Forum - View topicBoogiepop Phantom (TV).
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
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I like it so much I bought it twice
The only reason I saw it initially as they had it on sale in Virgin along with a load of other ADV stuff - and that was pretty much the first time I'd ever see anime in a sale on the highstreet other than, say, Akira. I've since bought the ultra limited box set from Rightstuf as it turned back up out of the blue in a sale there a while back. The vignette effect, reduced colour palette and non-linear storyline were all unique or at least unusual, and would not have worked if there wasn't a strong and intriguing storyline to go with them. Another unique thing is that, I think it is the only (dubbed) anime I have with a commentary track for every episode (although I have two R2J DVD sets like this, AIR and Uta Kata) and also the only commentary I've ever heard featuring Crispin Freeman. |
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RDespair
 Posts: 244 Location: California |
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If you're looking for something similar to BP, the videogames Siren 1&2 for the PS2 are well worth checking out. They're horror games where you play as around a dozen different characters and you have to piece the story together from the plot's non-linear progression (thankfully, the games give you a timeline so you can tell where each level fits in the overall picture). Very stylistic graphics as well (mostly shades of black, gray, and red).
The first game is available everywhere, whereas the second game is only available in Europe and Asia (hopefully an American version will come out soon). |
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Mr.Roboto
 Posts: 105 Location: USA |
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11299 Location: Frisco, TX |
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An insult's an insult. You didn't exactly say anything good about it either. I'm guessing you've seen all of it and are just making assumptions on why you think the general anime fan would not like this, right? If so, I'm sure it won't be difficult for you to find some positive things to say in your defence  .
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indrik
 Posts: 365 Location: yonder |
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I largely agree with Key's points on this one. It does seem pretty thick and complex, but it comes together fairly well at the end. I think a lot of folks probably watch the first disc or so and give up. I recall it being pretty popular, well talked about, a couple of years or so ago- 2003 seems right. Then poof, it vanishes. There seem to be a lot of good series that do this: Kino's Journey comes to mind. Don't seem to be a lot of people talking about that one. I've thought a lot about why some series seem to get talked about and last, and others that are as good if not better rapidly cool off and vanish into obscurity. I've got no good answer, though.
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Randall Miyashiro
 Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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There have been a few threads on Boogiepop in the past. I am a huge fan and have watched it a few times since it is a subtle series. The english audio commentary is one of the best in my opinion. They talk about the series structure and help explain things, unlike so many other commentaries where people just crack jokes. The live action film also helped clarify things. I'm glad that the novels are also being released. I tend to like series based off of novels more than those from manga. They tend to be more complex, and aimed for an older audience.
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18193 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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All the Boogiepop stuff is very clearly aimed at a teen audience, however. (Or is this what you mean by "older audience?") It speaks much more to the teen condition, and would probably be empathized with more by teens.
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Randall Miyashiro
Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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I actually do mean older as in teens, compared to all of those currently popular Shonen Jump titles. Most of the popular manga adaptations seem to be gathered from young Shonen series. Stories like Crest of the Stars, Twelve Kingdoms, and Scrapped Princess all have characters that are about that high school age bracket. Many of those Shonen Jump stories feel (to me) as if they are aimed towards charcters that are more Tsubasa Ozora, Kasuga Kyosuke, Naruto, Yuugi, and Hikaru Shindo age. Granted we are only talking about a few years, but I feel that I can enjoy stories aimed at 15-18, over the 11-15 age bracket. There are of course a few Shonen Jump titles I do enjoy like Cat's Eye and City Hunter. Shonen Sunday also seems to have a number of Gash Bell and Ranma type titles that seem bit on the younger side, although Patlabor ran in it. As far as shojo goes Nakayoshi has titles like Ray Earth, Sailor Moon, and Cardcaptor Sakura. There are really not too many long running television series based off of manga that are aimed towards the post high school crowd. The only publications that comes to mind for a 16+ bracket are Young King Ours which has Trigun, Excel, and Hellsing and Dengeki Daioh, whose demographic I have a hard time placing.
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-gecko-
 Posts: 285 Location: Near Seattle, WA |
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I didn't get the annoyance of ugly packaging; I'm watching (up to Ep 8 now) on Select on Demand (Comcast).
I seem to be in a minority here, following the story just fine. I guess it's due to the lag in time between viewings. Eithier that or I'm enjoying it piecemeal without "getting it". I love the cinematography of this series and the chara are closer to your average people than in most anime. |
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eyeresist
 Posts: 995 Location: a 320x240 resolution igloo (Sydney) |
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I just wanted to bump this thread, to see if anyone new had become aware of this series.
