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Ugoki



Joined: 24 Oct 2014
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:23 pm Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
I always see non-Murricans talking about all of the anime their countries aired when they were kids, like Saint Seiya all over the place and Harlock in France, and both of those and more in Italy. It would have been nice to see those WMT anime get dubbed since they're mostly European or North American works to begin with. Though I'd question their feasibility of licensing even now, not many people are chomping at the bit to see the new Anne or Les Miserables.


Only Little Women and Swiss Family Robinson got dubbed in English, IIRC. You can watch them in Smile of A Child if you want to.

And about the new Anne and Les Mis, it's still getting dubbed in non-English languages, like Arabic for example.

It's interesting that each countries have their own favorite WMTs. Philiphine loved Little Princess Sara and Little Prince Cedie so much that they made their own live-action version. In Israel, Marco was popular enough to be referenced in the news. And motherfucking Iran loved Lucy and Katri.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
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Location: Cypress, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:54 pm Reply with quote
jsevakis wrote:

Regardless who posited the question, it was an interesting one to answer, and it actually has come up before. Not everyone who reads the column also visits the forums, or has any idea who the asker was. My goal is purely to find the good, answerable questions, research, and write an answer that will inform as many people as possible. Anything beyond that is out of my control, and I tend to ignore it for the most part. (It's the only way to stay sane writing this column.)


And thank you for your response Justin. I like to get a veteran experience on how and why Japan lag behind on marketing and globalization of pop culture when South Korea outdid it, and very quickly too. I like your thought and response on it. When I became a K-pop fan last year I was actually amazed of how South Korea is playing the marketing/globalization game better then Japan and how quickly Korean pop culture has become popular worldwide in just 2-3 years. This has made me question and even want to investigate why did Japan lose it's cool few years ago and South Korea got ahead. I watched videos on Youtube on how and the secret behind it, read research papers, attended a Global Hallyu forum last year.

Justin if I find more articles on the Japan and South Korea pop culture comparison and one that talked about how Japan lag and South Korea succeeded, I'll PM you with the article. As I said over the email, it won't be South Korea alone that can replicate this, I do see Taiwan as a potential rival to South Korea's Hallyu Wave.
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reanimator



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1299
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:09 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
reanimator wrote:


As a Korean American who seldom watch Korean shows (I do like their game/variety shows though), I find mdo7's incessant glorification of K-Pop/Drama and constant downplay on anime obnoxious. At one time, he sent me this super long private message about how well Korean media is doing after I made a comment on how obnoxious he is on the forum.

Since Justin answered mdo7's question with clarity, I hope he could just shut up about how wonderful K-pop/drama is. We all get it. Being a K-pop fan is fine and all, but being obnoxious is not fine.


Hey whoa, whoa. All I just did was submit a question, and I thought mine on why did Cool Japan fail when South Korea was able to do this was a very interesting question. I've already tone down my love of K-pop/K-dramas. But South Korea has made a lot of anime fans questioning why Japan didn't market and globalize their pop culture beyond anime including their celebrities outside of Asia when South Korea was able to do this.


You asked a good question about difference between how Koreans and Japanese market their media. I had the similar thought about why isn't Japan isn't doing the same thing as Korea years ago. Then I realized that Japanese live action is already a failure and anime is niche even to their own mainstream, so it's a waste of time to worry about how Japanese run their business. My thought is that they should learn their lesson through failure. I want Japanese mainstream media to fail because they will not grow without experiencing serious difficulties.

Anyway, it's your overt obsessiveness with Korea that irks me and others. We all figured out that you love everything about Korea and more inclined toward live action than animation. That is fine and sometimes flattering (to me and other Korean-Americans).

The problem is that you have this obsessive tendency to overwhelm people with wall of links & texts on just about any subject matter remotely related to Korea and its relationship with Japan. That's why I singled you out because you don't know where to draw the line. If you don't have anything interesting to say or has irrelevant subject matters, then it's best to be quiet.
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SquadmemberRitsu



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1372
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:15 pm Reply with quote
Okay, I get that all those bad dubs from the 90s can be excused for their shittyness and I get that not all of them were as bad as Garzey's Wing.

