Forum - View topicConfusion on 'Shounen' Genre label on several series
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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That's why I called it a "litmus test". The presence of tsuyokunaritai is a surefire indication of shounen genre, while the reverse isn't necessarily true. Something can be shounen without that phrase, but it can't have that phrase and not be shounen. - abunai |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10426 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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What they are based off of isn't absolutely relevant. Although its a good indicator. I'm nopt sure if I'd call either of those shounen, they skew more seinen IMHO. -t |
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kgw
 Posts: 1075 Location: Spain, EU |
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Thought I'm a newcomer, I think the problem is the genre "shônen" (and "shôjo", too) itself. IMHO, it just says where the story comes from: Shônen Magazine, Shônen Jump, Shônen Sunday, Margaret, Ribbon... Of course, you can find similarities between all the Shônen Jump's mangas... but you will find some differences, too.
Are we going to call "no-shônen" stories which were born in "shônen" magazines simply because is doesn't fit some gaijin  definition of "shônen genre"? (BTW: Video Girl Ai, Kimagure Orange Road are born shônen)
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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I'm confused... it seems to me that you are saying that the genre is considered to be 100% related to the magazines? I don't think anybody here has ever claimed that - just that the provenance of the stories in particular magazines are an indicator of the target demographic (though by no means a certain determining factor). - abunai |
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ACDragonMaster
 Posts: 405 |
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Agreed. Though really, I think that in the common use "shounen" and "shoujo" for genre names usually just means "aimed at a (often young) male audience" and "aimed at a (often young) female audience". Like I said before on the harem thing, a "shounen" harem series will be much different from a "shoujo" harem series, because of the intended audience. So in that sense of an indicator of who the series is intended for, it can be useful. |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10426 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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And they also fit the definition of shounen that we've given. -t |
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kgw
Posts: 1075 Location: Spain, EU |
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I fail to see the action & fighting in KOR... 
But then again, since I just call "shônen" those mangas coming from "shônen" magazines, maybe (for sure) I'm missing the point of the "shônen" genre in the Encyclopedia. 
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F.A.I.T.H
Posts: 22 |
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Hmm...Isn't it that whatever anime that is listed as a 'shounen' anime is one that appeals to teenage boys between the age of maybe 14 to 18 or so? You can fit in all that harem, ecchi, action, mecha anime into that category. At least that's what I think...
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ACDragonMaster
Posts: 405 |
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I usually think of the term as "aimed at" rather than "appeals to". Because the former is usually more accurate. The style tends to reflect the intended audience, but that doesn't necessarily match up with who actually ends up reading/watching it (look at the huge female Prince of Tennis fandom, for example). Something intended for a male audience, though, tends to be quite different from something intended for a female audience, regardless of whom it ends up appealing to.
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Dan42
Chief Encyclopedist
 Posts: 3785 Location: Montreal |
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If you think about it, 90% of anime has that triumvirate to some extent or another (and so does 90% of any form of entertainment), but that doesn't mean 90% of anime has the shounen style. Harem anime is definitely shounen in the demographic sense, but there is no way you can put it alongside Dragonball or Yu-gi-oh ot Naruto or Bleach as an example of the shounen style. Harem anime is first and foremost romantic comedy. The triumvirate is about wanting to become the best at fighting/driving/cooking/whatever and the ability to beat anyone in a competition/match/duel/etc. It's about power, as simple as that. Harem anime is miiiiiles away from that. |
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ACDragonMaster
Posts: 405 |
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Well yes, pretty much every story has some form of conflict, which is what those ideas stem from. What marks something as "shounen", as far as the definition being used here goes, is when that is especially emphasized. Look at just about any episode of Yu-Gi-Oh or such to see the stereotype. It's very, very common in series serialized in magazines like Shounen Jump.
Not everything is blatent, though. Rurouni Kenshin ran in Jump, but we certainly didn't get the "moral lesson after every episode" thing that's present in something like Pokemon. Yes, most of those same universal ideas were there, and they do show up strongly in the story parts that focus on Yahiko, but for most of it they get kinda moved backstage in favor of the main plot and character development getting the spotlight. Fullmetal Alchemist is another good example of a manga where yes, these ideas are present, but it's rare if ever to hear a character give a convenient little speech on it. And certainly one can find those elements in non-shounen titles. Many shoujo stories definitely have the friendship and struggle elements in some form, and I'm sure victory shows up in some of them, too. (I don't read enough shoujo titles to find specific examples, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least) Really, I think that the simplest way to define the terms is that "shounen" is "aimed at a male audience" and that "shoujo" is "aimed at a female audience". With maybe the qualifier of "young" in there particularly for shounen, as there's definitely stuff aimed at an older male audience that I think anyone would agree is not shounen... |
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Well, yes and no. Most harem anime feature a rival of some sort, whether real or perceived, for the affections of the main female a sort of counterpoint to the struggle between the females of the harem for the male lead's attention. But the match is, I agree, a central feature of shounen anime - whether it is a bloodless, formalised 試合 (shiai) as in PokéMon or Yakitate! Japan!; or a more violent 勝負 (shoubu) as in Tenjou Tenge or Dragon Ball; or even a battle to the death. There is an element of formalism to all of this that is clearly catered to appeal to the mind of the pre-teenage or teenage boy - a mindset that features a quasi-autistic emotional dependence on clear and formal rules for everything, and on a hierarchy of categorisation. This is the same mindset that produces manic collectors and trading card gamers. - abunai |
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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In this thread, it has become clear that ANN just lumps seinan and shounen into one category which answers my question. I think everyone can agree that Berserk is a seinan title. And yet, it is labled as shounen in the encylcopedia. I really think there should be a distinction between shounen and seinan (and shoujo and josei) in the encyclopedia.
I had thought that a manga's target demographic (shounen, shoujo, seinan, josei) was determined by the magazine it appeared in, but it appears that that is not necessarily the case. Because of that, I suppose that making a distinction between seinan and shounen may be difficult. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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(Sigh) It is, and it always has been. 
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ACDragonMaster
Posts: 405 |
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Maybe remove shounen and shoujo as genres altogether and replace them with something else? It's an issue of the target demographic, there's probably something else that could describe it as well...
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