I would rank Boogiepop Phantom in my top ten anime list, but it's not for everyone, with its highly fragmented, allusory narrative, and its extreme darkness, both visually and in terms of mood. Confusion The narrative is confused due to its deliberate fragmentation, but there IS an underlying sense to it, unlike (IMO) shows of similar mood like Lain and Texhnolyze, which often seem created to not-make-sense. The main thing you need to know is that there was a Mysterious Event, which has caused some teens to develop strange powers (as well as causing some other anomolies). The Mysterious Event was the "death" of Manticore, a monster in human form, whose legacy lingers in several ways. There is also a secret organisation conspiring away, though as far as the anime goes this is largely just a red herring. The show can also be difficult to follow because the character designs are mostly very subtle, and not very distinctive, I think for reasons of realism. For this reason, and because of the fragmented narrative, I'd really recommend viewers to watch the show over only one or two days. Too much time between episodes will result in confusion and subsequent disappointment. Multiple Iterations I've seen the film and read the first three (actually two) novels, and this series remains my favourite take on the story. The novels are not very descriptive in terms of visuals or mood, being mostly fairly bland description of thoughts and events, whereas the anime uses dark, monochrome, starkly stylised visuals in combination with a spooky sound design that remains unique in my experience - all this means I find the anime much more effective than the novels in creating an atmosphere of horror. The film was actually not bad, considering it was a low-budget effort made very quickly, but it obviously suffers for it. I did like the actress playing Nagi - she didn't resemble the drawings, but looked well cool in her black motorcycle jacket. Interpretation This is a series where the English commentaries are actually a valuable supplement to the experience, but I want to emphasise that the commentors' theories on the meaning of the series are only their theories. BP could be about the need to leave the past and move forward (and isn't that what so much anime is about?), but it might also be about how Japanese youth are so alienated from their elders that they're almost like a separate society; or about how we are all ultimately doomed or saved by our what our parents want for us. Like the other series I mentioned above, this is a show that positively welcomes multiple interpretations. Gloom (figurative) The previous poster said that this anime is aimed at teens, but if that's so then I think it must be with the intention of making them commit suicide  , as it's the most unremittingly bleak show I've ever seen. Every episode seems to be about teenagers feeling alienated and alone, and ending up dead. Only the unreal, vaguely supernatural tone of the show helps it remain palatable.
Gloom (literal) In my boxset, the final volume seems to have been mastered with a much higher brightness level compared to previous volumes. I own the Australian release - does this issue also appear in the US edition? I guess the reason is that people complained about the show being so dark that it can sometimes be difficult to see anything. The thing is that it's supposed to be like that. Watch in a fairly dark room, and experiment with brightness levels on your monitor to make sure you're seeing all on-screen detail, without washing out the image, for the full spooky Boogiepop Phantom experience. |
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pparker
 Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
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I watched it a few weeks ago after finally getting Boogiepop and Others and Boogiepop at Dawn, since the consensus seemed to be that Others was required in order to understand the anime. I think that's an understatement, frankly, though I did not delve into other references having read the novel. Ironically, I got confused and read Dawn instead of Others before watching the show, but it still helped a lot because it explains Boogiepop's origins. I don't think I missed anything major in the anime plot line because that story does intersect and inform Phantom's story. I tried watching the live action, after the anime, but I'm too much of a movie snob. Kurosawa is about all I can stand of Japanese live action (except Kamikaze Girls... Yay!), because every other one I've seen ranges from a student film (Boogiepop) to passable B-movie production. I couldn't help thinking of the first episode of Haruhi Suzumiya. My viewpoint on the art production and specifically the lensing effect was that it detracted from the show rather than adding to it. The characters are fairly realistic, and hard to distinguish (I know it's not realistic, but Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei is great at avoiding rainbow hair color and still making every character easily identifiable.) My thought was, this was probably unique and edgy at the time, but doesn't age well. I don't think the story would be as confusing with a clearer picture, and being forced to watch the story through the effects just made for an annoying experience. Maybe it's just my old eyes... OTOH, I enjoyed Serial Experiments Lain quite a bit when I first saw it. It being straight cyberpunk helps, I'm sure. What I did like was the chronological markers. Of course, without those, I would have no hope of following the story. BTW, having read some of Others now, I think most adults would enjoy Dawn far more. First, I generally do not like first-person narrative, and especially when the narrators are high school kids. Today, of course, with the Web, it almost sounds like pretentious Live Journal. The writing in Dawn seems more sophisticated because it isn't restricted in voice, and it isn't even the same school setting as the anime. Most anyone could enjoy it as a standalone supernatural horror story, though it's still obtuse in some areas (not a bad thing, really... just leaves you wanting more). None of this means I didn't like the story itself or appreciate its overall uniqueness and quality. Maybe I'll bypass my huge stack of unwatched shows and give it another viewing. If so, I'll probably have more, and maybe better, to say about it. |
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eyeresist
Posts: 995 Location: a 320x240 resolution igloo (Sydney) |
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I found the anime enjoyable without full knowledge of the back-story. This seems to be one of the things that divides viewers. Possibly the very mysteriousness of the events gives them added power.