So where's Sentai's excuse for putting out terrible dubs on a regular basis? They occasionally get lucky like with Watamote, HOTD and Kill me Baby but for every dub like that there's about 10 dubs that are sub par like Tamako Market and Girls und Panzer or completely unbearably godawful tripe like Little Busters and Prisma Illya with casting choices that make you swear they were on drugs and voice acting that should be used as a legal method of torture. They've been around for quite some time now but notice all my examples were fairly recent dubs.

Every other active dubbing company is, on average, decent. They've all made bad dubs in the past but it's a clear minority compared to the good stuff they've made. But when it comes to Sentai I seem to find a lot more bad than good. And trust me, I've tried very hard to find the good.


Last edited by SquadmemberRitsu on Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Hoppy800



Joined: 09 Aug 2013
Posts: 2706
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:22 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
jsevakis wrote:

Regardless who posited the question, it was an interesting one to answer, and it actually has come up before. Not everyone who reads the column also visits the forums, or has any idea who the asker was. My goal is purely to find the good, answerable questions, research, and write an answer that will inform as many people as possible. Anything beyond that is out of my control, and I tend to ignore it for the most part. (It's the only way to stay sane writing this column.)


And thank you for your response Justin. I like to get a veteran experience on how and why Japan lag behind on marketing and globalization of pop culture when South Korea outdid it, and very quickly too. I like your thought and response on it. When I became a K-pop fan last year I was actually amazed of how South Korea is playing the marketing/globalization game better then Japan and how quickly Korean pop culture has become popular worldwide in just 2-3 years. This has made me question and even want to investigate why did Japan lose it's cool few years ago and South Korea got ahead. I watched videos on Youtube on how and the secret behind it, read research papers, attended a Global Hallyu forum last year.

Justin if I find more articles on the Japan and South Korea pop culture comparison and one that talked about how Japan lag and South Korea succeeded, I'll PM you with the article. As I said over the email, it won't be South Korea alone that can replicate this, I do see Taiwan as a potential rival to South Korea's Hallyu Wave.


I want to see Taiwan competing with K-Pop, since I have a thing for Taiwanese women (even the average ones tend to be cute from my own experience), put some in (and some good looking women from Mainland China or HK for good measure) with at least a decent amount of talent and I'm there in seconds if not even faster.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:29 pm Reply with quote
reanimator wrote:


You asked a good question about difference between how Koreans and Japanese market their media. I had the similar thought about why isn't Japan isn't doing the same thing as Korea years ago. Then I realized that Japanese live action is already a failure and anime is niche even to their own mainstream, so it's a waste of time to worry about how Japanese run their business. My thought is that they should learn their lesson through failure. I want Japanese mainstream media to fail because they will not grow without experiencing serious difficulties.


Yeah you're not alone, I will agree that Japanese live-action (well their film, but not their dramas and Toku) are lagging behind compared to not only Korea, but also Mainland China too.

I'll agreed that Japan can learn their lesson through failure, but I don't think it's working in my opinion, and their population is aging (including a shrinking population too). But the problem is by the time Japan face these failures, it'll probably be too late for their economy and their workforce. I don't want to see this from Japan, but they're too slow and reluctant to change. I'm very sorry for Japan, I'm very sorry to see them going this direction.

Quote:
Anyway, it's your overt obsessiveness with Korea that irks me and others. We all figured out that you love everything about Korea and more inclined toward live action than animation. That is fine and sometimes flattering (to me and other Korean-Americans).

The problem is that you have this obsessive tendency to overwhelm people with wall of links & texts on just about any subject matter remotely related to Korea and its relationship with Japan. That's why I singled you out because you don't know where to draw the line. If you don't have anything interesting to say or has irrelevant subject matters, then it's best to be quiet.


