Forum - View topicThe relationship between Naruto and Sasuke
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kolibri
 Posts: 712 Location: Vancouver |
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How about you tell us first why you think he doesn't. I would really appreciate good grammar and more than two sentences. |
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naruto fan 09812
 Posts: 499 |
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Sure,Kolibri I would go into more detail why I do not think so. If the Curse Seal is so damm strong did why did all five of the Sound 5 lost to Genins. Abeit,the genins almost got killed doing so and have help from the sand nins they won against better nins. How can Sasuke beat Itachi when the Sound 5 lost to Genins and Sasuke is only a genin so how can he expect to beat someone like Itachi.
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BrothersElric
 Posts: 1996 |
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And that's exactly the point. He can't beat Itachi as he is, and his curse mark alone isn't nearly strong enough. His thinking is that Orochimaru will give him that power he needs, and quite frankly, as far as I can tell, he has. He has a brand spankin' new curse mark form for one, and, to his belief, Orochimaru can teach him how to become stronger by making him a cold hearted, hate filled warrior with no emotions or relationships, which is the reason why he's wandering around in darkness: because he thinks that way. Also keep one thing in mind: Sasuke had to fight the Sound 5 all at the same time and all by himself, while the Konoha 5 got to fight them all one on one, and like you said, they needed help from the sand ninja and almost die to win anyways. |
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kolibri
Posts: 712 Location: Vancouver |
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Main point I think is that Orochimaru wants Sharingan. He would have preferred Itachi's body but he was too strong (willed) - plan B was Sasuke. Not only can he use Sharingan to copy all the jutsus he wants, including whatever it is Itachi can throw at him, but also that without Sharingan it's almost impossible to face Itachi - Kakashi and Sasuke even with theirs were both left in vegetative state after his Mangekyo Sharingan attacks.
Otochimaru will boost Sasuke up as much as he can in the few years he has to wait, and then take his body. Then Orochimaru will have Sharingan, coupled with all his previous experience and skills - and the thought of this pissed off even Akatsuki. Sasuke will be just a stain in his consciousness - but that will be enough for him, that he will be able to witness his brother's demise at least on some level. I don't know if killing Itachi is any kind of priority for Orochimaru - but he's not the lying kind and I think he's more than willing to do the favour for Sasuke in exchange for his cooperation. |
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C r i m s o n
 Posts: 38 |
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Just to clarify matters, I would like to say beforehand that ranks does not label the ninja's capabilities, but symbolizes the ninja's experience. Which we learned first-hand spoiler[when Rock Lee (Genin) stood his ground against Kimimaro]. Moreover, Sasuke is in fact not the "Sound 5," unlike the Sound 5, he too holds a kekkei genkai like spoiler[Kimimaro]. Which makes him a primary target for Orochimaru to host his newly found regenerating body. How can Sasuke beat Itachi? Don't know, but knowing Sasuke, I'm sure he has learned a formidable amount of techniques within the two year interval spent with Orochimaru. -Crimson |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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When the fight ended, Naruto was unconscious. Sasuke had enough energy to get far enough away that Kakashi couldn't follow him. If Sasuke had wanted to at that point, he could have slit Naruto's throat, put his hand over his mouth and nose, or pushed him into the lake. He wouldn't need to get a Super KO to take him out at that point, but he chose not to.
That's actually not a question, it's a statement, and a true one.
Their relationship is actually a bit better than the Vegita/Goku one. Those two really aren't very good friends, they just tend to team up together against common foes. Sasuke and NAruto, on the other hand, are pretty deep friends who are driven APART he uncommon goals.
Sasuke's pretty messed up. He just couldn't see his options in Konoha. When those sound ninja pwned him they promised that they could raise his level equally high. The offer of easy power corrupted him because he always had a severe infiriority complex, due to how much better his brother always was. It all makes sense from a psychological perspective.
Have you seen post-skip Sasuke? He's pretty powerful (enough to pwn Naruto, Sakura, Sai, and a Jounin). I think that under Orochimaru's tutilidge Ssuke could very well gain the power to beat Itachi, especially if he's willing to sacrifice his future for it (like in accepting dangerous and life-shortening "ninja steroids" for the purpose of powering him up for a single fight).
See, I actually think Sasuke has no intention of turning his body over to Orochimaru, and that Orochimaru knows and accepts this. I think that they both realize that at some point one of them will make their move, and they believe they can win to accomplish their goal. It's a little like a wester shootout, waiting for the draw. 
