Forum - View topicNow and Then, Here and There (TV).
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AnimeLord
Posts: 29 |
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I usually don't comment on the forums since I'm a man of little words
 . This anime was just a masterpiece, but I find it difficult to understand why it is not on best anime list. I decided to watch one episode then watch several more later on. I would like to say so much more even a whole page, but I can't  .
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poilk92
 Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
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Quite the old topic yes I know but I wanted to throw my 2 cents in. So, I got this one for christmas and wow, just wow. Though as a whole I think I would have prefered a darker more serious looking animation style, the cute dorky looking main character and his outlook on life made the third episode where things really start happening completely shock me. There have been scenes of spoiler[rape and torture] in other shows and other anime BUT it hit me like a truck in this one because the build up was so well done. I love the character Nabuca, such an interesting character because if you judge him on his actions he is undoubtedly evil spoiler[he kidnaps children trains child solders kills civilians including children on a regular basis]. But of course its obvious what he does tears him up inside and he is just "following orders" which is of course a great allegory to the Nazis. But making you ask the question "is he really a bad guy? He was just following orders" forces you to examine some of the other characters with the same question in mind. Including Tabool, a character obviously designed to be disliked but honestly is he a bad person or has he just been part of the system so long he has been institutionalized? Personally I would have liked to see the main characters spirit get broken at some point, something like "Candide" where an unbelievably positive character see the true horrors of the world and is broken by it. But it is so well done i think the writers probably knew what they were doing.
The ending did leave me with a lingering thought though. spoiler[How horrific must this kid's scars be? He has been whipped, apparently many MANY times, and in case you don't know when you whip someone it doesn't just hit you, it cuts you like a knife. Also I have never seen bird beak scars but I would bet anything that they are quite gruesome. OH not to mention the 2 bullet wounds certain brain damage from repeated concussions and several broken bones I'm sure]. This kids next medical checkup child services will be called IMMEDIATELY thats a goddamn guarantee |
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nobahn
 Subscriber Posts: 5120 |
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@poilk92:
Dunno if this thread will get locked for necroposting; but I just wanted to add my own two cents: I found the series to be wholly and unexpectedly grim. Personally, (and this is just my POV) I was rather turned off by the protagonist telling the spoiler[girl who was raped that she should not consider an abortion]; I found that to be simply too much. I will say, however, that I both appreciated and was impressed by the fact that the spoiler[rapist] did get some non-verbal character development. |
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Unicorn_Blade
 Posts: 1153 Location: UK |
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@poilk, I think the series was depressing enough without the protagonist's spirit being broken.
I also found it so tragic that Sarah, despite getting a sort of a not so unhappy ending, ended up the way she did. It was like a happy ending without one, I dont really know how to explain it. She seemed calm about what happened, but I was not sure whether it was because she accepted it, or because she gave up and was forced to accept the way things are. I think she was the character I symphatised the most with. spoiler[Kidnapped, raped many, many times, finally pregnant with a child whose unknown father was obviously one of the rapists]. Not really wanting to go back home, although I questioned it a bit- I think she might have been able to start a sort of new life in our world. The scene when one of the soldiers spoiler[saves the little boy at the cost of his life] is probably one of my favourites. spoiler[He smiles, and then he is gone forever.] I loved the series for such tiny details that made the experience of watching it deeper. All in all, I must say I loved it, it is one of my all time favourites, and probably one of the saddest anime I have seen. I am a bit sad everytime I listen to the ending credits, and the animation during them always makes me a bit sentimental 
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poilk92
Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
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I KNOW! But that true darkness, a kind of grimness that exists all over the world but we just pretend isnt happening makes this series great. To me Sarah is one of the strongest, emotionaly and in terms of strength of character, characters in anime. No matter how you feel about abortion her choice to keep the baby is a very positive message. In fact spoiler[she describes her pregnancy as the product of the world she is in, which really drives home the message that no matter how dark things are life will go on and carry with it the hopes of the previous generation]. In a series about the senseless atrocities of war the message of hope for the future that a baby brings is very important and a great sign off for the series. Oh, and one other thing. I know there is a lot of anime out there with young teens and or children as the main characters, but this is the only anime that seems to use this cliche effectively as a symbol. It really helps emphasize the "dark world" setting where everything is backwards. Normally children symbolize innocence and hope but for much of the series all you see is child solders showing how war corrupts what should be our hope for the future. The children's experience in the world is reminiscent of "Lord of the Flies" where a child's innocence and naiveté will cause them to adapt to and accept a much darker world where atrocities are committed and they view it as perfectly natural, because they lack proper perspective of the world. |
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Prede
 Posts: 388 |
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That's not just "one of the soldiers" either spoiler[ if I remember correctly he's the second person to rape Sara. So quite a change in character there eh? ]. Anyway seeing how this topic (which I've read many times already) got a bump I mine as well chime in. Now and Then, Here and There is one of my all time favorite anime series. It truly deserves the title of "masterpiece" in my eyes. So few series can stand up next to it. It's anti-war/pacifist message is nothing we haven't heard before, but the way it delivers this message is breathtaking. The characters are so life like, so human. You feel like you really know them. And to date this is the only series that made me cry spoiler[ when Lala-Ru disapeared into the sunset!  That scene broke me into tears! ] . This is such a well crafted show. So sad, so disturbing, yet so very perfect. And the ending is my favorite ending to anything, book, movie, anime, whatever. There is so much more I could say about this series...