I wouldn't say the live action was a "student film" - they just had a budget equivalent to a couple of hours of daytime television, and did the best they could with it. There were some decent acting performances, though obviously it's hard to be consistent across such a large cast. I think it's an enjoyable supplement to the franchise, provided you don't expect some sort of blockbuster CGI extravaganza.
I'm sure your eyes aren't as old as mine! I guess we'll just have to disagree on this aspect. I found watching the show with its sepia "vignette" style really atmospheric, especially watching on TV late at night. It did sometimes seem unfocused, which I think is a legitimate issue, but I found it a welcome change from the standard J-horror style. Interestingly, spoiler[this effect vanishes in the last episode, and seems to have been a side-effect of the electromagnetic disturbance over the city. The return to colour symbolises a return to (relative) goodness and normality]. Where does Dawn come in the series? |
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pparker
Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
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For some reason, I suppose the distraction of the vignette, I didn't get into it as much as I normally would. Good on you for getting it without the supplemental material.
I know I'm being harsh. I have 1000 movie DVDs on my shelf that include mostly top AFI and Oscar films. Believe me, I know I am a snob
Ha! I remember, I literally felt better about the show when that happened. I know the reason for the vignette as well, but I still see it as a gimmick that doesn't add to the story.
It's billed as a prequel, and according to one site is the first novel written in the series. Partly, it is Nagi's story, who she really is and how she came to be that way. Also entirely explains Dr Kisugi and her actions. It's definitely worth a read, whether connected to Phantom or not. Good short description on this page (good reference place generally for Boogiepop): http://www.gomanga.com/news/boogiepop_03.php, and more in depth here: animenewsnetwork.com/review/boogiepop-at-dawn/novel |
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eyeresist
Posts: 995 Location: a 320x240 resolution igloo (Sydney) |
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Nagi was for me the most interesting and enjoyable character, and I'd like to know more of what Kisugi was up to, so this sounds like a must buy - thanks! |
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Fear Ghoul
 Posts: 65 |
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Boogiepop Phantom is an incredibly underrated series, considering that trite such as Naruto gets a similar popular rating on anime websites while Lain gets all the attention from those looking for something different. Susan Napier doesn't mention Boogiepop Phantom at all in her book about "From Akira to Howl's Moving Castle" while she typically gives a lot of attention to Lain, just like everyone else. I consider Boogiepop Phantom to be better than anything else I have seen by a long shot, and thus deserving of more praise than it currently recieves from anime fans and more attention in professional studies.
Professional critics seem to appreciate it more. Most professional reviews I've seen give it an A.
Boogiepop at Dawn isn't a prequel because it was written before Boogiepop Phantom was made, although it is set 5 years previous to the "present" timeline in Boogiepop Phantom. The book was 6th in the boogiepop light novel series, and was released in August 1999 I believe, with Phantom coming in January 2000.
I liked the way it made the world seem constricted and distorted, and highlighted the way that people are unable to see beyond their own viewpoint and understand what was going on. But I suppose it won't work for everybody.
The problem is that in Japan, like a lot of places, most people have only a couple of hair styles, so making the character designs realistic while also changing the design of all the character's hair would have been counter-intuitive. In reality, only a handful of characters have similar appearance in Boogiepop Phantom anyway, and even characters such as Miyashita and Kuroda who appear in the opening credits of every episode often seem to be forgotten. I think the reason why Zetsubou works in this regard is because most of the characters are seen all the time, so the audience gets the chance to familiarize themselves with them over a long time period of time. I still have to remind people who most of the characters are from Boogiepop Phantom though, even if they do get a whole episode to themselves.
That was the same with me. I didn't understand most of what was going on, but the sheer brilliance of the series in every other regard convinced me to buy the series before I'd even finished watching it at our anime society. Right after episode 8 in fact. |
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This is twice now you've gone into a thread screaming "sucks sucks sucks!" without explaining why. You didn't explain why you thought Naruto had a crappy story, and now you haven't explained why you thought Boogiepop was "ugly and boring."
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