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kolibri
Posts: 712 Location: Vancouver |
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Ooh, I like that theory! That would also fit in nicely with why Sasuke doesn't want Naruto and Sakura running around. However, I would argue that so far Orochimaru's tactics have been based on volunteers. He doesn't really rule through fear, but through loyalty - Sound Five were prepared to (and did) die for him, and so is Kabuto (although I'm sure he's got something for us before the end). Basically he seems to be a firm believer on carrots instead of sticks - therefore he made Sasuke an offer he couldn't refuse, instead of just kidnapping him. Not to say Orochimaru hasn't been preparing for Sasuke betraying him. I'm sure he's got a hook on Sasuke that he doesn't know about. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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See, I think it's a combination of the two. He KNOWS Kabuto plans to betray him somehow, whatever Kabuto's goals are, they're furthered by working with Orochimaru, but I don't think he's TRULY loyal to him. Orochi cultivates loyalty when he can, makes devil's promises to gain temporary allegience when he can't. He feels confident that he can keep all those plates spinning while he advances on his own goals. Sop basically, Sasuke knows Orochi wants to take him over, but has no intention of letting him, and believe that he either can now, or at least potentially could in the future, escape from him. Orochimaru, on the other hand, knows that Sasuke has no intention of submitting himself for the final call, but he's confident that when the time comes he can reel Sasuke in. Fun.
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naruto fan 09812
Posts: 499 |
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At first I thought Kabuto betray Orochimaru when Tsunade was trying to heal Orochimaru arms as its turn out Kabuto saves him. Everyone knows that Orochimaru and Kabuto relationship is strain. For Example, when they were waiting for Sasuke to come that they were at each other thoart. Orochimaru knows that Kabuto will betray him sooner rather then later
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kolibri
Posts: 712 Location: Vancouver |
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Kabuto is such an enigma. He's done some really nice things, like healing Hinata out of his own free will (and probably saving her life), but he's also cruel and evil (he was trying his best to kill Naruto, and we know he's been working on human experiments at Orochimaru's). He was seriously considering killing Sasuke so that he wouldn't fall into Orochimaru's hands after Orochimaru started to get worried about Naruto's influence on him... but then he's also offering his body to Orochimaru (ooh, that sounds so dirty) when it looks like Sasuke won't arrive on time. I was never sure though if he did this because he knew Orochimaru wouldn't take the offer and he thought it would be safe thing to do. But yeah, his loyalty will probably only carry so far. And they have common goals, at least to a point. I'm still not quite sure what Kabuto's attitude towards Sasuke is - it sometimes looks like he's almost jealous to him for all the attention Orochimaru gives him, and likes to berate Sasuke for lack of respect towards him.
Ain't it just 
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Dranxis
 Posts: 591 Location: Ohtori Academy |
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Didn't Sasuke explain that he didn't care if Orochimaru used his body or not: as long as Itachi was killed in the end and his clan avanged, what became of his own body didn't matter to him? I think he said something similar to that after spoiler[Naruto, Sakura and Sai find him at Orochimaru's hideout.].
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SharinganEyes92
 Posts: 816 |
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Yes, he did say that. I was going to post that information also. I believe he says so in the same scene as the opening scene of the first episode of Naruto: Shippuuden, but they left it out, along with alot of other dialogue that was in the manga. I guess they just wanted to make it short and sweet and save it for when they actually get to that part in the storyline. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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Yeah. Clearly Kabuto is getting something he wants out of working with Orochi, but he isn't with him out of love or friendship, he's there for business, and at some point he's going to decide to cut out.
That'd be my guess. If Orochi did take him up on it I bet he would have sabotaged him. It's all politics, telling the other person what he wants to hear, even though both of you is 99% sure that you're both lying, and that you both know the other is lying, and that you both know that he knows that you're lying.
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BrothersElric
Posts: 1996 |
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And this is one of the reasons why Sasuke is wondering around in darkness. Mabye he doesn't care what happens to him, but he should care about what happens to his friends if anything should happen to him. Which is one of the reasons why Naruto wants to get him back in the first place: because both him and Sakura are worried about him and want him back. But more along the lines of the theory that Sasuke has no intention at all to let Orochimaru have him (which I think I do agree with), I think he said he didn't care what happened to him because he had no intention of letting anything happen to him. I mean, in a way, it kind of feels like his experiences with Naruto and Sakura before he left was more like "I really do care about you, but this is something I have to do. Don't worry about me, I'll be fine. I won't let Orochimaru have me. So don't trouble yourselves with stoping me." And I think what he says to them when they meet him after the time jump about not caring about them is just because of his hard outer persona, when really he feels that way about them deep down inside. |
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kolibri
Posts: 712 Location: Vancouver |
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Snif, that's beautiful. And it's not that I don't want to believe it. Let's take the intro scene from Shippuuden. Naruto is almost in catatonic state - it looks like Sasuke is about to kill him, but he does nothing to stop him. How I interpret this is that Naruto doesn't believe Sasuke can do it, so he doesn't see any reason to resist - he knows there's a chance he's miscalculated but in a way even thinks that if he's made such a colossal mistake he deserves to die (that incredibly sad expression on his face, how Junko delivers the "how can a person like that become a Hogake" line... simply stunning). If this attempt from Sasuke is to deceive Orochimaru he'd have to then have absolute faith in Naruto & al that he won't be able to do it... and it sure doesn't look like it. But even if that's Sasuke's plan A, I would say his plan B would still be to give in to Orochimaru. What comes to killing Itachi, that would be a win-win situation. |
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