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Answerman - Are There Any Vegetarians In Japan?


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Sakagami Tomoyo



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 940
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:48 pm Reply with quote
An interesting insight. I'll admit vegetarianism is still a somewhat alien concept to me; I'm generally accepting of a more "I prefer not to eat meat, but if it's the only thing available I'll eat it" attitude, but a bit baffled by the almost religious zeal some have about meat not being eaten by them, or anyone or anything else.

RestLessone wrote:
The argument is less about living things and more about the concepts of pain and suffering. Plants lack brains and central nervous systems (as do certain animals, like sponges) and are not conscious, so do not experience pain nor suffering as we define it.


Or as far as we can tell, in any case. For all we know, plants could have some kind of consciousness that we don't have the means to detect or comprehend. For quite a while in human history we didn't think animals had as much in the way of consciousness as we now know they do, and we're likely still underestimating it.
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Hugh Mungus



Joined: 25 Aug 2016
Posts: 84
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:22 pm Reply with quote
Japan's not alone in the lack of vegetarianism, in France, less than a fraction of the population is vegetarian; however, like Japan, it's a culture thing, as the French way is seen as being able to indulge in what you love, just like how Japan, fish is a big part of the cuisine.

Hope everybody enjoyed the most educational run-off sentence I will ever write.
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Paiprince



Joined: 21 Dec 2013
Posts: 593
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:36 pm Reply with quote
H. Guderian wrote:
Interacting with enough Japanese things over time and the phrase "Food is Culture" comes to mind when seeing this. For a people of the sea, it is only to be expected there's so much fish around. My only problem arises when someone imposes their preference onto another culture that didn't ask for it, as was highlighted by others. You don't go to a tropical island to avoid the beach. You don't go to a family reunion to avoid the family. You don't go to Japan to avoid fish. I mean you can, but the question I would pose is at what point do you restrain your own preferences for the greater culture? We visit Japan to see how they do things over there, not to show off to the locals.


Sums up what I think about this, among many other cultural pet peeves that will get mentioned.
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Hiroki not Takuya



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Posts: 2515
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:03 pm Reply with quote
I think Shizuru of BBK/BRNK is veterian as she only eats "grass" which seems to be vegetables. A little surprised about Japan given the preponderance of tofu and there are a couple of companies producing very palatable faux-meat with processed tofu. But dashi I understand...
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Zumie



Joined: 22 Jun 2013
Posts: 51
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:09 pm Reply with quote
So, no "Soapboxing" on veganism- even though technically the answer kind of covered it in the article itself? Wait- so what is the point of even discussing it? Why did the article get published if people can't comment on the tenants of veganism/meat eating if we can't?? It seems more than a little hypocritical to me...
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maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 2863
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:15 pm Reply with quote
there are arguments on vegetarian efficiency, as let's say, cows can eat grass, which humans can't eat, so we get out protein form cows after they process the grass while other wise we would have to make the pastures into faring land killing 20 times more lifes than if we did the cow thing and also having a big impact regarding biodiversity; is not a simple topic as vegans or carnivores would like you to think.

Sakagami Tomoyo wrote:

For quite a while in human history we didn't think animals had as much in the way of consciousness as we now know they do, and we're likely still underestimating it.


dude, we lasted a while thinking other humans were not worht being considered humans.
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:34 pm Reply with quote
I would've thought vegetarian options would've been slightly more available, as quite a few shows have "not able to afford meat" as the mark of a poor character. But I guess they're referring to land-animal-based meat rather than fish.
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Fenrin



Joined: 19 Dec 2015
Posts: 695
Location: SoCal
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:38 pm Reply with quote
I don't get how there are commenters who "don't understand" vegans and vegetarians. What is there to understand? They don't eat meat and that's it, their reasoning should be irrelevent to accepting them as they aren't causing harm to anyone with their choice. As long as they aren't in your face about it let them be.

