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Plastic Memories (TV).


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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:52 pm Reply with quote
This was a strong first episode, a good chunk of concepts were presented and pretty much an indirect promise that before the end of series at least one of the Gifta crew is probably going to "be retired" and it won't be a pretty event.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 3524
Location: Bellevue, WA
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:54 pm Reply with quote
Raftina wrote:
Remember that storage devices have limits to how fast they can read and write. The 81920 hours limit may very well be simply be design tolerance/maximum write speed, with the subsequent failures enforced by software as a public relations management technique.

As to why they would use a time-based expiration, I can think of two reasons:

First, giftias are physical things that move around on their own initiative--and from what we have seen thus far, unique objects whose users would not like to see cloned--, not a stationary device whose data is backed up in numerous other places. Ensuring recovery before failures occur is more important than in a standard computer. In "The Bicentennial Man", US Robots and Mechanical Men enforced a time-based obsolescence system because they greatly feared the negative PR associated with an actual failure of a robot.

Second, a time-based system is easier to administer than a wear based system. In real life, there's a fair amount of controversy associated with smart devices phoning home. Recall that Michiru mentioned that privacy concerns was the reason the owner must be present when the giftia is erased. It is unlikely, then, that SAI would include a system for reporting wear level to headquarters. A time-based system would permit them to track expiration without needing to connect to the giftias.

While these are ultimately motivated by the desire to protect the corporation, they are there to address public concerns. Even if the giftias expire so precisely because the company had included a kill switch unrelated to actual wear, the move need not be motivated by some sort of conspiracy. A conspiracy is certainly a possibility, but I'd like to see the story address the more mundane motivations for once.

And what if that data wasn't actually deleted? All we know is what the Company PR has said occurs. If there were several companies able to create Giftia-level robots I would be far less inclined to look for sinister plot elements. As it is, I think it's perfectly rational to do so.

Regarding the article you mentioned... I didn't follow the link, but I'm guessing it's the SSD torture test till failure experiment that some tech guys did. I read that article a couple of weeks ago... pretty interesting stuff. But yes, your explanation is a *possible* one, and I'd be foolish to deny that, but it isn't the only explanation. So, yes, the story might turn out to be more mundane than my cynical mind postulates. With only one episode under our belts, the direction the show is going is still pretty open, so I guess we'll see how it plays out.
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Raftina



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 3282
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:28 pm Reply with quote
Keep in mind this word:
Raftina wrote:
The fact that SAI built a software kill switch into the giftia does not necessarily mean a sinister motive.

I do not propose my solution as the only possible one, merely a valid alternative. Now that both possibilities are on the table, there is insufficient information to guess which is correct, if either.

Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:

And what if that data wasn't actually deleted? All we know is what the Company PR has said occurs. If there were several companies able to create Giftia-level robots I would be far less inclined to look for sinister plot elements.

The unique ability to create a program to run giftia does not imply a unique knowledge their storage medium. A physicist who knows nothing about programming can check whether a NAND flash storage has been deleted by verifying the electronic state of the flash storage, because the basic theory behind NAND storage can be learned without the benefit of knowing how to program. And, of course, if the data on the giftia is encrypted, then having a working knowledge of the storage medium does not imply an ability to reverse engineer the giftia programming.

The fact that the giftia is pulled into storage--without the benefit of having an independent examination--is more suggestive than whether other companies are capable of creating a robot with an artificial soul.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 3524
Location: Bellevue, WA
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:28 pm Reply with quote
Well, Raftina, there are far too many unknowns here. We don't know what is common, or at least not extremely restricted, knowledge in the world. The MC said that only SEI was capable creating "artificial souls", but we don't know if that's really true or not, only that the MC believes it is true. We also don't know if the hardware aspects of the Giftia are well-known, or if it is only the OS that is exclusive knowledge. Thus, there could easily be a second data storage device that only SEI knows about. All I'm saying here is that we shouldn't take everything at face value this early in the series... well, I'm not, anyway, but I'm a pretty suspicious guy by nature. Razz
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TRNielson



Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Posts: 182
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:00 pm Reply with quote
WhiteHairGirls wrote:
Damn i don't know if I can handle a tearjerker so soon after YLIA.


Right there with you. YLIA left me emotionally drained and now something as emotionally provoking as this? As much as it makes me want to turn my Man Card in, probably gonna need to keep tissues nearby for this show.

