Forum - View topicWhy do a lot of Gundam fans hate SEED Destiny?
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Westlo
 Posts: 1684 |
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Because they made Athrun and Cagalli forget any character development from the first season of SEED, they made Kira and Lacus (and I'm a fan of these two) way too perfect this season, mew just come back without a half assed explanition, a lot of the new cast was just horrible and were made to look like retards.
Stock footage and reused animations hit were massively used, the Strike Gundam made an appearance in the 10-19's, the impulse/saviour would use a freedom move over and over (which funnily enough got some shinn fanboys going wow that was awesome kira would never do that). The recap episodes were probably around the same amount as the first SEED but SEED from episode 29-50 had zero recaps, Destiny otoh had several recap episodes down the stretch which completely killed off the momentum of some fights/plots. Thanks to the scriptwriters incompetence we had to suffer 2 recap episodes in the last 10 episodes of the series. Horrible ending as well, the only thing Destiny improved upon was a much better musical score overall. I still think the last 20 episodes of SEED was the musical highpoint of the series (Mainly OST III) but from the get go Destiny had some great pieces. I really liked Shinn's/Destiny's theme late in the series. I seriously think someone who has never seen the series would be better off watching the 4 special edition movies instead of the 50 episodes tv series. |
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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At the very least, the movies won't have the recap episodes and won't waste as much of your time. It's unlikely they would fix any of the other problems and there are far, far too many problems (and big ones, and major plot elements) to really redeem it, but they would be a bit more more bearable.
A really don't feel like typing my issues with series again, especially when Nagisa has already got it covered. |
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Pepperidge
 Posts: 1104 Location: British Columbia, Canada |
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Criticizing Gundam SEED Destiny is a very tricky subject. Most people merely claim that the flaws are merely extensions of those in Gundam SEED, which is not the case. Gundam SEED was a fantastic series, whereas Destiny was a victim of its predecessor's popularity on a catastrophic level. Simply put, it was the fans who killed GSD dead in its tracks.
Just listen to Nagisa. He has it figured out. And to the person who started the thread: watch the whole series and you'll understand what's wrong with the series. |
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HitokiriShadow
Posts: 6251 |
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Gundam SEED wasn't perfect and had some problems, but Destiny magnifies those and adds in dozens more.
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ivorymoose
 Posts: 240 |
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I did not watch Seed, I watched Destiny and I loved it. The only problem was Cargalli and her ideology. I find her ideology unrealistic and her “side” actually won the war as the “good guys”. I have no respect for Athrun as a soldier because he does not know whose side he is on and keeps asking stupid questions like why he is fighting. A soldier who asked such questions won't be able to identify the enemy, it is unacceptable for a military man to behave in this way. I have more respect for Shinn because he stayed loyal to his call as a soldier till the end. Shinn never defected. As long as Athrun is with Cargalli, he will not be the warrior he is meant to be. I am unhappy with the ending because the “Good guys” are explicitly, publicly promoted and rewarded for their efforts. I have more respect for humble, simple, quiet endings where the good guy/s did their job excellently without material rewards. I hope this Destiny type ending won’t happen again in Gundam 00. It’s too simplistic, no casualties or injuries.
I won't compare Seed and Destiny to MS Gundam, MS 08th Team, 0083, 0080, Zeta and CCA. I miss Char Aznable. At this point, I don’t see a character in Destiny that could possibly come close to match Char’s cult status. Destiny lacks a creditable enemy. |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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True. Also though, I think the problems in SEED were relatively isolated. You could get past the fact that all the character designs were very similar, or when there was a recap episode, suffer through it and then continue with the story afterwards, or even with reused animation. As for Destiny, Like Nagisa said, "it's just a plain, bad show". The problems were much more engrained into the actual characters, plot, etc. and those kinds of problems are alot tougher to get over. SEED was fairly good but with flaws. If you could get past those flaws, its pretty enjoyable. Destiny was just a flat out bad show. Not to mention it retained the flaws in SEED, making it both flawed and just plain bad. |
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mistress_reebi
Posts: 735 Location: Canada |
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Athrun pretty much forgot what he learned in Seed, which is the real why he asks so many questions. I guess the creators realised that too many people died in Seed that they wanted the ending in Desitiny to be a Hallmark moment. If you watch Seed you will learn to appreciate the "good guys" (Orb) since they were the theme/message in Seed. EDIT: in Seed/Destiny it was great how there were no bad/good guys (well there was one bad guy in both) because it's supposed to show how in war both sides are fighting for the same ideals. That's why Seed is way better because it has a strong message about war. |
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nightmaregenie
 Posts: 167 Location: Palmy, NZ - student central |
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This is what I wrote in another thread regarding Destiny...
Aside from unrealistic/undeveloped characters, which are obvioulsy created as fangirl/fanboy-pleasers, the story itself is one huge mess. It started off well with emphasis on the prejudices still upheld by many people, the legacy of Seed, which presents many difficult challenges to our main protagonists. But after a while that idea got tossed aside in favour of bad character drama and personal tragedies and the sudden introduction of the so-called "Destiny Plan" in the last two/three episodes just makes it all the more confusing. The exact nature and method of that scheme was never explained and the naivete of it pretty much cuts off any resemblance to reality. The plan just looks like something the production crew decided to put in at the last minute in order to provide a convenient conclusion to the series. Yeah, I think Gundam Seed is pretty decent but Seed Destiny is just a crappy sequel that's too far removed from its original to be likable. |
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Souppy
 Posts: 18 |
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I stopped watching GSD. I enjoyed SEED more than I thought I would but the Destiny part was just... well, not my type let's say. The way SEED ended, I never thought they would do a sequel because there was no ''open door'' to do one. They had to bring new characters to support the story and they used the old ones in wrong ways. For example, Athrun stood up to his father and accepted to be a prisonner for the Orb's ideal in SEED and he forgets about that in Destiny... weird. Cagali had more guts in the first one and now, she lost that intensity somehow. Lacus and Kira are O.K. in my mind because they don't change but they did mistakes in SEED and they doubted at a point or another... different than Destiny. And they couldn't create a new character to be the main ennemy... the masked one again... lol.
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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This is another good point. SEED was not set up to have a direct sequel. Forcing one where it really didn't work put Destiny at a disadvantage from the start.
Plus, because the characters had already developed to the extend they did in SEED, for them to return in a major role they had to either: a) forget everything they learned in SEED. ie. Athrun and Cagalli b) have a Jesus complex ie. Kira and Lacus |
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Westlo
Posts: 1684 |
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That's right, Kira was suppose to die in SEED 50 but due to his massive popularity in japan which continues to this day the director changed his mind. IIRC the main reason they green lighted a SEED sequel were the stunning dvd sales (as opposed to avg/poor model kit sales) it had, avg 50-60k when 10k is considered a success made a sequel a no brainer.
Unfortunately to make a sequel they had to like ikillchicken said change the existing characters for the worse and shoehorn some bullcrap into the plot like Cagalli having a betrothed even though she run around trying to hump Kira for 20-30 episodes. Cagalli was my fav character from the original SEED but she lost her backbone/spunkiness in the sequel. Athrun just equaled the hand on head ascii art, Kira/Lacus were perfect, Mwu had no explanation for being back, Gilbert/Rey/Logos/druggies were not as good as their first season counterparts and the new characters just sucked especially Shinn. For a sequel (which looking at Destiny dvd sales is a matter of when not if) Lacus has to be end up being the SEED version of Supreme Chancellor Palpatine (sp) from Star Wars. |
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HitokiriShadow
Posts: 6251 |
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War's don't tend to end easily. Patrick Zala was gone, but the enmity between Naturals and Coordinators didn't die with him by any means. There were plenty of directions they could have gone and they even got off to a decent start. Remember that the original Gundam wasn't created with a sequel in mind either. Plenty of other shows have been created to be a one season/series show and manage to have good sequels. So I don't think GSD really had a 'disadvantage' at all. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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well sure from a superficial plot related perspective there was room for continuation. However in terms of the characters, and their devlopment, as well as just the general ideas and themes, it had been pretty much completed.
This means, like I said already for the characters to return they needed to entirely forget what they had learned in SEED, or come back as totally uninteresting, characters with no further room for development. This meant they would have had to come up with mostly entirely new characters. (which they tried and failed at) Not only that though, they would have had to come up with new themes and ideas to center around or otherwise it would just be a rehashing of SEED. Maybe in the type of show where the themes and ideas are just concepts presented continuously throughout that would be fine, but because of the way this stuff developed as SEED progressed, this is really pretty weak if repeated. |
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HitokiriShadow
Posts: 6251 |
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Using new characters shouldn't be a problem. And it would have been possible to continue to grow characters like Athrun and Cagalli, Destiny just handled them terribly. Heck, it should have been possible to do something good with Kira and Lacus as well, at least as minor characters.
None of those things would have been impossible or even particularly difficult to do. GSD just failed hard at it, like it did on just about every level. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Saying that doesnt make it true. Coming up with new characters is possible, but its alot harder than just continuing with the already good and successful characters you have. Infact Id say its even harder than coming up with characters in a brand new show, because then youve got a blank slate. |
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