This makes me irritated as I'm reminded of ignorant people who give my sister a judgemental look when she orders a gluten-free pizza at Pieology 'for preference', when she has an actual gluten sensitivity.
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suikara



Joined: 25 Oct 2016
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:47 am Reply with quote
I'll be spending a month in Japan soon, so I've been doing some research. Actually, there is a growing vegan and animal rights movement in Japan.

Some examples that I've found:

https://www.vegansociety.com/whats-new/blog/vegan-japan
http://japanvegan.blogspot.com/
https://isitveganjapan.com/vegan-festivals-and-groups/

https://www.happycow.net/ is also useful for finding vegetarian, vegan, or veg-friendly restaurants in Japan.

Now, a couple of comments.

First, I have to say that it's a little disappointing that the author falls back on "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down" generalizations about Japanese society. Nonconformity is certainly valued in, fr'ex, punk rock and noise subculture.

From an interview with Merzbow (Japanese noise artist):

Quote:
I published a book called “Watashi no Saishokuseikatsu” (Cruelty Free Life) in 2005. It is about why I became a Vegan, my everyday life with animals, relationship with the animals and my work as a musician, basic background knowledge about Vegan and Animal Rights, recipes for Vegan dishes... (a)ll the arts I have done since I became a Vegan have to do with animals. In other words, my creative activities are a part of Vegan-Animal Rights activities as well.


Also, it's a bit of an overgeneralization to say that fish is a major part of all Japanese culture. The traditional Okinawan diet, even if not vegetarian, consists almost entirely of plant foods, with sweet potato and rice as the major staples, and meat/fish play a very small role. Western vegans who are interested in the health aspects of the diet often point to starch-based diets like the Okinawan for their role in promoting longevity.

And with fish populations at a critical low, (see http://www.onegreenplanet.org/animalsandnature/10-alarming-facts-about-overfishing/) as much as some may not want to hear it, large-scale fishing is a practice that we're better off without.

For this reason -- as well as fish being sentient creatures with their own interests -- it's worth a little inconvenience, rudeness, or risk of embarassment for vegetarians to avoid fish while in Japan.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:28 am Reply with quote
Exalted Incarnate wrote:
The whole concept of veganism is self contradictory in a way. Vegetarians say it's wrong to kill animals when there are other things to avaliabe eat, but it's ok to eat plants which are technically living things too and plants lacking traits people have isn't a good reason to justify eating them over animals. Humans can't directly consume inorganic material, people must consume other living things. But if it's just a preference that's another story, although not a healthy one.

The difference is not between living vs non-living. It's between what most vegetarians consider conscious/sentient or not (with some exceptions in different subsets) Or more precisely anything with central nervous system/brain vs not. Also you can be perfectly healthy and even very muscular as a vegetarian.

marvel knight wrote:
I assume the Indian restaurants can accommodate that.


I never went to an Indian restaurant when I visited Japan, but I'd assume so, considering the native vegetarian fair common in Indian food and culture.

Also, it's likely that the only real way to make other people understand vegetarian food that does not include fish is to simply say shojin ryori and similarly mention the equivalent terms for buddhist food anywhere in sino-Asia like China, Taiwan, etc would get the point across quicker. I do think it's easier to substitute meat for tofu or gluten (seitan) in other places like China, but you're still not guaranteed non-meat based ingredients like chicken broth or oyster sauce unless you go to a temple.
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Greboruri



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 378
Location: QBN, NSW, Australia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:05 am Reply with quote
A new vegetarian/vegan website listing restaurants and even products in convenience store products has recently began operation; https://vegewel.com/ Not as good as Tabelog which I often use when I go over there, but of course Tabelog doesn't give options for vegetarians vegans.
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jymmy



Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Posts: 1244
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:29 am Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:
So far as vegetarian anime character goes, the only one coming to mind is Rei Ayanami from Evangelion.

Plus the other of his characters Hideaki Anno famously wrote his vegetarianism into, Nadia from Nadia.
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Errinundra
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Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 6525
Location: Melbourne, Oz
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:33 am Reply with quote
Zumie wrote:
So, no "Soapboxing" on veganism- even though technically the answer kind of covered it in the article itself? Wait- so what is the point of even discussing it? Why did the article get published if people can't comment on the tenants of veganism/meat eating if we can't?? It seems more than a little hypocritical to me...


Disclosure: I've been vegetarian for 25 years.

By all means discuss the pros and cons of various diets but avoid being unnecessarily aggressive toward those who practice them. The post Psycho 101 deleted crossed the line.
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roxybudgy



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 129
Location: Western Australia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:46 am Reply with quote
I'll be visiting Japan with my mum and brother next year, and the challenge will be finding food for my brother. He's not vegetarian, but he doesn't like fish, seafood, seaweed, anything that came from the river or ocean. He doesn't have an allergy to that stuff, he just doesn't like the taste or smell of those foods.

I asked my brother how he was going to cope, and he says he'll just eat katsu all the time :p
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:15 am Reply with quote
Anyone have an explanation on France having an incredibly low vegetarian population? I'm not a vegetarian, but I knew someone who was and vacationed in France. When she was in Paris, she was forced to eat meat, and she said that the restaurant staff didn't understand what constituted vegetarian-friendliness. I later learned on Kitchen Nightmares that Paris has one of the lowest vegetarian populations in their world by percentage (2%, I believe), and as a result, there are almost no restaurants that serve vegetarians outside of desserts.

The reasons that apply to Japan (extreme dependency on the ocean for food, a cultural expectation to fit in with other people) don't apply to France, which is why it puzzles me.

Cutiebunny wrote:
There are many Japanese who consider themselves to be vegetarians even though they eat seafood. When I mentioned to a woman I had done business with for several years that, due to her fish consumption, she was a pescatarian, she became really upset. So there are some native Japanese people who do consider themselves to be vegetarians despite their regular consumption of fish.


Interesting. The very concept of being a vegetarian is different between Japan and the Anglosphere. I wonder if that means fish are seen as some sort of lower lifeform in Japan than terrestrial animals, or if it's just that the Japanese have lived off the sea for their diets for so long that it's hard to imagine not eating seafood.

The ones who travel inland to the United States must get uncomfortable with the thorough LACK of seafood and lack of popularity of seafood.

Blanchimont wrote:
Might be a reason we often see fruits of some kind as centerpieces in anime, apples, watermelons... How often do we see that in Western media, other than in passing?...


Well, we have Edible Arrangements, but I don't think that's the same thing.

poisondusk wrote:
In addition, while I refused any actual pieces of meat or fish, there were times when I had to eat things with animal-derived ingredients like fish sauce to avoid being rude or causing a fuss. I probably also ate plenty of things that weren't vegetarian without realising it. That's something that you just have to accept while being in Japan.


I'm guessing it's a related concept, but some Thai restaurant chefs will still serve something with fish sauce in it to people who request vegetarian meals. I had worked with someone who was a vegetarian and was served Pad Thai, which contains fish sauce. (Which is weird because vegetarianism is pretty mainstream in Thailand. I think it's more of a "They don't need to know" situation.)

RestLessone wrote:
The argument is less about living things and more about the concepts of pain and suffering. Plants lack brains and central nervous systems (as do certain animals, like sponges) and are not conscious, so do not experience pain nor suffering as we define it. The whole of their responses comes down to automatic, unconscious responses to stimuli.


There have been some recent discoveries of plants communicating with each other across species, however, via chemical signals dispersed into the air. The clearest one is a distress signal from a damaged plant that causes nearby plants' defensive systems to activate (if they have one). No one's really clear on if this is a sign of intelligence from plants, but the possibility is not zero. This concept was brought up in Through the Wormhole as an example of a communications system so alien to human comprehension that it went unnoticed by researchers for thousands of years.

Deriving any further conclusions from that will lead into Poison Ivy kind of thinking though.
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