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EP. REVIEW: Tokyo Revengers


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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 3:53 am Reply with quote
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Then there are smaller things, like the father fixating on his daughter being “disfigured” as if her appearance is the most pressing aspect of what's happened.

Everything else aside, this is just an unfortunate translation choice. The father is referring to the overall condition of his daughter, not just her appearance, but given that the signs of physical brutality are obvious, that she's in a coma and who knows if she'll ever regain consciousness, and so on, it's not like he can comment on anything in particular other than what he sees. He basically says "look at the state she's in!" or "she'll never be the same!" He even leads in with "this sweet, gentle girl..." so it's not like all he cares about is her appearance.

And as for her being unnamed/etc, on the one hand sure, it's the hurting-women-to-motivate-men cliché yet again. But on the other hand, more attention on her would just derail the point the story was trying to make, that this is but one tragedy, the sort that all gang violence leads to and may lead to in the future, and that Mikey should be aware of the potential human cost of his decisions.
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yeehaw



Joined: 09 Sep 2018
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 12:52 pm Reply with quote
SHD wrote:
Quote:
Then there are smaller things, like the father fixating on his daughter being “disfigured” as if her appearance is the most pressing aspect of what's happened.

Everything else aside, this is just an unfortunate translation choice. The father is referring to the overall condition of his daughter, not just her appearance, but given that the signs of physical brutality are obvious, that she's in a coma and who knows if she'll ever regain consciousness, and so on, it's not like he can comment on anything in particular other than what he sees. He basically says "look at the state she's in!" or "she'll never be the same!" He even leads in with "this sweet, gentle girl..." so it's not like all he cares about is her appearance.


No there was def some "now she's damaged goods"-feel in the original japanese too.

Regarding the censoring, when the white haired guy tells Takemichi about the guy and his girlfriend and Moebius, it looks like they just picked the color of the jacket and covered the manji with a lil smudge and it's barely notable. Why didn't they just do that instead of awkward zooms and a weird still of stairs leading to a temple?
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Agent355



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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 9:10 pm Reply with quote
Thank you, Nicholas Dupree, for calling out the “women in refrigerators” trope (female characters attacked or killed solely to motivate male characters). It’s one of my least favorite genre fiction tropes, and I’m sick of it! (Don’t get me started on how the Marvel Avengers movies essentially created a “woman in refrigerators” McGuffin and used it, *twice*! Mad)

I’ve been worried since the beginning about how Hina’s murder being motivation for Takemichi and Naoto would be handled. I want Hina to have agency and be more than just a girl/young woman who needs to be protected. I was disappointed that they finally addressed whether to tell Hina about her fate outright, only for Naoto to dismiss the notion entirely. His reasoning isn’t sound—after all, since his past self believes Takemichi, Takemichi can work with Past Naoto to convince Hina. And Takemichi (and the audience) knows that Hina already suspects that Takemichi has “adult” moments, she’s not completely oblivious that something is up. If it’s a huge plot issue, I hope the story comes up with another reason that she be kept in the dark—or that she finds out the truth. It affects her so directly; she deserves to know.

I completely agree that the gang rape victim in episode 5 was also in, or close to, “refrigerators” territory. Even when the victim is visited in the hospital, she doesn’t get a name or a voice; her father speaks for her. Did she have to be in a coma? Her physical condition was used to emphasize the crime, but so was the affect the incident had on *her boyfriend* and *her father*—if she had been able to speak for herself in that scene, it would have been more impactful.

And, in another plot contrivance, the adult-in-a-kid’s body who is working with a police officer doesn’t think about tipping off the cops. I understand why the Tokyo Manji gang members would think their only option is to fight Moebius head on; they’d never consider snitching and they think this incident is “their problem” to solve. But Takemichi should at least consider it (and there could be plenty of good in-story reasons why it wouldn’t work—Takemichi doesn’t have enough details to give a meaningful tip; the cops in this time period could be corrupt or indifferent...)

Re: Censorship: I’m wondering what, if any, symbolism or religious significance the author wanted to bring to the story by prominently using manji. But I wish that the anime adaptation had changed the symbol to an “X”, at least for the international version. It’s not ideal in terms of artistic integrity, but it would be so much better than awkward light beams, and still frames. I’m too lazy to look for the uncensored version and will just look up screen shots on Twitter that we’re missing from the censored version.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 4:15 am Reply with quote
yeehaw wrote:
No there was def some "now she's damaged goods"-feel in the original japanese too.