Well you know how excited and rabid us K-pop fans are. Wink

But anyway, I will apologize for my over the top obsessive-ness with South Korea. I mean I was so impressed how South Korea was able to impress the world with their pop culture. I mean Japan never marketed their other product beyond anime, manga, and video game. I mean AKB48 never got to the global fame that Girls Generation/SNSD got. As a matter of fact, K-pop did many thing that J-pop (or any Asian pop music) was never able to do: go global.

Also K-pop is giving a positive view for Asian-Americans I mean I'll credit K-drama popularity for giving Asian Americans more TV airplay in the US. It's inspiring other Asian countries (ie: Taiwan) except Japan to replicate what South Korea did.

Also if it wasn't for K-drama popularity outside of Asia, then Taiwanese Drama and dramas from Hong Kong may not have found audiences outside of Asia (which Japan didn't even do for their J-dramas and Toku shows, Japan didn't cash in on this when Taiwan and Hong Kong did this immediately).

So yes, I'm very proud for South Korea to do something that no other Asian countries was able to do.

Again, I apologize for my over the top fanboyism on K-pop culture, they just do things that Japan wasn't able to do beyond anime, manga, and video game.

Hoppy800 wrote:

I want to see Taiwan competing with K-Pop, since I have a thing for Taiwanese women (even the average ones tend to be cute from my own experience), put some in (and some good looking women from Mainland China or HK for good measure) with at least a decent amount of talent and I'm there in seconds if not even faster.


Oh I'm sure they'll do it, they'll be training hard to compete with their Korean counterpart. That's why Taiwan has already invested a lot of money into revitalizing their music market, I've already heard about Taiwanese trainees going to South Korea to get additional training.
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poonk



Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 1490
Location: In the Library with Philip
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:35 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
(stuff)
Here's the thing: J-media fans don't care if K-media is more mainstream in the West. But the constant attempts to rub our noses in it, for reasons I can't comprehend, is very off-putting.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 3957
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:37 pm Reply with quote
Hoppy800 wrote:
I just want a South Korean company to enter the console market, give me something that will revitalize my love for console gaming.


That's a neat idea especially if you like RTS's which the system's entire library would probably consist of.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:46 pm Reply with quote
poonk wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
(stuff)
Here's the thing: J-media fans don't care if K-media is more mainstream in the West. But the constant attempts to rub our noses in it, for reasons I can't comprehend, is very off-putting.


Well, I met some rabid one that didn't appreciate K-media getting all the western media attention even going as far as throwing racist insults at Koreans. Although you might not care, but my only concern is: the J-media fans that are too obssesed with Japan and aren't open-minded to other Asian media including Koreans may not like it when K-pop/K-media (or any Asian media that is not Japanese) is getting more mainstream attention then J-media, because well you know how some people are.


Last edited by mdo7 on Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mikeski



Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 608
Location: Minneapolis, MN
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:47 pm Reply with quote
poonk wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
(stuff)
Here's the thing: J-media fans don't care if K-media is more mainstream in the West. But the constant attempts to rub our noses in it, for reasons I can't comprehend, is very off-putting.

Kinda like going to a vegan website and spending thousands and thousands of posts talking about how wonderful bacon is. It doesn't matter that bacon really is awesome... you're still extremely rude to discuss it in that place.
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Hoppy800



Joined: 09 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:49 pm Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
Hoppy800 wrote:
I just want a South Korean company to enter the console market, give me something that will revitalize my love for console gaming.


That's a neat idea especially if you like RTS's which the system's entire library would probably consist of.


