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Granted, Japan isn't a major tourist target (they rank #101 in the world for tourism per capita), but they still see considerably more tourists per capita than China.

Great, but however you look at it, Japan does not profit from tourism as near as the US does, right? So that means, you can use any statistic you want, but tourism in Japan is nothing to really give much thought about.

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As demonstrated by the figures above, it has quite a bit to do with the economy. Not only that, it is naïve to think that shutting one's borders to tourists could be done without economic repercussions not related to the tourist industry.

OK, so you say it would be a bad idea. Well than tell me, what would hapen?

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But the bottom line is that it would be wrong, not from economic reasons, but because any nation doing so would expose itself to the world as a barbarous, uncivilized nation.

>>>SO?<<<

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I can't find a source to support these crime rate figures, and you do not mention whether theseare percentages of reported crimes in total, or whether they are relative to the number of each ethnicity.

Click me!

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However, I question the reliability of the statistics, because I know how the Japanese justice system works. If the system were unbiased, the statistics would be meaningful --- but it isn't, and they are not.

Now you do know that you cant just doubt things that you don't like just like that.

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I think this is the most brilliantly absurd piece of rabid xenophobic nonsense I've ever seen.

"The Yakuza are the people who are there to do crime!"

So it's all right to be criminals, if one belongs to the proper group of Japanese, whose place in society is to be criminal? And this sort of crime doesn't count (and, one would presume, probably isn't reported accurately in the "official" statistics), because it is socially accepted -- whereas a foreigner in Japan is automatically suspect.

You clearly didn't understand what I said. I didn't say that it is right for Yakuza to commit crimes. But they are there to commit crime. Just because people don't want them to do so, they will still do it. You get it now?

When foreigners come to Japan, they are not a part of any mafia. They are normal people Just like the ordinary Japanese. Yet both of them, sometimes commit crime.

But since none of the foreigners who commit crime is mafia related than it just shows that they who commit crime are bad people.

Just as if an ordinary Japanese person who would commit crime would be a bad person.

But since we know that there is more organised crime in japan than ordinary people commiting crimes, that showes that ordinary Japanese commit less crime than foreigners do.

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As already demonstrated, you are wrong. Granted, tourism is not a major industry, yet, but it is one of the growing aspects of the service sector, even in times of recession. That's not a negligible economic factor.

Excuse me, but nothing was demonstrated. And the tourism in Japan is SO SMALL thiat it is negligible.

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So if someone accuses me of having a predilection for theft, I should go rob a bank to prove them right?

Might as well, eh? "If you're going to have the name, might as well have the game."

This isn't about proving someone right. it is about doing what is right, without thinking about what others will think about you. Which ofcourse is meaningless.

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No, not all of us in this forum live in the US, but never mind - I see the point you were trying to make.

I know, but the guy who I was talking to does live in the US.

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"So if George Bush thinks it's okay to treat other countries like his own personal property, and the world rightly points out that this isn't really nice.... you think it's okay for Japan to kick all foreigners out?"

You do understand that INVADING ANOTHER COUNTRY and KILLING THEIR PEOPLE is not the same as REMOVING CRIMINALS FROM YOUR COUNTRY TO PROTECT YOUR PEOPLE?

hrtrunks wrote:

Quote:

Granted, Japan isn't a major tourist target (they rank #101 in the world for tourism per capita), but they still see considerably more tourists per capita than China.

Great, but however you look at it, Japan does not profit from tourism as near as the US does, right? So that means, you can use any statistic you want, but tourism in Japan is nothing to really give much thought about.

Obviously, you don't think so. But the fact that it is a small industry is not the same as saying it is a negligible idustry -- nor does something become negligible just because others have more. If that were the case, I wouldn't bother to work, because Bill Gates has so much more money than me. Why bother, if I can never be as rich as him? Compared to his money, mine is negligible, and therefore I can probably do fine without it. Right?

hrtrunks wrote:

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As demonstrated by the figures above, it has quite a bit to do with the economy. Not only that, it is naïve to think that shutting one's borders to tourists could be done without economic repercussions not related to the tourist industry.

