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Answerman - Why Does Fanservice For Girls Get So Much Blowback?

I think part of what makes "female-oriented" fanservice more palatable for me atm is that its more egregious elements haven't (yet) become ubiquitous in the way things associated with "fan-service" anime have. Things like Yaoi hands & "I'm gonna make you like me whether you want it or not" relationships have not become the default for male characters in the same way gainax boobs, dislocated hips (to make the knees permanently turn inward while still keeping a gap between the thighs) & that stupid dainty run thing have for female characters regardless of personality or context. Some intense man to man stares & panning shots of a guys detailed abs lasting a little longer than they might need to are nothing compared to what has happened to default female character design over the last 10-20+ years.

I'm almost convinced that all the hatred is just the continuation of bagging out females, than about the content itself. That anything females really enjoy, is gross based on the fact that females enjoy it.

What pass as a joke in Japan can be offensive in the West
Panty shots, falling in female boobs, get lost and end in the lady WC is a joke that never gets old in Japan and but in the West considered offensive and cliche.

Also, if the fanservice has absolutely no relevance to the story as a whole, and you have absolutely no interest in it, why not just ignore it? It's there to broaden the target demographic just a little bit more and can be mutually exclusive to the other aspects of the show.

You do realize this is not where it ends? Just drooling? Have you ever been touched inappropriately without consent by a woman? Ever needed to deal with a drunk woman on the street who took a "notice" of you? Ever needed to worry about the drink you are having? Sexually charged comments/e-mails/messages from strangers? Maybe anything more than that? Don't think so.
People who see other people as "pieces of meat" treat them accordingly.

"Oh! He raped me! Well I'm just so pretty he couldn't help himself. I should be proud of how pretty I am!"

More to the point, if I wanted to whack off, I wouldn't be reading an action manga. I'd be reading or watching some porn. So why are my action manga constantly trying to persuade me that it's time to whack off?

Aaand to the point. The majority of anime girls are cute, it's a standard we are used to see, but we usually draw the line between "adorable" and "hot", even though the basic characteristics of design are the same, it's mostly related to how it's presented. Easy example, Lucky Star characters are 17 years old but unless you go find porn of it you don't get the impression of "hey! hot girls!" Reversely, Saint Seiya characters are 14 years old at best but they look like 18 years old and they may seem like some hot dudes.

This is a medium where it's common to have people slaughtered left and right, tortured and toyed with and usually people would praise it for being edgy and cool. Anime was never kid friendly from the beginning. But still can't have that sexual harassment thing. Nope, no medium can have that. Everyone loves them violence but loses their s*it for anything sexual. Just an example of double standard.

I agree 100% with DmonHiro. If people don't like Echi, don't watch it. If there are some fanservice in non-fanservice shows, ignore it. Sometimes there are some unnecessary almost rapey scenes in shows that i like and what i do is ignore them.

EDIT: Having thought about it a little more, I think fanservice in shows that aren't specifically about fanservice (or raunchy shows where fanservice would make sense) is also a sign of bad writing, because the writer/mangaka doesn't always understand how to use it effectively. Of course, it's not the only reason someone could be frustrated with so much fanservice, but it could be an element of that frustration.

Just how I feel really. I don't care much about what others watch so long as they keep making things I enjoy. And even if they stopped making what I enjoy, I would complain about the absence of that, not the fact that something else exists. I guess it's not a big deal to me. I did enjoy joking around with a friend about "not being gay enough to watch Free!" though, that was fun for a bit. But seriously being upset by it existing? Seems silly to me, so long as it's not preventing you from watching what you enjoy.

But dismiss the case as nothing all you want, vaginas and penises are not equally censored in Japan. Women sexuality is publicly discouraged everywhere you look in Japan and for a simple example all you have to do is pick up any hentai manga and see how the word for vagina in text is literally censored to the point of obscurity, but the word for penis is completely free to be used as much as anyone could want. That is not equality, that is trying to remove it from their very culture.

Female characters are constantly violated and objectified and it's easily brushed off or played for laughs. Where are the men comparing penis sizes constantly? Where are the characters falling on a male's crotch? Where is any of this? If this is so common with females, it should be as common with males but it isn't

Female characters are constantly violated and objectified and it's easily brushed off or played for laughs. Where are the men comparing penis sizes constantly? Where are the characters falling on a male's crotch? Where is any of this? If this is so common with females, it should be as common with males but it isn't

I always saw it as guys and gals are different so their fanservice is different. If guys watch fanservice to fulfill a fantasy then a genderswapped version of the same events wouldn't fulfill female fantasies, cause women can go out and get sex much easier than guys can. What women can't go out and do is force two guys to have sex with each other, which is why so much female fanservice is yaoibait

When it comes to het/straight fanservice, women really just want to be able to ogle hot guys and have a female character have sexuality and actual agency. It's not inexistent, but it is pretty much niche and rare with mainstream anime.

My diet strictly consists of shounen mainstream anime and I have seen the complete opposite. Men are far more likely to be seen naked or with less clothing than girls are. Especially when it comes to hot springs. You'll almost always see guys naked or showing off their butt but females at best show off bare shou!ders with some cleavage. You rarely if ever see female butt in onsen scenes in mainstream anime. Scenes like these are extremely common for male characters but never females.

https://youtu.be/vOansi3cLKs

Are you sure you're not thinking of all those late night otaku stuff? I only watch mainstream anime and it is FILLED with naked dudes instead of women.

Unfortunately, authority institutions in Japan tend to be not only run by mostly men but very very old men (like 70+ old). So the pace of changes (if any) in the influential echelons of Japanese society go quite slowly (the rule of thumb seems to be it takes Japan a couple decades following global trends).

enurtsol wrote:

Unfortunately, authority institutions in Japan tend to be not only run by mostly men but very very old men (like 70+ old). So the pace of changes (if any) in the influential echelons of Japanese society go quite slowly (the rule of thumb seems to be it takes Japan a couple decades following global trends).

That makes me wonder if they ever get shocked and nervous when the rest of the world is doing something that they're not, considering Japan has a culture of conformity and fitting in.

A lot of what your describing wouldn't be considered fanservice depending on how the guys are drawn. If they're the simple noodle, non-detailed anime body it is most definitely not fanservice, which a lot of shonen anime tend to do. Free was extremely detailed and since it was around water, wet and glistening with seriously detail given to the muscles.

littlegreenwolf wrote:

A lot of what your describing wouldn't be considered fanservice depending on how the guys are drawn. If they're the simple noodle, non-detailed anime body it is most definitely not fanservice, which a lot of shonen anime tend to do. