depictions of same-sex relationships are "inappropriate" and "go too far" and apparently believe that those filmmakers shouldn't be given the creative control to make that kind of film. On the other hand, we have the overt sexuality of Qwaser of Stigmata drawing the very same complaints from some posters here who seem to think the rest of us should be expected to subscribe to their sheltered sex-negative worldview. The arguments employed are the same in both cases though. That's the parallel between them, whether one chooses to acknowledge it or not. In both cases, people should act like grown-ups and watch something else instead of crowing about how their obsession of choice destroys everything else good in the world. They need to get over themselves. Gay rights advocates ask their critics to get out of their bedrooms, I ask strident anti-fanservice people to get out of my living room. I don't have any problems with people who don't like fanservice. Plenty of people in this thread have expressed that point of view without being preachy snobs about it. willag, for instance. But for others in this thread, fanservice has become a soapbox issue, and I get tired of hearing them tell me how anime should be. ikillchicken isn't necessarily one of those individuals, but some of his comments go down that path just enough to invite a reaction from me. |
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Parse Error
Posts: 592 |
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Obviously I agree with most of what you're saying, but this statement is problematic because now you are bringing the civil rights issues into it yourself. Ecchi fans having to deal with some condescending remarks on the Internet and the kind of discrimination, abuse, and outright physical danger that gay people face are two things so far apart that they cannot even be compared to one another. I'm only on board to the extent of people criticizing fictional works that don't appeal to them. |
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Banden
Posts: 140 |
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Discrimination, abuse, and outright physical danger that gay people face is a big issue that it's important for the whole society to have a conversation about and make progress on. Like I said to Keonyn, I agree with that statement 100% on its own merits. But that's a very different kind of gay issue from what I'm talking about here, and what we've all been discussing with regard to Qwaser at least until enursol's mention of Brokeback Mountain. My thing is not a civil rights thing per se, it's more of a respect thing, in the same way any of us would want to see Brokeback Mountain respected for the people who want to see it, without being altered or left unreleased altogether (which some have said they wanted to happen to Qwaser) to pacify selfish demands of anti-gay fundie viewers. |
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eyeofthetiger
Posts: 49 |
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Perghaps you and your mod comrades should've thought of that before allowing the anti-ecchi brigade continue with their rampage for as long as you have. Really? What do you expect? For this to continue on for all eternity without any kind of backlash? What if?(and bear with me on this) What if you have shut that down from the get-go? The problem with respect peoples' opinions is that the Usual Suspects don't believe in the concept of MUTUAL RESPECT. I'm not going to respect the opinion(and we're way beyond this point) of those don't respect mine. It's just the way it is. Maybe you should stop being part of the problem inserting your own personal feelings when it comes to ecchi and do your effing job. |
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Surrender Artist
 Posts: 3264 Location: Pennsylvania, USA |
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I wasn't really objecting to the claims that certain kinds of, lets be diplomatic and say, "exaggeration," are distinctive of anime, but the elevation of those traits. I'm not sure anymore if post that provoked me meant what I initially read it as, but I saw it as trying to push more traditionally intellectual and artistic content out and make anime about, well, the kind of stuff that Qwaser of the Stigmata offers in spades with anything else being almost incidental, if not outright unwelcome. That kind of thinking bothers me, perhaps inordinately so. Part of it is purely personal; it feels like they're trying to put the equivalent of a, "no dogs allowed," aimed at people like me on anime. The other part is that I feel that it demeans animation, Japanese or otherwise, as much as the, "cartoons are for kids and maybe comedy," mentality stereotypical of the west and might lead to a creative dead-end that will be enjoyed by an inflexible, hardcore rump of fans while fewer and fewer new people outside of that care or join in.
I figured that it was a byproduct of how hotly polarized this kind of thread gets. You're pretty cool most of the time and although I know you like your ecchi lots, I also know it's not the end-all or be all of what you're into; that diversity a good thing. Besides an occassional tongue lashing can be good for encouraging one to keep a sense of perspective. Besides, Michiko e Hatchin and Aoi Hana got licensed, so nothing's going to keep me down right now. All is copacetic.