Absolutely looking forward to where this show goes.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11424
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:05 pm Reply with quote
I'm among those expecting a darker turn to this series. So far we've seen only benign uses of these robots, as an adopted son, a niece and a lover. I see no reason why they would only be cared for lovingly, given some people's treatment of human "loved" ones, let alone humans considered as property.

I'm interested to see what sort of laws have formed around the Giftias. Because if we ever create something like this, I suspect it could and would go a lot like parts of the movie A.I., unless there were laws against abusing them (seems like it would have to be some sort of leasing program rather than purchase to enforce SAI's property rights without assigning human rights to the Giftias).

I'm also not clear on why the memories and "soul" can't be transferred to new storage media before the old hardware degrades. Raftina called them "unique objects whose users would not like to see cloned," but I don't see why not. People want to clone their pets, even knowing (or maybe not realizing) the clone won't be the same just because its genetics are, and I think a lot of people would be on board for their loved ones to continue if their personality, memories and "souls" could be transferred into new containers. If it could be done, I think the grandmother would have preferred the niece to be transferred rather than erased, so my question is why can't that be done?
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Shikiari



Joined: 09 Sep 2013
Posts: 462
Location: Wales
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:15 pm Reply with quote
Episode 1

I'm really surprised by how good the first episode was. It managed to blend in the tearjerker moments with the right amount of comedy without upsetting the balance.

If it follows the route that I expect it to with spoiler[Isla's own degrading self ] then it could be a good series, but if changes from the norm then we could well be onto something great.
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TRNielson



Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Posts: 182
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:24 pm Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
I'm also not clear on why the memories and "soul" can't be transferred to new storage media before the old hardware degrades. Raftina called them "unique objects whose users would not like to see cloned," but I don't see why not. People want to clone their pets, even knowing (or maybe not realizing) the clone won't be the same just because its genetics are, and I think a lot of people would be on board for their loved ones to continue if their personality, memories and "souls" could be transferred into new containers. If it could be done, I think the grandmother would have preferred the niece to be transferred rather than erased, so my question is why can't that be done?


My theory on this (and it's just that, a theory) is that they're memories/soul aren't just simple hardware. Judging from the fact that we saw Isla crying at the beginning of the episode, it seems clear that they're far more human than you would expect of an android. As such, it seems likely that they really do possess actual brains, hence being able to maintain memories. So it would logically follow that you can't transfer memories/souls because you're actually talking about a living, functioning brain. Unless medical technology has evolved to the point where they can do a full brain transfer.

But, even if they could, this "degeneration" sounds like it might be an actual breakdown of the subject's brain, causing changes to their personality that is a supposed symptom. So even if you could transfer the brain into another body, you'd still only be transferring a damaged brain into another body.

Tl/dr. Simple answer: Too human to transfer memory.
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15510
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:44 am Reply with quote
Episode 1

Anime cry Maybe I really should not watch this series. I was crying so much at the end of this first episode, I was pretty close to sobbing. I said before that I am easily affected, but if the pilot can do this I am in for something. But the thing is that I still love it, this tragedy actually hurts, but I can't get enough.

One could think that the system is far fetched, but after going through Chobits, there has been quite a lot to consider about the realness that can come from the relationship between a human and an artificial human (android). There was a video I watched not long ago that went into why some things like dating sims actually have a pretty big market in something like Japan, and it went into that the pressured of work and such are causes for the dating scene can be a bit spotty. The point I am making with that is not a culture of people that has a problem with needing to create for a weird reason, but that there were trends that even a computer program that at the end of the da could sit there and smile when they need it, can feel very supportive. That we get told that they have "synthetic souls" we really can jump in and see how these artificial people can hold real feelings, which I feel like is an evolution of other ideas.

As for the expiration date, I can see some reasoning for it outside of it being explained yet. It looks like kill switches are a very real possibility. In another sci-fie franchise, Halo, the human like "smart AI" like Cortana, last a measly 7 years, the idea being that the AI starts to think beyond the level the evolving program starts to fragment from overthinking. If along similar lines I can think that even if something bad seems to happen at the expiration date, it might well be done to prevent sudden unforeseeable and possibly dangerous actions that could harm people. It makes sense that a company that provides a companion that is safe and quite human would need it recovered before it starts deteriorating.

Final thoughts are on the animation looking similar to Engaged to the Unidentified.
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Ohoni



Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 3421
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:11 am Reply with quote
This series had elements that could potentially be good, but it wasted them with hamfisted attempts at emotion, and lackluster visuals. Having read the glowing reviews, I was extremely disappointed. Is there like a "tv" and an "OVA" version of this being released simultaneously or something?

Quote:

As for the expiration date, I can see some reasoning for it outside of it being explained yet. It looks like kill switches are a very real possibility. In another sci-fie franchise, Halo, the human like "smart AI" like Cortana, last a measly 7 years, the idea being that the AI starts to think beyond the level the evolving program starts to fragment from overthinking. If along similar lines I can think that even if something bad seems to happen at the expiration date, it might well be done to prevent sudden unforeseeable and possibly dangerous actions that could harm people. It makes sense that a company that provides a companion that is safe and quite human would need it recovered before it starts deteriorating.


I don't think they have "kill switches," that would make things too simple. I rather think that the "time limit" is because they don't have kill switches, but operating beyond that limit leads to rampancy, which is why they need to be taken into custody before that. A rampant AI could cause all sorts of potential problems, from Boomer random violence, to some sort of data crime spree. Presumably they just want to take them off the streets before they do anything that could drive lawsuits.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23878
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:32 am Reply with quote
Ohoni wrote:
This series had elements that could potentially be good, but it wasted them with hamfisted attempts at emotion...


What was so hamfisted? I'm assuming you are referring to the scene with the little girl and the grandmother. I thought that was very well handled. Hamfisted to me indicates that there was something clunky about the execution or they gilded the lily by piling on pathos or over-extended an emotional beat, none of which happened, imo.

Personally, I think there is a type of viewer out there who simply considers themselves "too cool for school" and any time a show tries to have an emotional sequence they will reflexively sneer at it lest somebody - horrors! - considers them a sap.
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Ohoni



Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 3421
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:39 am Reply with quote
Quote:

What was so hamfisted? I'm assuming you are referring to the scene with the little girl and the grandmother. I thought that was very well handled. Hamfisted to me indicates that there was something clunky about the execution or they gilded the lily by piling on pathos or over-extended an emotional beat, none of which happened, imo.


I tend to get emotional. I mean, there's that scene early in the FMA series, I can't get through that in one piece. And don't even get me started on One Piece, but this show? Tried too hard, overshot. That scene you indicated, it just seemed so over the top, with her projectile tears, I almost empathized with it, but then went over the bar and almost laughed at how ridiculous it was. It just didn't earn a proper emotional response, too many cliched tear-demanders, not enough foundation, it was just thwacking my knee with a Mjolnir-sized reflex hammer, and I refused to bite.

It was to "emotional significance" what Queens Blade is to premature ejaculations.
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15510
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:16 am Reply with quote
I want to berate you Ohoni, but you entitled to your opinion. And my opinion was that it was very well done, and in no way "hamfisted". And saying that makes me think one is either trying too hard to say they are too cool for that or being a little too cynical a person, saying that it left a bad taste or almost made you laugh is something I have heard other say in response to various emotional scenes, and I always find it hard to understand.

But you are indeed entitled to your own. Although you can read the reviews and read many comments in places with many people feeling that it was successfully emotional.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23878
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:54 am Reply with quote
@ Ohoni - You providing some context about material that did engender an emotional response in you makes me think you aren't a "too cool for school" type - obviously, this particular scene just didn't do it for you. Fair enough.
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Wrangler



Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 1346
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:48 am Reply with quote
Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:
No one else has mentioned this yet, but if you listened closely to when Tsukasa was describing what little he knew of of the Company, he mentioned that the Giftia contained "artificial souls" which *only* SA Corp. knows how to make. Hmm... HMMM...

Now how, do you suppose, these souls are created? Why is the end date set so precisely? I mean, that would imply that there are no variations in wear or memory storage or whatever parameters they're using in determining that date. What if someone had a very boring, leisurely life and another Gifta had a frenetic, turbulent one?

In fact, what this show reminds me of, in a way, is Witch Hunter Robin. I have a sneaking suspicion that there are some very dark things awaiting us, but maybe I'm just being paranoid here.


That pretty much what i felt was going on in the show. They need a big something going on beyond possibly hopeless relationship between a human and his Gifta. SA Corp should have competition, yet as far we can tell there isn't. Not mentioning the possibility that entire life span factor could be artificial to continue to stimulate sales of the Gifta in the first place.

Not sure If this is for me, i like hardcore science fiction stories. This kinda of emotional drama may not be for me.
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