Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Maria the Virgin Witch
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kgw
 Posts: 1069 Location: Spain, EU |
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From a religious point of view, Angels have no gender/sex, so I found nothing wrong on having a female VA for Angels.
While I've not seen the 2nd episode yet, I think it's a quite interesting serie. At least the battle was more "realistic" than the average movies. And I appreciate they leave Jeanne d'Arc out of the story (she's "overused", I think) Last edited by kgw on Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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zztop
Posts: 646 |
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It's the hallmark of Ishikawa Masayuki's writing; he enjoys mixing dirty jokes with factual knowledge. Moyashimon was structured roughly the same way. Maria also ran in an otaku-targeted seinen magazine, so that's probably how it got away with this odd combo. |
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ZiharkXVI
Posts: 360 |
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I'm withholding judgement. This is the kind of show that can be pretty good or really mediocre in a couple of episodes. The characters are interesting, backdrop unique, and I'm going to guess once this plot gets moving we'll be in good shape. Got to stop the rather mundane sex "humor" though. It's just not that funny and the show dragged through. Oh surprise, the one priest/lord is interested in young boys. What shenanigans is this? Pedophile who isn't so picky about gender offends the prude main character! I wonder how she is gonna react...what no I'm not. Haha, what is the succubus doing with her mouth? I guess I shouldn't be too shocked with a title that includes "virgin". It's just I find that angle a weakness that could weigh a good show down. That scenes with the incubus and his work and his appearance lasted entirely too long. Make the joke, move on. We'll see about this show, I'm tentatively hopeful that the excess padding is cut for the more important story and plot.
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Kadmos1
 Posts: 13564 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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Some sites that address angels having gender in the Bible (I don't know how credible they are): uhcg.org/HoI/Angels-Gender.html biblestudysite.com/answers19.htm ichthys.com/mail-female-angels.htm (though gotquestions.org/angels-male-female.html claims that the "female angels" claim is wrong) sodahead.com/united-states/what-does-the-bible-say-about-gender-of-angels/blog-20780 openbible.info/topics/archangel_angel_michael uses male pronouns to describe him and he's even called the "great prince". On the angel hierarchy, there's debate on whether archangels or seraphim on the top angel class. However, I find that archangels are highest since they mean "chief messenger" or something like in Greek. Another debate on the angel hierarchy is that it's common to use Christian, Jewish, and Islamic sources/traditions/folklores/stories that can contradict each other. The accuracy of using books that aren't not in the standard Jewish/Catholic/Christian Bibles (like the Book of Enoch) for angel/demon hierarchy is debatable. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18209 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Sorry, but there's nothing "mundane" (by anime standards) about the sex humor in this one. Within the first two episodes it's boldly gone places that you almost never see (non-hentai) anime go to, and I love it for that.
Sailor Tralfamadore: Are you absolutely sure that Family Guy has never done something like that? I don't watch it on a regular basis, but based on the occasional episodes that I do catch, the show has entirely ignored all other boundaries of good taste.
You actually think anime producers are pandering to anti-gay elements with that? I find it more likely that they're being thoughtless and/or uncaring. EDIT: Added qualifier in parenthesis to initial comment. Last edited by Key on Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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I would think it was thoughtless and/or uncaring if it was something that appeared here and there, sparingly. However, this kind of gay caricature is damn near omnipresent in Anime. It's even worse than the offensive "black" caricature that we see in some shows. I think that one is more thoughtless. I gave some examples of top Anime (recent) where it showed up, but you can add to that Hunter x Hunter and Tiger and Bunny. Even some slice of life shows like Tamako Market (although that one wasn't really offensive, but just a very common token drag queen). I do think there is something about it that the Japanese audience enjoys making fun of, on some level. That's why such characters are displayed in a manner which elicits fright from the "normal" people around them. The impression is that you aren't supposed to be seen associating with that person, and watching such people act in an outrageously lusty or flamboyant manner is funny. I don't think that is merely accidental on the part of the Anime producers. |
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Roxas4ever
 Posts: 152 |
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I really appreciate how the show is able to be sexual without being sexy (as pointed out in the review). Most anime (and American media) turn sex in to something really base and carnal, and it's nice to have a show that acknowledges those aspects of it (as seen when Artemis is pleasuring the soldiers) without glorifying them. Artemis and Maria's character designs were a turnoff for me initially, but it becomes apparent very early on in the first episode that, even when they are scantily clad, it never feels as though they are being offered up to the audience as fap-material. (Once again agreeing with the review writer) It's really refreshing how little male gaze exists in this series. I have high hopes for this show.
I do hope, though, that they don't spend too long demonizing the church. Was the church at the time full of corrupt figures? Of course. But it's a really overused cliche to make ALL of the church figures these horrible, heartless (and frequently super sinful) characters. I don't want this story to become a simple Maria vs. church/angels. I feel like there's so much this show could explore, as long as it doesn't settle for a tired main conflict. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18209 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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That interpretation sets a pretty low bar for qualifying as "pandering," but okay, whatever.
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ZiharkXVI
Posts: 360 |
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It boldly does nothing new in that regards - I literally rolled my eyes at the humor because it was so run of the mill. Anime standards? Really? You love it for that reason? The creepy adult male about to try and have sex with the rather naive boy/main character isn't new. Plus even if you think it is new, that doesn't excuse it falling flat. And boy it fell flat for me. Subjectively it does nothing for me when time is wasted highlighting a particular joke too long (sex or not, doesn't matter), and that's all it was. Objectively there really isnt anything very new about it. Lately I've been seeing a lot of high quality anime mix adult sex humor into the show. Sometimes that's all the show becomes. |
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Valhern
 Posts: 916 |
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I personally like the jokes because they're conveyed through dialogue, not just by showing some cliche scenes like a guy getting into the bathroom and the girl was changing and ecchi screams happen. When Artemis jokes like "My jaw's been hurting all day" or "A snake? What a sight that must have been!" I remember a lot of SYD and I love that.
If people don't like it that's fine, a lot of people don't like certain kind of jokes and humor. No big deal.
Hunter x Hunter? You mean by Hisoka? Are you serious? The guy clearly stared at the ass of 13 year old boys, so if the characters cringe and feel uncomfortable with that we should consider they're making fun of queer characterizacion? I don't know you, but if a scary-ass murderer clown looked at me that way I too would feel pretty uncomfortable, even more so if he gets turned on about how much am I "growing up". It is portrayed as a joke because otherwise it would be extremely creepy. Probably you also mean Pike, the spider chimera ant, and that is indeed a flaw, but for a character so irrelevant I don't know why even bother bringing him up. Or if you mean Shaiapouf, I don't think the author intended to make fun of his likely homosexuality, he just went JoJo level of drama, with the posing and all, the incoherence and exaggeration was supposed to be fun, or at least I suppose. Plus, Youpi does get a scene like that, too, and he is a completely different character from Pouf, almost the opposite. |
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Yttrbio
 Posts: 3653 |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18209 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Obviously I was referring to scenes other than that. You sound like you have an agenda here by specifically pointing to the one egregious example and ignoring everything else that the series did in the sexual humor vein.
I'm seconding Yttrbio's challenge on this. Name me recent examples of other "high quality anime" which have the nature of sexual humor in them that this one does (aside from the pedophile character). |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6529 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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One of the things that was a off-putting for me in the paedophile scene is that Priapus is about to be raped. Both Maria and, in particular, Artemis condone this, with Artemis finding it highly amusing. The implication being that for sex workers (which is what Priapus and Artermis are in effect) that is part of the job description. So, there is a rape joke mixed in with the gay stereotype.
Maria the Virgin Witch gets away with it because its tone has already been clearly defined enough that we know the rape won't happen. That still doesn't change what it is. Anyway, I too am enjoying this little gem for its endearing mixture of historical setting, appearance, sweetness and sophisticated (by anime standards) sex humour. |
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ZiharkXVI
Posts: 360 |
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Which ones? The ones that use it or the ones that end up focusing on it? Quite a few examples of decently animated shows that use it - and I might add, some that achieve a good rating from myself. (Maoyuu Maou, Gargantia, My Little Monster, Occult, Garo, Bahamut, the list goes on - remember, I never said extensively use, but it's in there at points, some rarer than others). Those are probably the more recent ones that I can remember - some older shows use it as well. I'll admit that this show is using the sex jokes more often than some shows, and not just occasionally sliding it in. If that's what was intended by the previous person's post, I must have misunderstood. The ones that end up focusing on the adult humor, and I should modify the phrase to be just adult humor in general because it's usually mixed in with a lot of black comedy, are shows like Muromi-san, Bokura wa minna-kawaisou, Mysterious Girlfriend X...there are a couple of others I can't remember right now. I usually dislike them, so I tend not to finish them (and in return, makes it difficult for me to come up with a name). There are not a lot of these that aren't just straight up ecchi fare. Key wrote: ZiharkXVI wrote: It boldly does nothing new in that regards - I literally rolled my eyes at the humor because it was so run of the mill. Anime standards? Really? You love it for that reason? The creepy adult male about to try and have sex with the rather naive boy/main character isn't new. Obviously I was referring to scenes other than that. You sound like you have an agenda here by specifically pointing to the one egregious example and ignoring everything else that the series did in the sexual humor vein. Quote: Lately I've been seeing a lot of high quality anime mix adult sex humor into the show. Sometimes that's all the show becomes. I'm seconding Yttrbio's challenge on this. Name me recent examples of other "high quality anime" which have the nature of sexual humor in them that this one does (aside from the pedophile character). I have nothing of the sort. You flat out dismissed my opinion as incorrect and I merely defended it. You're the one who's in love with a show just because of, if I understand you correctly, it's injecting sex jokes more openly into the show than anime? It was odd to me that's your reason for loving something, but different strokes. Don't get upset - just my opinion...same as my withholding judgment on the show. I think you are not actually understanding me very well. It's not the specific joke that bothers me. Its all of it combined. The first episode was actually, in my humble opinion, pretty good. But then the 2nd episode had us focusing on creating an incubus without a penis. And then more teasing about the main's sexual naivete (we get it). A scene of a monk that foiled the succubus. A scene of the incubus and the old guy. I believe it's intended for humor, but when I started watching this anime, I was actually more into the characters than the running gag of open sex against the naïve main. Again, probably my own fault of not taking the title seriously. If this ends up being more comedic than not, it may just not be my thing. If it dials back all of that as filler around the edges, I'm interested to see where this goes. No agenda. Just an honest opinion. Last edited by ZiharkXVI on Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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That's what bothered me the most, too. Artemis seemed happy to lock Priapus and Maria in a room with a man determined to have sex with them even as they protested against it. That's a rape joke, and it makes me more uncomfortable than anything else in the show. |
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