OK, so you say it would be a bad idea. Well than tell me, what would hapen?

Economically, the immediate repercussions would affect only the tourist industry. The political repercussions would be worse, and the long-term effects of these would probably result in economic loss beyond the tourist industry.

hrtrunks wrote:

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But the bottom line is that it would be wrong, not from economic reasons, but because any nation doing so would expose itself to the world as a barbarous, uncivilized nation.

>>>SO?<<<

"So?" That's your response? Well, I think the fact that you can't come up with a better response than that really speaks volumes.

hrtrunks wrote:

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I can't find a source to support these crime rate figures, and you do not mention whether theseare percentages of reported crimes in total, or whether they are relative to the number of each ethnicity.

Click me!

From that link (my emphasis in red):

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We also see that Japanese themselves are more likely to commit real crimes than anybody except the Chinese and the Brazilians (most of which are nikkei, that is Brazilians of Japanese descent). Westerners and Koreans are by far the most peaceful residents in Japan, with an fantastically low crime rate, about 12 to 18 times lower than that of the Japanese.

hrtrunks wrote:

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However, I question the reliability of the statistics, because I know how the Japanese justice system works. If the system were unbiased, the statistics would be meaningful --- but it isn't, and they are not.

Now you do know that you can't just doubt things that you don't like just like that.

Of course you can -- statistics aren't Scripture. They are subject to manipulation, especially in a judicial system like the Japanese, which operates on the assumption of guilt, which has no habeas corpus, and where non-ethnic Japanese are subject to random spot checks, on the assumption that they are criminals, because they are foreigners.

hrtrunks wrote:

You clearly didn't understand what I said. I didn't say that it is right for Yakuza to commit crimes. But they are there to commit crime. Just because people don't want them to do so, they will still do it. You get it now?

When foreigners come to Japan, they are not a part of any mafia. They are normal people Just like the ordinary Japanese. Yet both of them, sometimes commit crime.

But since none of the foreigners who commit crime is mafia related than it just shows that they who commit crime are bad people.

Just as if an ordinary Japanese person who would commit crime would be a bad person.

But since we know that there is more organised crime in japan than ordinary people commiting crimes, that showes that ordinary Japanese commit less crime than foreigners do.

You are still operating on the assumption that it is all right to exclude the Japanese organized crime from the overall crime statistics, producing an artificially deflated crime figure for Japanese (on the spurious argumentation that "ordinary Japanese don't normally commit crime, only Yakuza") and totally ignoring the possibility that foreigners involved in crime could be involved in organized crime (Japanese or foreign). Your argumentation is based in wishful thinking and unsubstantiated exclusion of parts of the statistics to support your prejudice.

hrtrunks wrote:

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"So if George Bush thinks it's okay to treat other countries like his own personal property, and the world rightly points out that this isn't really nice.... you think it's okay for Japan to kick all foreigners out?"

You do understand that INVADING ANOTHER COUNTRY and KILLING THEIR PEOPLE is not the same as REMOVING CRIMINALS FROM YOUR COUNTRY TO PROTECT YOUR PEOPLE?

Actually, you were the one making that comparison. I was merely pointing out to you that the comparison was useless.

And let's get our facts straight here: you aren't talking about expulsion of convicted non-native criminals from Japan (a common and completely acceptable national policy). You're talking about closing Japan's borders to all non-Japanese (presumably, not including the nikkei from South America, since I'm willing to bet that your entire line of thought is based in racism, not in crime rates), regardless of whether they are criminals or not.

You're talking about institutionalized racism and xenophobia, a return to the Edo era closed borders, with the only foreigners being allowed into Japan being the "useful" foreigners.

Because, yes, that worked so well.

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