Hey! I resemble that remark! |
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Keonyn
Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Did you report them? I don't recall seeing any reports from you on any issues regarding the behavior of others. Looking through the current report history I don't see anything from you. I can tell you this much though, your blatant disrespect towards others here and towards the mods isn't going to get you anywhere. My own personal feelings are also not in play here, nor do you even know my personal feelings regarding ecchi so your implication is not only insulting, but baseless. Here's the bottom line though; being civil and respectful towards other users isn't an option you can choose to ignore when you damn well please. Whether you feel it is justified or not is irrelevant, because it is simply a violation of the rules. You wish to keep it up then I can put you under moderation or you can get banned, that is a choice I will let you make. If you have an issue with forum moderation, the rules or whatever then you can take that to the feedback forum where it belongs instead of trying to derail this thread. |
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eyeofthetiger
Posts: 49 |
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I shouldn't have to report them. All it takes is a little common sense the anti ecchi brigade need to shut down long ago. Given your own personal feelings of the subject, its no surprise you're on anyone asking for sembelance of peace and stability. I stand by my pricinples of mutual respect even if youdon't. I'm NOT respecting the opinions of those who don't respect mine and believe their opinion is the one that matters. Not gonna happen. Treat others the way you want to be treated. The Usual Suspects don't and never have believed that. |
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Keonyn
Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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We can't see everything and be everywhere. Just like with a crime, reporting it is a big step to helping the powers that be do something about it. You can't refuse to report the posts and then get mad nothing was done about them. Plus, you haven't pointed out these problematic posts, or the problematic users that make them, and so on. Who are "The Usual Suspects"? Where did they post this offending content? When did they post it? What do my personal opinions have to do with this given that I never chime in on this topic and am largely indifferent? All you've done is fire off baseless accusations and attack other posters and the mods here for actions/inactions you refuse to elaborate on.
Plus, I've told you once and I'm telling you for the last time; this thread isn't the place for your grievances regarding this forum, the users, the mods, etc. There is a feedback forum for discussions along these lines and I am placing you under moderation until you're willing to take the discussion where it belongs instead of repeatedly spamming this thread with your off-topic arguments. So with that, this thread is returning to its intended purpose. If you want to continue this tirade then take it where it belongs. |
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notazaku
 Posts: 135 |
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Yeah I don’t think he was trying to elevated fanservice to the exclusion of everything else found in the medium. I think he was just saying that those exaggerated elements are distinctive to anime but I don't think he was saying that they define the medium as a whole. I could be wrong but that’s my reading of it at least. Personally when I see fanservice I don’t think “THIS IS ANIME”. That’s too narrow a view point for me. And this is coming from a fan of many ecchi series. I would consider it a distinctive element of anime though but it’s just one distinctive element. Somewhat OT, what's with the random subject lines when I reply with a quote? |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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There is absolutely nothing "personal" about being uncomfortable with homosexuality. If you won't watch a movie just because it has gay people in it you are simply being a homophobic uber-douche. "Don't support fan service? Don't look at any. Problem solved." Fine, but... Don't like homosexuality? Get the hell over it! You shouldn't have to "not look at it" to solve the problem. It's not something that should be a problem for anyone in the first place and if it is, they're simply wrong. That's the big difference here.
Has anyone actually insulted you personally? Maybe they have and I just missed it. But honestly, your definition of "respect" seems to be "nobody is allowed to criticize the show I like". |
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Polycell
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Banden
Posts: 140 |
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What do those words even mean? That sentence is completely non sequitur. Of course having a problem with gay people is a personal problem. It's called
Yeah, that. Thing is, being a homophobe isn't like being an anime fan or a gay person. It's an attitudinal description, and there are people with that attitude who would love to be society's morality police and hold all of us to their irrational small-minded worldview. People who make grand claims about fanservice in anime being a problem aren't that much different. One is a homophobic uber-douche, the other is a Puritan uber-douche. Both types should sit down and shut up and let people without irrational hangups move forward with their lives.
This statement doesn't follow logically either. You seem to think that by proclaiming things to be wrong you're actually going to change anybody's mind about the subject. I wonder how well that works out for you in practice? In reality it's pretty clear that there will always be haters, and they often try to be the loudest voices in the room. But even if they are, at some point it needs to be made clear to them that they aren't the center of the universe and the rest of the world feels differently and won't cower behind their insecurities with them. Don't like Brokeback Mountain because you're a homophobe? Fine, whatever, feel free to stew about it in private while everyone else watches the movie. Don't like Qwaser of Stigmata because you're a sex-fearing Puritan? Fine, whatever, feel free to stew about it in private while everyone else watches the show. It's as simple as that. Reign over your own living room with an iron fist, stay out of everyone else's. EDIT: RE: "Don't like homosexuality? Get the hell over it!": You just went full circle and took a gay rights slogan that I borrowed and applied to anime fanservice, back into a gay rights slogan. Before you start preaching how "simply wrong" the idea is, open your mind for two seconds and consider the implications. Last edited by Banden on Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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