And to those saying Hamdo is too "unrealistic" or a caricature, I say not so. There have been plenty of people exactly like him in our world, sadly enough. |
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Unicorn_Blade
Posts: 1153 Location: UK |
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The reason why I said 'one of the soldiers' is not because I cant remember what he did, but because he remained a nameless character throughout the series. I know he fas following Sarah for quite some time and had a deeper affection for her, that reached beyond lust, despite him raping her...
I cried as well. Actually, I cried throughout the whole of the last episode. First, when Lala-ru spoiler[disappears], and later on, when Abelia turns on the machinery to spoiler[send Shu back home]. And when the ending credits start and you see the chimneys where it all atarted. One of the most, if not THE most, memorable moment for me from an anime.
Definitely, enough to think of what is going on in Northern Korea at the moment, or in South Americas, or in various places around Arfica, I think Hamdo woould still be considered lenient according to some 'standards' that exist all over the world. |
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EmbraceMe
 Posts: 2015 Location: Growing old and jaded. |
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I have been putting this series on hold for a long time and I haven't been motivated enough to watch it. But after reading discussions and spoilers, I guess I should really start now. It sounds "depressing" (or at least has depressing themes), and I think I'll really enjoy being emotionally destroyed. Hopefully I watch it soon enough to have some discussions.
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7986 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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I really had a hard time watching this. I just didn't connect with any of the characters and generally found it to be way too depressing and hopeless for my tastes. It was on TV though and not very long so I trudged through it.
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poilk92
Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
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@Kruszer
That makes me examine my own tastes because I didn't think it was dark enough
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Kruszer
Posts: 7986 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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I usually dig dark stuff too, but not when I can't find any characters to like, like in this case. It's hard to care about the storyline and what happens to the characters if you don't like them.
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bravetailor
Posts: 817 |
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You know, back in 2002-ish when i first saw this, I too thought it was some kind of masterpiece. I don't know if I think the same way now. There used to be a time when I would be swayed by how "dark" and "emotionally gut-wrenching" a show is, but in retrospect I think NTHT tried WAY too hard to be meaningful. Contrary to popular belief, writing dark and emotionally wrenching stories is the easiest thing to do. Need to get a rise out of the audience? Just think of doing something horrible! I know! Let's take this sweet little girl and have her go through some truly heinous crap. Want to get the tears flowing? Let's have a bunch of these kids die in truly horrible ways!
I'm not against the use of these things to manipulate audiences once in a while but when you do it for basically the entire show you're sort of making it obvious that you're basically saying, "Cry! Cry! This is really bad, isn't it? This is like so emotionally DRAINING ain't it?" I actually put this show in the guilty pleasure section. I for one like that kind of manipulative grim crap, but to say that you're seeing some subtle, organic writing here that's award-worthy is really pushing it. It's like those films that win Oscars because they're the best at jerking tears out of the audience (terms of endearment, anyone?). It DOESN'T make them masterpieces. Last edited by bravetailor on Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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bravetailor,
You've hit upon the reason I don't think NTHT is a masterpiece. A decent enough anime, sure, but not a masterpiece. For me, the writers are too hamfisted at their emotional manipulation, much like I found Air to be. Many of the characters never felt free of the hand of their creator(s), but more like dolls doing and saying what they were told to do and say. And, bravetailor, if you like this sort of "manipulative grim crap", I urge you to try Air, if you haven't already. |
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bravetailor
Posts: 817 |
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Hmm, Air, eh? My library has all the volumes but I passed it off as another typical moe girls doing cute moe things by the look of the cover art and character designs. But if it really jerks the tears and tries to push my buttons incessantly, maybe I'll try it out! |
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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I don't particularly feel that way at all. Let's not play stupid and pretend that even here on Earth, there aren't child soldiers dying in wars right now.
I think sometimes people live in a bubble. The things that happen in Now and Then, Here and There (of course, other than the sci-fi stuff) is quite plausible in our world. There are ruthless dictators at times. There are child soldiers fighting and dying in pointless war. There are women being raped over and over. I think you do a great disservice by saying it's "hamfisted". Just because some of us aren't aware of the multitude of suffering in the world doesn't mean you can discredit a work that's trying to bring it to the forefront by saying it's "manipulative". Every single great work is manipulative. Gundam is manipulative. Legend of the Galactic Heroes is manipulative. Gankutsuou is manipulative. Cowboy Bebop is manipulative. They are all farking manipulative because the authors of each of these works want the viewer to feel something when they watch. I swear, describing something as "manipulative" as if it's detrimental is one of the stupidest arguments I've ever seen fans take part in. "How dare that show be written in a way to make me feel certain emotions!" |
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