Sure, if you insist on the worst possible bad faith interpretation. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ What he says is "こんな変わり果てた姿で", which, even literally, means "in such a completely changed state". This phrase when applied to a person tends to be used in a "shadow of their former self" meaning, or even basically "dead". Considering the context here I think it's pretty obvious that he means "this girl, once so beautiful and sweet, will never be the same again" which I think is a completely valid statement in such a situation, and there's no reason to try and interpret it as some kind of comment on how she's not pretty anymore so she's worthless or whatever.
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a_Bear_in_Bearcave
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 6:23 pm Reply with quote
SHD wrote:
yeehaw wrote:
No there was def some "now she's damaged goods"-feel in the original japanese too.

Sure, if you insist on the worst possible bad faith interpretation. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ What he says is "こんな変わり果てた姿で", which, even literally, means "in such a completely changed state". This phrase when applied to a person tends to be used in a "shadow of their former self" meaning, or even basically "dead". Considering the context here I think it's pretty obvious that he means "this girl, once so beautiful and sweet, will never be the same again" which I think is a completely valid statement in such a situation, and there's no reason to try and interpret it as some kind of comment on how she's not pretty anymore so she's worthless or whatever.

I don't know Japanese, but I had similar understanding that the English translation must have botched a bit the meaning, considering that in manga description she had broken ribs and detached retina(!), she may have ended up permanently disabled, so I got it more as some version of "they destroyed my daughters body". They should word it better.
I wish they had better translation of the "hung up parents and siblings" - apparently it means they robbed them and then tied to lampposts in delinquent gang custom according to Someone From Internet, but I wouldn't get it without reading comments.
While I think it's better that they concentrated on girlfriend's body harm rather then the rape part, I do agree with the criticism where only the men are the ones voicing their anger, while she doesn't even get a name. Otherwise I liked the scene with Draken being the understanding one and even forcing Mikey to bow.

As for Manji symbol issue, I am becoming more and more certain that the West should just get educated about it, as I notice how widespread it still is in Japan and other Asian countries, and how important it is in history/culture.
So mostly white people in the West can't be bothered to learn other cultures' millennia-old symbol's meaning over one stolen from Asia in 20th century by bunch of white genocidal racists? That seems to me pretty much like racist cultural imperialism. Someone compared it to censoring crosses because KKK used burning crosses as their symbols - imagine reaction to that. Germany tried to ban swastikas it in EU once, and dropped the issue after Hindu protests, so it's not just Japan/anime issue, but ongoing one concerning many cultures and minorities even in the West.

Instead of censoring or swapping signs, they could just add some short intro before OP, and to ensure nobody can see screenshot and rise hell, show text on top every time manji is visible about it being religious/cultural symbol not related to Nazis.
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Noodles as we know it



Joined: 12 May 2021
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 10:17 pm Reply with quote
I feel like the discussion at the end of this article is poorly-posed. It puts a stain on an otherwise good article, the same way the article says this episode of the anime supposedly does.

It makes things political. And it uses western 2021 values to judge a show that took place in Japan back in the 20th centuary.

Also I don't think there is anything wrong with using people's suffering as the motivation for the characters in a show, as long as it is done well, that is to say, done in a way that makes the story believeable. There is no need to bring wokeness into this and make yourself seem morally superior for saying that a girl is raped in the show therefore the show is unenlightened.

Also in a Japanese family at that time, it is totally congruent for the father to speak more than the mother in a typical family. It is not the show's fault for reflect reality. If you dislike that, maybe you can try criticizing Japan's value. But the show did nothing wrong there
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CrowLia



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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 4:29 am Reply with quote
Noodles as we know it wrote:

It makes things political. And it uses western 2021 values to judge a show that took place in Japan back in the 20th centuary.



Uhm. The first 2 minutes of episode 1 very clearly state that Takemichi went back in time to the year 2005. Gonna ignore the rest of your post since it's obviously bait, but at least get your facts straight.
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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 1:30 am Reply with quote
a_Bear_in_Bearcave wrote:

I wish they had better translation of the "hung up parents and siblings" - apparently it means they robbed them and then tied to lampposts in delinquent gang custom according to Someone From Internet, but I wouldn't get it without reading comments.