I like RTS, but that genre is almost non-existent on consoles nowadays. Plus an RTS surge will get SE to think for once and revive the Front Mission series (or most likely make a spiritual successor to it) as RTS games for the console.
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poonk



Joined: 05 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:13 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
Although you might not care, but my only concern is: the J-media fans that are too obssesed with Japan and aren't open-minded to other Asian media including Koreans may not like it when K-pop/K-media (or any Asian media that is not Japanese) is getting more mainstream attention then J-media, because well you know how some people are.
I don't see this happening here in this forum (or really any of the number of drama sites I frequent). Actually, I find that K-media consumers here in the West, who are often newer fans in general (having arrived with the relatively recent advent of legal streaming sites), tend to not be open to trying J-media-- not because it's not available to them (because let's be real, it's all pretty much available one way or another) but because it's not neatly handed to them via a streaming site (i.e., it takes slightly more than minimal effort to find the shows).

And if (some) J-media fans tend to not like Korean dramas it's often because of the over-reliance on particular tropes* and the like, not because they're somehow "jealous" of K-media success. But all this proselytizing doesn't help open the hearts of all those close-minded J-media fans-- whoever they are.

*(Me, I'm currently totally sick of the "poverty-stricken heroine [who still has a very nice wardrobe and roomy apartment and the latest smartphone OF COURSE] meets rich and/or famous guy" storyline-- please Korea, give me a hero who just has a normal job.)
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Ugoki



Joined: 24 Oct 2014
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:29 pm Reply with quote
reanimator wrote:
Then I realized that Japanese live action is already a failure


it's far from a failure in their own land though.

For example, Hanako to Anne has the number one rating in its primetime slot.

poonk wrote:

And if (some) J-media fans tend to not like Korean dramas it's often because of the over-reliance on particular tropes*


Oh hey, just like some anime do!

poonk wrote:

*(Me, I'm currently totally sick of the "poverty-stricken heroine [who still has a very nice wardrobe and roomy apartment and the latest smartphone OF COURSE] meets rich and/or famous guy" storyline-- please Korea, give me a hero who just has a normal job.)


Really, if you want to have poverty in your story, you gotta portray is as real poverty, not poverty-in-name-only. It had the potential to be an interesting social commentary.

If WMT anime who are aimed at kids can portray poverty correctly, why can't more mature shows do?


Last edited by Ugoki on Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fedora-san



Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 351
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:34 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
Although you might not care, but my only concern is: the J-media fans that are too obssesed with Japan and aren't open-minded to other Asian media including Koreans may not like it when K-pop/K-media (or any Asian media that is not Japanese) is getting more mainstream attention then J-media, because well you know how some people are.


mdo, you are literally the only person I ever see talk about Korean stuff, let alone with such enthusiasm. In all my experiences, Korean shows are not talked about in the same breath as Walking Dead or Game of Thrones in terms of being "mainstream".

I just have to seriously question how big Korean shows are in the west compared to anime. If they're so popular why aren't they airing on big TV channels like anime is? How come tons of American media ape Japanese shows rather than Korean ones? Like all the anime influenced cartoons and movies, or live action stuff like Power Rangers and it's many American rip offs which are based on tokusatsu?
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Videogamep



Joined: 10 Jun 2014
Posts: 564
Location: CA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:37 pm Reply with quote
SquadmemberRitsu wrote:
Okay, I get that all those bad dubs from the 90s can be excused for their shittyness and I get that not all of them were as bad as Garzey's Wing.

So where's Sentai's excuse for putting out terrible dubs on a regular basis? They occasionally get lucky like with Watamote, HOTD and Kill me Baby but for every dub like that there's about 10 dubs that are sub par like Tamako Market and Girls und Panzer or completely unbearably godawful tripe like Little Busters and Prisma Illya with casting choices that make you swear they were on drugs and voice acting that should be used as a legal method of torture. They've been around for quite some time now but notice all my examples were fairly recent dubs.

Every other active dubbing company is, on average, decent. They've all made bad dubs in the past but it's a clear minority compared to the good stuff they've made. But when it comes to Sentai I seem to find a lot more bad than good. And trust me, I've tried very hard to find the good.


I actually haven't heard any Sentai dubs (outside of short clips) aside from Angel Beats, which I remember being decent but nothing special. Are those dubs you mentioned really that bad?
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