Forum - View topicWhy are some anime hits and others "under the radar?
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Cyan Bloodbane
 Posts: 117 |
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Just wanted to comment on your name/avatarKey, mostly because that's still my favorite series of all time.
Heh, got the Old Issue of Animerica Magazine with Key on the cover in a frame over my computer. Key the Metal Idol was under the radar, even for it's time. Proud to say I am one of Key's 30,000 friends. : ) |
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An1fr3ak
 Posts: 235 Location: Australia |
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Okay, some people will probably say i'm part of the new generation of anime fans becasue while I have been watching anime since I was three and i'm now turning twenty, I only started to get serious about anime at the age of sixteen. This 'new age trash' that you refer to such as Bleach, and i'm sure Naruto as well, are both in my top ten anime, NARUTO being my favourite anime. But on the other hand, i'm all for the classic anime as well. This includes the cult-like following of the Gundam series, the classic Phoenix series, the Macross series, Akira, Street Fighter, Tekken, Captain Harlock series and so on. While i'm not big on Mecha series at all, I thoroughly enjoy Gundam in small doses and I own four of the series titles with more to be purchased at my own convenience. So i pose you this question: can you really say all that, when fans like myself, who may scream their love for 'crap like Naruto and Bleach' but are actually quite varied in their viewing. Without knowing the poulace 100%, you can't really be that judgemental.... In any case, as someone mentioned before, it is all word of mouth. If no one around you knows about good anime that are 'under the radar,' then how can you possibly find out if you aren't a die hard fan of anime, the likes of which congregate on sites like this!! People will stick to what they hear about and what is suggested to them. No more, no less. We are creatures of habit and comfort zones, and unless we are told otherwise, it will stay that way(Generally speaking). One of my friends is excactly like what I have just mentioned when it comes to anime. Sometimes I even need to go to his place and force him to continue some series because he gets to lazy to do it himself. This just happened with Trigun, a classic series which he started in about July/August last year and just finished last month. |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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I'm currently making my way through Key myself. Just when I think the way the series is cut is starting to losing its appeal, a brief sequence of imagary comes along and gives the viewer something to ponder over. I'm worried about watching the ending though- I've heard many people have criticised the show for it. Considering how hard it was for me to track down the DVDs, I can understand why it's not exactly the most popular licenced series. |
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Cyan Bloodbane
Posts: 117 |
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You are in fact, probably in the minority of newer fans, and therefore not the problem. Everyone always poses these 'Well you can't know everything 100% so it must mean you're way off". I don't understand why people don't understand that majority > minority in terms of opinion unfortunately. Sure, I may see things through rose tinted goggles, but I know how to take them off and watch a new show. Most newer fans rech at the sight of something slightly old. Anime has turned from art appreciation and a great sub culture to basically the same mass-produced flash over substance medium that American and most western media has always been. Last I checked, most older fans got into anime to get away from all of that, and now it's taken root in our own favored medium. That isn't to say there isn't new shows that are really good. It's more along the lines that the newer generation of fans is half-way brain dead. Like I said, you're not part of the problem. Heck, most of us were really into DBZ as a gateway anime the same way you're really into Naruto (which is basically just the new DBZ) I'm glad to see that some of the newer fans are becoming real fans. My last trip to Anime Expo showed me that the entire fandom had almost become cancer filled.
I'll admit, the last episode/movie was sort of a brain bender in a ways, and perhaps divulged "too much" by taking away all the mysteries of the series in one fell swoop. Despite that, the series ended very well, and it is the most memorable series I've personally ever watched. It's simply a hauntingly beautiful series. And yes, the DVD's are going to become harder to find. Not sure if it's in print anymore. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18191 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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This is one of the few things in this thread that I agree with Cyan Bloodbane about. Though a bit bizarre, the ending is nevertheless wonderfully staged and exactly true to the rest of the series. The complaints you've heard about are probably mostly directed at the movie-length episode 14 (of 15), which is essentially one big - but IMO necessary - info dump and can get a bit tedious. The final episode does not have that problem, however; in fact, I'd rate it amongst the best final episodes I've seen. And you really have to pay attention to that imagery, BTW; any time Key's appearance seems to change, if only very briefly, it's very important.
Again, I think the issue here is perspective. Far more anime is being churned out over the past few years than ever before, and more is making it beyond Japanese borders than ever before (credit/blame digital fansubs), so it's only natural that we're going to see more trashy productions. Previously only the elite series got significant exposure in the U.S.; now only the more obscure titles don't. But really, hasn't that "mass-produced flash over substance" always been around? Again, I point to Gatchaman (which spawned a horde of long-running imitators), but there's also series like Fist of the North Star and the first two Dragonball series to consider - and those are just the titles that immediately jump to mind. |
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animeboy12
Posts: 160 |
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As much as people want to point the finger at mordern anime fans, I wonder who's really at fault western or Japanese fans considering companies make most of their profits from the Japanese market.
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farichada
 Posts: 303 Location: Wisconsin, USA |
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Key brings up good points. Perspective is the biggest factor. What is a hit and what is mainstream is still very subjective. There are a few titles that are undeniably big hits, but where do you draw hit? When does a title crossover into being considered a big hit? Is there a certain number or statistic? I think not. I still have peers that argue Clannad and Kanon are non-mainstream because they are niche even though they are most site's top 100. Then again is top 100 considered big hits or only 10? Can a title become a big hit even if doesn't have as many fans as a series that's not a big hit? Series that revolutionize such as though low quality have been hailed as hits such as Saint Saiya.