I'm a few episodes behind and just now catching up (still have 6 & 7 to go), but thanks for clearing that up. I thought they were literally hung and killed.
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Gina Szanboti



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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 8:00 pm Reply with quote
This kinda reminded me of FMA: Brotherhood, in the way that series kept killing any sort of emotional buildup with an SD freakout or some other intrusive, ill-timed comedic spasm. It did get over that, but it felt like some editor somewhere was religiously insisting on obeying the manga commandment "Thou shalt not permit darkness to reign for more than six panels without calling upon the light of comedy." I guess they don't trust their audience to not get depressed and quit reading.

The last comedy bit just made no sense, since they were outside the whole time. Like why would he keep all these treasures (except the bike) outdoors? Sure, comedy from exaggeration or ridiculous premises is normal, but they way overdid it when it was out of place to begin with. I would've been ok with the humor if they'd just focused on the drama of the fight, and had one of them destroy only the bike so Takemichi could get absurdly pissed and step up.
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blahmoomoo



Joined: 27 Jan 2020
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 9:31 pm Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
The last comedy bit just made no sense, since they were outside the whole time. Like why would he keep all these treasures (except the bike) outdoors? Sure, comedy from exaggeration or ridiculous premises is normal, but they way overdid it when it was out of place to begin with. I would've been ok with the humor if they'd just focused on the drama of the fight, and had one of them destroy only the bike so Takemichi could get absurdly pissed and step up.


This appears to be one of those adaptation problems where the manga has one panel showing things thrown around (after the bike and bat) and three word bubbles on top, and as a result the anime needs to spend more time on the visuals for the dialog to play out. In that panel, the only items out of place are a monitor and guitar, though at least the monitor could be justified as e-waste that tends to end up siting outside. The other items include a float ring, a skateboard, a yo-yo, a golf club, a kendama, a tennis racket, and a few balls. Granted, the adaptation could have chosen more sensible things (like, why a Game Boy), but I can kind of see why it ended up goofier in the anime (though it was still silly in the manga).
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Covnam



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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 1:53 am Reply with quote
That tattoo artist was certainly something. "Tatted in the fifth grade, you're going to grow up rotten" Like he was just some bystander or something Rolling Eyes

Quote:
then really get the answer when Peh straight up stabs him.


I believe it was Pah. Peh was the taller, skinnier guy.
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a_Bear_in_Bearcave
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 12:45 pm Reply with quote
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That would be a literal crime in the US, where tattoos are treated as pretty commonplace, let alone in Japan where visible tats are way more controversial

I would have thought that tatoos being related to gangs would be more of a reason for tattoo guy to not care much laws, if we assume he's the kind that is used to decorating gangsters as his clientele. It's like those mafia doctors that are used to patching people up and not ask why they have gun/stab wounds, or like moonshine makers not respecting underage drinking laws.
Plus, the tattoo was sick-ass and he probably knew Draken knows what he wants, so I don't see it as a such big issue.
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SHD



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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 5:03 pm Reply with quote
a_Bear_in_Bearcave wrote:
Quote:
That would be a literal crime in the US, where tattoos are treated as pretty commonplace, let alone in Japan where visible tats are way more controversial

I would have thought that tatoos being related to gangs would be more of a reason for tattoo guy to not care much laws, if we assume he's the kind that is used to decorating gangsters as his clientele. It's like those mafia doctors that are used to patching people up and not ask why they have gun/stab wounds, or like moonshine makers not respecting underage drinking laws.
Plus, the tattoo was sick-ass and he probably knew Draken knows what he wants, so I don't see it as a such big issue.

Yes, I also don't quite get why people are surprised. Considering Doraken's circumstances, it's not like he went to some upstanding tattoo artist with impeccable morals and whatnot, but rather some underground/barely legal shop that mainly deals with yakuza, street thugs and whatnot. So what if it's just a kid, it's not his kid so what does he care. And a kid with this background is going to become a gang member sooner or later anyway, so it's not like a tattoo would ruin his chances for an amazing career at some office job or something.
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ab2143



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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 5:25 pm Reply with quote
Find it hard to believe Mikey and Takuya AREN'T related. They have similar features....
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Covnam



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:17 pm Reply with quote
Watching the ending this week a thought occurred as they kept focusing on that necklace. Hina mentioned to Takemichi that she noticed the suddent change in personalities, so I wonder if Takemichi will give it to Hina and use that as a sign to differentiate between his past and future selves. "Don't tell anyone who gave this to you, even me. If I know who gave it to you, then you'll know it's me" or something like that...
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