Forum - View topicREVIEW: Death Note DVD Box Set 1
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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So let me get this straight. Because Death Note raises questions about morality, that means it is bound to continually raise them at every opportunity? I mean, how many Anime even bother to raise questions of morality at all? Most people are happy when an author allows their readers to determine the characters' morality for themselves. And yet, here you are complaining that Tsugumi Ohba isn't trying to ram his values down your throats. Don't you know how unfair that is?
It is a work of fiction for heaven's sake. There has to be a suspension of disbelief when you are dealing with the large majority of productions. That is how plot and drama occur. And it is not trying to pretend that it is the real world, because the real world does not have Death Notes and Shinigami. Do you know how many Anime I could mention that were even more unrealistic? Dozens just off the top of my head. Why do you hold Death Note to a different standard? As for the morally grey people, did you even know what that means? It roughly means people who are willing to stoop to doing bad things to achieve their goals, which they believe to be good. It is the old argument that the end justifies the means. Do you realise how many people have walked on Earth who have done morally ambiguous acts? Adolf Hitler (and please don't cite Godwin to me) genuinely believed he was doing the right thing, possibly even including giving the order to exterminate the Jews. Being "morally grey" isn't the crime you make it out to be, nor is it confined to Light's world. It is but an unfortunate result of humans having free will, with all the differing viewpoints over morality that implies.
That's a laugh, belittling the plot like that. Yes, I know that it is on the surface a very straightforward one (guy kills criminals, detective tries to catch him). But it is FAR more intelligently written than 95% of Anime. It isn't trying to be overly realistic in some ways, what with the notebooks-that-can-kill angle. As for the universe it is set in, don't you think it is a tad more realistic than most Anime and Manga? The double standard you apply is downright disgusting, and you (and everyone who thinks this way) should be ashamed. But most importantly, you haven't addressed the issue at take here; why is this Anime getting a C+? It is the same grade that Mr. Kimlinger gave UFO Ultramaiden Valkyrie 3 and a grade lower than what he gave Di Gi Charat Nyo (both sub and DVD 1 ratings), two shows that are nowhere near Death Note in terms of matching its art, animation, music, plot, writing and themes. Don't you think that something is a tad fishy here? ......... No, really. I am asking you a serious question here. ......... Sigh. Obviously not. And that's what's so sad. People who attack it just for what it is, without bothering to use their brains. I'm not saying that everyone has to like Death Note, not at all. But what kind of person (especially one who is a professional reviewer) thinks that it deserves to be rated so abysmally and then fails to see the inherent flaws in their logic? I do wonder. Last edited by dtm42 on Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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maaya
Posts: 976 |
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That is completely true.
That, too, is completely true. But from what I know that is what Death Note is supposed to be. The author never intended for DN to dwell "into moral depth" - the reader can do that on his own if he wants to, but he doesn't have too, because moral issues aren't the main interest of the story. There is a reason that Death Note is still a Shonen series, and not a Seinen. Shonen series aren't exactly know for their "depth". That doesn't mean that they're completely superficial, but the important part is the "action". You are supposed to sit back and enjoy the suspense. You are supposed to be on the edge of your seat guessing whether Light is going to be arrested or not. But that's all that the author intended (afaik), else the series would have run in a Seinen magazine. And imho the suspense part is really well done, at least I couldn't stop reading 
But for everybody looking for a series with depth, Death Note is not the right one. I'd recommend Monster instead or other Seinen series ^^ |
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championferret
 Posts: 765 |
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I want to stay out of debates, but I'm just going to nitpick on one thing Carl said about 'all the genisues being 18'.
L is actually in his 20s, (I think he was 24?) only Light is 18. Just my 2 cents: I hear alot of people saying they dont like Death Note because only the two central characters are actually 'characters'. I dont think this is very true...I think Souichiro (Light's father) is awesome, along with the rest of the police force (well, Matsuda isnt what I'd give as a Shining Example of Genius, but you get the point. He's probably my second favourite character at any rate) |
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maaya
Posts: 976 |
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I actually think that Soichiro is the character with the most depth in Death Note. Especially Light and L, considering they're the main characters, are extremely shallow to me. Light's character development ends after a few episodes ... and L ... we don't really know anything about him apart from being a freaky genius and really similar to Light, i.e. unscrupulous and obsessed with winning. Actually, the movie "L change the world" finally gave L a bit of a human side and some character development. |
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nargun
Posts: 925 |
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It's melodrama, soap opera. Easy narrative tricks [well-played, to be sure]. But the depth is illusory. Adding salt or sugar or MSG to a dish doesn't make it "delicious". |
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tealovertoma
Posts: 8 |
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+1 ohnoes, an anime that deals with a nihilistic and solipsistic point of view! Bad anime, how dare you do something (reasonably) orginal (in the anime world)! |
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Fear Ghoul
 Posts: 65 |
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So let me see if I understand this. The reviewer rates down Death Note simply because he disagress with the philosophical outlook on humanity and morality relating to nihilism :
"Nihilism (from the Latin nihil, nothing) is a philosophical position that argues that existence is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value." - Wikipedia I've never heard such drivvle from a reviewer in all my days. His pretence at professionalism fails to disguise his seething loathing of a nihilistic series, without thinking his own statements through to their natural conclusion. So the series is nihilistic? So what? The only non-nihilistic viewpoint uses God as a reference frame, and even then what God decides is right and wrong changes depending upon how genocidal he's feeling that day. Has the reviewer even bothered to look to real-world precedents? Justifications for intolerance, extermination, war, and terrorism abound. Hell, the anime pirating community itself is a working example of the nihilistic attitude. Or perhaps the reviewer uses his own sense of morality to judge right and wrong, in which case he should get off his high horse and realize that everybody else on this planet does the exact same thing, and is no less typified by the characters in Death Note. He criticizes the treatment of humanity as nothing higher than a herd of cattle, yet again demonstrates his appearing lack of any logical reasoning by failing to realize the truth of such a statement as it applies to real world politics and sociology. Perhaps Mr Kimlinger might have better spent his time studying science and history and then relating the two together rather than trying to uphold a failed philosophical stance. And to conclude his review, he gives a series with next to no actual animation a A-. What a joke.
I couldn't help but chuckle at this. |
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pparker
 Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
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Sorry, the weasling doesn't excuse the review.
No. Carl actually watches the anime he trashes. That said... Carl, a normally competent reviewer, really, really has a personal bug up his ass for this one and besmirches the entire critic's profession similarly. But he does apparently know bigger words. I find it hilariously ironic that he says:
Don't take it seriously, though, because this is an obvious ANN setup, a planned troll. Otherwise, why give it to him again rather than someone who might give it a fair review? The show is quite popular and entertaining, relatively clever and better than most shows, in fact better than a lot of anime. Why? It's engaging, and the animation and art production are good quality. It isn't the 58th remake of one of the 8 or 9 seminal genre shows. I never felt bored, insulted, offended, or cheated by it, intellectually or otherwise. In fact, it didn't generate any strong emotional reaction. Reality? It's about a book that falls from the sky and can kill people, and has 10-foot tall demons in it. The action flowed at a good pace. I enjoyed the characters and the suspense. On the other hand, this review did initiate some strong emotion, the same one that every mean-spirited critic gets. There's plenty of material to retort, but I found that only one was necessary:
An artistic creator can do anything they damn well please to entertain people, so screw your moral pompousness. They don't owe you education, justification, or explanation, much less agreement with your worldview. They don't even owe your their works at all. Apparently many thousands of people agree that they were entertained quite well by this series, however. Carl D- It used to be that one artistic creator was worth 100 critics. The Internet changed that ratio to 1:1000. I'm sure Carl spent several years obtaining the education and experience necessary to compose this one page that attempts to vilify the author, and to completely invalidate his creative expression as well as the contributions of hundreds of people involved in producing the two seasons of episodes that those thousands of viewers are enjoying. If the review were in any way pertaining to the entertainment value of the show, without the personal diatribe, it could be worth reading. As it is, there's no reason for anyone to read it, and every reason to not read it. It is Carl's personal, emotional reaction to the content, period. I can get "it sux" from 4chan, without wading through all the big words. |
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LordPrometheus
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I agree with dtm42 and pparker completely. I haven't yet finished Death Note, but it's done nothing but grip me from the first episode. I loved how I could actually sympathize with Light and his goals at the beginning, but then spoiler[when he kills the FBI agent, you realize what a monster he really is.] From there though, it's still an exciting chess match between Light and L.
Regardless of whether it's "nihilistic" or not, the entertainment value of this show is through the roof. To pan it for not being "realistic" is a hypocritical joke, since the list of "realistic" anime could fit on a small PostIt note. |
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braves
 Posts: 2309 Location: Puerto Rico (but living in Texas) |
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Hmm, this is pretty much the same response that Carl got when he did his previous review of DN. I was one of those who was angry when he posted that review. I thought "he just doesn't get it". But strangely enough, after finishing the series and looking back on it, I agreed more and more with his viewpoint. Not to mention that DN is pretty much a one-trick pony. There's not much replay value after you've watched the whole thing.
animenewsnetwork.com/review/death-note/dvd-6 animenewsnetwork.com/review/death-note/dvd-5 animenewsnetwork.com/review/death-note/dvd-1 As you can see, there's been multiple viewpoints on this series. So it's not like other viewpoints haven't been expressed. As to whether this is a "planned troll", that's highly suspect in my opinion. |
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dAngel
 Posts: 23 |
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I'm a little disappointed in the artwork for the boxset itself. It's dark, fairly clean and simple. The singles had some great cover art, though, and it would have been nice to have included some of it inside.
Personally, I saw DN before I was really aware of the hype, and without knowing much about it. I found it very entertaining. You know, it wasn't actually intended to be quite as deep and philosophical as some people think, but I wouldn't say it's shallow or half baked either. Yes, the series does have some nihilistic and morally grey themes, but I don't see why that's a bad thing. The ending in particular is fairly brutal (especially in the manga) and does make a statement. It's 'realistic' in the sense that Light isn't the typical flashy Shonen hero and the story doesn't take place in a fantasy setting with battles or swords - which is what I think people mean when they say this.
In the manga he's supposed to be 25, and actually I believe the author was originally going to have him be even older (and better looking). They settled on placing him in his mid 20s in order to better mirror/complement Light. When Near and Mello were being conceived, Ohba toyed with the idea of having them be L's sons. Also remember it's not actually a Seinen series even though it sort of feels like one. It ran in Shonen Jump, so considering the target demographic, the ages skewing younger isn't all that unusual. |
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pparker
Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
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Thanks for providing references that perfectly prove my point. Those only make it more suspect as to why he was chosen. And yes, that comment was my own troll, tongue in cheek and intentional. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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You want to back up this slanderous nonsense with something or can I just ban you now for lying in order to make someone you disagree with look bad? Because it's a pretty terrible thing to say about someone regardless of how much you disagree with their opinions about cartoons.
Again, utter paranoid nonsense designed to make the fact that you like the show and Carl doesn't seem 'objectively' right rather than a simple subjective difference of opinion. I seem to recall this condescending accusatory bullsh*t coming from you the last time Carl reviewed this show too; your act is getting a little tired, you might want to come up with some new material.
Viz sent him the box set, he decided to take another look at the show.
Believe it or not, this is an opinion, an entirely subjective statement, and not some kind of irrefutable fact.
Yeah, and they're going to get a variety of reactions to their work, believe it or not!
Let me add another annoying 'heh, i found this ironic and won't comment further even though my obnoxious condescending personal attack is obvious' post to this thread! In conclusion,
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doctordoom85
 Posts: 2093 |
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Honestly, this review seemed far more "under control" compared to his review of Vol. 3. Nothing in this review is as downright uncalled for as this:
"It's a streak of solipsism so extreme that the series sometimes borders on a masturbatory fantasy for every teenager who ever blithely came to the conclusion that the world was evil just because they felt disenfranchised." I think he dodged it (barely) by using the word "borders", but nevertheless, what made him write this down? Detest the series, fine, but don't tell us, people you don't even know, what goes on in our heads. "the callow pop nihilism of making a psychotic villain the hero" Almost anyone who knows how fiction works would agree that Light is the main protagonist of the series. But "hero"? When did the mangaka suddenly start narrating the story and call Light a hero? Technically, the only one who has called Light/Kira a hero (besides some naive/disturbed characters in the series) is Carl himself. How ironic. Maybe Carl realized some of this after taking another look at his review, because this review doesn't wag its finger at the audience or make objectively-incorrect statements. Get worked up over the Vol. 3 review, sure, but what's so bad about this one? He still considers the show "morally detestable", but if I had a nickel for every time I've heard "this show is vile and unholy", I'd be buying a new car. It's not really an offensive argument anymore. |
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Pippin4242
Posts: 111 |
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Well if we're going to talk about responsibility, why not give the review to someone who hasn't already demonstrated a pathological dislike for a show that they admit hits all the technical high notes?
I can understand being harsh on the ambiguous morality, but that's seriously a long way to bump down a series that the reviewer praised in every other area. Reviews are meant to be objective, unlike art, and that's what comes off as irresponsible to me. Hosting this sort of review (as well as the recent trend for summarising manga by telling the readers exactly what happens) is going to eventually damage the site's reputation. It would have been an interesting an fair response to the anime were it posted on a forum, but the reviewer is not fulfilling the duties of his privilege by posting something so personal. As an aside, I think L and Near suffer under character analysis because they don't display much emotion or normal human interaction. Near, particularly, comes off as an extremely high-functioning autistic, if you ask me. Not everybody in real life does display a lot of emotion, and their characterisations actually made them seem more real than most characters who wear their hearts on their sleeves to me. *~Pips~* |
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