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eyeresist
 Posts: 995 Location: a 320x240 resolution igloo (Sydney) |
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My first response to the OP's question was "because people are idiots!" But that's not really a fair response
Most people want to watch what other people are watching, and it doesn't really matter how good it is, as long as it's not terrible. Also, media exposure and hype play a bigger part in it than we'd like to admit. The thing that really bothers me is that some people absorb a lot of average quality anime over their first few years of fandom, and develop low standards because of this (Slayers, I'm looking at you). People also seem to have trouble analysing what they like or don't like about a show: they'll decide they hate a series because the character art is unusual, or they love a series because it has a catchy OP. Subtle but important things like story pacing and drawing quality aren't really understood by most viewers. The poetic qualities of stillness and allusion are usually overlooked. I'm getting a bit depressed now.
Logically the answer is "no". |
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BunnyCupCakes
 Posts: 224 Location: The Sunshine State |
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I agree with most of this. There's alot of newbies in the anime fandom so anything could look good to them. Some of them explore out of the stereotypical anime series, some...don't ever. Most people just go with the flow, like following a fad. I can name a hand-full of series that would make great hits ( or thought would be ) but in the end, they're heavily underrated sadly. Ex: Baccano! Michiko to Hatchin, Ergo Proxy, Gankutsuou....etc. I'm not asking those shows to become mainstream but I feel like they didn't get the love that they deserved enough :[ |
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animeboy12
Posts: 160 |
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Personally I think the fact that these shows are niche make them more special to me. Personally though it I think it depends what shows a new anime fan gets into, a studio ghibli film or a naruto.
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7983 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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One thing I should point out is some people simply aren't interested in critiqing and simply more interested in enjoying themselves and can't do both at once. It doesn't neccessarily mean they don't notice those little things or that they don't matter but when you're too narrowly focused you sometimes miss the bigger picture. This sort of situation is where the old phrase "can't see the forrest for the trees" comes from. I personally wouldn't fault people at all for doing this (rating the series on what it meant to them). For me though, the type of series and it's level of depth determines the "mode" or focus at which I should watch a series or analyze the events or characters and it's something I do automatically. I can "feel" and not "think" or "think" and not "feel" or do both at once. I'm not sure if that'll make any sense to anyone else but me, but there it is nonetheless. 
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belindabird
 Subscriber Posts: 134 Location: Minneapolis |
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I think just like any other medium, there are genres that appeal to a mass audience and some that appeal to a more niche audience. I mean, there are always going to be summer movie blockbusters that are based around special effects, explosions, and that sort of thing, and then there are dramas and art films that appeal to a smaller audience.
I guess the "why" has to do with the reason certain things appeal to certain people. There will always be a wider audience for things that provide more straightforward entertainment and that don't ask people to travel too far outside of their comfort zone. Popular anime series like Bleach and Naruto are successful because they provide entertainment which is full of action, some comedy, and provides attainable goals for their characters to work towards. The subject matter is a bit fantastic , but not so bizarre as to be outside most people's realm of imagination. Things like, say, Kaiba, are less popular because, while they contain some action elements as well as some elements of humor, the basis of the story is more about character drama and it is presented in a way that isn't as straightforward and requires a lot of thought on the part of the viewer to piece together what is going on. In Kaiba's case as well, the character designs are very unusual, and I have even seen people accuse the animation of being "bad", even though I would deem it very good - it's a matter of being turned away by non-standard anime character designs. It doesn't bother me so much that certain things are more popular than others, but what bothers me is that I have so much trouble convincing people that certain shows are worth at least checking out due to bizarre visuals or other superficial reasons (the previous mention of Akagi and Kaiji really hit home for me). |
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An1fr3ak
Posts: 235 Location: Australia |
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I never said that you were 'way off'(usually most idiots are though), but now that you explain your context of majority > minority(which most people never do), I understand your argument better, therefore I will not refute your statement, but rather agree with it 100% now. I would have to agree that the new generation is half-way brain dead, as is the norm with most new-gen fans!! I've got friends exactly like what you have mentioned before, and I quite literally get into fist-fights because of how ignorant they are of anime and the bad name they give to anime fans. I'll input more into the "under the radar' anime topic as well now  Basically, someone like me, doesn't do things in a half-arsed way when it comes to their passions(in this case anime). I research as much as possible, discover what titles I might find interesting, then try to get further feedback from people who might have watched the anime if I haven't already determined whether I want the anime or not yet. I'm not sure how many people would actually spend several hours a week researching anime, but I find that it helps me emmensely.
One of the anime 'shops' that I go to(my main one), run by someone who has been an anime fan since the sixties, actually comes to a few people like me when he needs to identify anime or when people need suggestions on anime. I'm in what the guy calls his 'family' of customers, and when i'm in the shop, i'm making the sales while he laughs all the way to the bank. This kind of information 'build up' has enabled me to learn about a lot of 'under the radar' anime, while at the same time, quite literally becoming a wealth of information myself, to the point where people don't go past my suggestions. While I still haven't watched that many anime, I can quite easier identify hundreds of anime on the spot. So the key point i'm trying to make is, that proper research goes a long way, if you are dedicated enough, just like word of mouth(that I mentioned in a previous post and have indirectly re-indicated in this post). P.S. - None of the above was self-glorification or bragging, I just wanted to more fully explain my point of view by using myself as an example. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who do a lot more then what I just discussed when it comes to anime. I say this, because for some reason, people have been assuming what they want from my comments, then accuse me of this and that. I've been the victim of many stupid misunderstandings or stupid people since I join this forum! |
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