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GalicianNightmare
Joined: 16 Dec 2014
Posts: 124
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Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 4:08 pm
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@Agent555 Americans by and large do not watch foreign media, so how can said citizens disapprove of said foreign content, if said content is never shown? It's not that Americans hate subs, it's just that they never experience them and why should they? The Netherlands and Walloon do not produce enough of their own content and thus need US content to fill in gaps. Since dubbing is not viable, they use subs. The US however produces virtually everything that is shown on its TV and thus does not need to air foreign shows, let alone sub them, since that is more money compared to producing your own stuff.
Same with how Japan doesn't care for American comics. It produces its own, so it doesn't need them. Ditto with its anime, although it's worth noting that American animation is more popular in Japan than anime is in America.
Secondly, what parts of "Europe" sub? Like the US, Europe is no monolithic block. The French, Italians, Spanish and Germanic countries by and large reject subtitles and dub almost everything they receive. In Spain, that is exacerbated due to its many non-Castillian languages. Poland and Russia have this weird thing called "lektors" where the original version's volume is reduced and a person speaks over the original recording.
Thirdly, there are examples of sub only content having more success than the dub in the US. Innocence's awful Go Fish release pretty much pissed off the entire fanbase of GITS. It had no dub, because according to Go Fish, "Innocence was a foreign art movie and we don't distinguish between dubs of live action art movies and dubs of art animation, so we won't dub foreign film" despite the fact that Dreamworks have non English versions on their American animated films, the fact that MOST Americans got into GITS because of the revolutionary 1995 dub AND the fact that everything else was dubbed. Despite that, it shot right to the top of the Billboard charts. The dubbed versions came out so late that people didn't care.
Not to mention Cardcaptors Sakura vs Cardcaptors. Hell, even for live action, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon did insanely well in the US and was acclaimed in virtually all fronts, despite being subbed, whilst the movie did meh in Taiwan/Hong Kong/PRC due to horrible accents and poor Mandarin from a native Cantonese speaker, apparently. That stuff annoys the Chinese.
Even so, Americans only consume anime as their choice of foreign media. It's not like we watch French films or whatever. Only anime has a chance int the US.
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Foxaika
Joined: 28 Apr 2015
Posts: 365
Location: Columbus, Ohio
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Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 5:48 pm
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GalicianNightmare wrote: |
Even so, Americans only consume anime as their choice of foreign media. It's not like we watch French films or whatever. Only anime has a chance int the US. |
Wait, are you saying there isn't a foreign film market here? That's completely untrue.
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Touma
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Colorado, USA
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Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 5:57 pm
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Foxaika wrote: | Wait, are you saying there isn't a foreign film market here? That's completely untrue. |
I definitely agree that it is not true.
I am not very interested myself, but I can see that the "Foreign Films" section at my local library is about ten times the size of the "Anime" section. And that does not include the the foreign TV shows.
As I say I am not a fan, but it seems to me that foreign films have a good following here. And those that I have seen have always been subtitled, never dubbed.
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Agent355
Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 5113
Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready...
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 12:03 am
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GalicianNightmare wrote: | @Agent555 Americans by and large do not watch foreign media, so how can said citizens disapprove of said foreign content, if said content is never shown? It's not that Americans hate subs, it's just that they never experience them and why should they? The Netherlands and Walloon do not produce enough of their own content and thus need US content to fill in gaps. Since dubbing is not viable, they use subs. The US however produces virtually everything that is shown on its TV and thus does not need to air foreign shows, let alone sub them, since tha,t is more money compared to producing your own stuff.
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That's very true, but it doesn't mean that there is no market for foreign TV shows or movies in America. Streaming services have been picking up foreign language content in spades, and shows from all over the world have been gaining a following here. TV execs response to this seems to be to produce American versions of foreign shows (The Returned=Les Revenants, for example)
GalicianNightmare wrote: | Secondly, what parts of "Europe" sub? Like the US, Europe is no monolithic block. The French, Italians, Spanish and Germanic countries by and large reject subtitles and dub almost everything they receive. In Spain, that is exacerbated due to its many non-Castillian languages. Poland and Russia have this weird thing called "lektors" where the original version's volume is reduced and a person speaks over the original recording. |
Yeah, I pointed out earlier that France has a law requiring a certain amount of French programming on their TV. Dubs count, so you will can see lots of French dubbed American TV and anime in Paris. Watching Naruto and Seinfeld in French was a trip!
GalicianNightmare wrote: | Thirdly, there are examples of sub only content having more success than the dub in the US. ... Hell, even for live action, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon did insanely well in the US and was acclaimed in virtually all fronts, despite being subbed, whilst the movie did meh in Taiwan/Hong Kong/PRC due to horrible accents and poor Mandarin from a native Cantonese speaker, apparently. That stuff annoys the Chinese. |
Crouching Tiger was dubbed in English, though, wasn't it? I'm not sure which version did better in theaters.
GalicianNightmare wrote: | Even so, Americans only consume anime as their choice of foreign media. It's not like we watch French films or whatever. Only anime has a chance in the US. |
Not sure that's true. Foreign films have a decent following in the US, they just don't show up on TV. Look out how many foreign films the Criterion Collection has released. (Not one is an anime, unfortunately)
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fuuma_monou
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 1822
Location: Quezon City, Philippines
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 12:19 am
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Agent355 wrote: | Look out how many foreign films the Criterion Collection has released. (Not one is an anime, unfortunately) |
IIRC, Akira was released as part of the Criterion Collection, but only on Laser Disc.
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NorbieH
Joined: 24 Feb 2010
Posts: 40
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 1:24 pm
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Tempest_Wing wrote: |
leafy sea dragon wrote: | So if I wanted to enjoy novels by Vladimir Nobokov, to watch movies by Federico Fellini, and to read and understand the Bible, I'd have to learn Russian, Italian, ancient Hebrew, and Latin? Are you saying it's impossible to have a well-rounded knowledge base without also being an omniglot? |
Sometimes things get lost in translation though. So yes, if one really did want to understand a work completely, they'd have to understand the language first to get all the implicit meanings, idioms, etc that would normally be lost in translation. |
What are these things in foreign languages that can't be translated in English exactly? I think the English language is quite diverse to be able to translate "Implicit meanings, idioms, etc" from another language. Only a lazy or incompetent translator would use such an excuse.
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Polycell
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 7:10 pm
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Anything can be "translated" with enough explanation and notes; in the context of an actual work, things can and do end up falling on the floor because they just don't translate; this is especially true of cultural context.
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Eigengrau
Joined: 09 May 2015
Posts: 105
Location: Belgium
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 5:39 am
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Agent355 wrote: | Yeah, I pointed out earlier that France has a law requiring a certain amount of French programming on their TV. Dubs count, so you will can see lots of French dubbed American TV and anime in Paris. |
I'm afraid you're being too kind there: the law states (and it's by no means restricted to France, other European countries have similar protectionist laws) that a set percentage of tv programming should be created and produced in France, so dubbed imports do not count. I saw the results for myself when that law was first introduced and it was one of the contributing factors which ended the omnipresence of anime on French tv at that time.
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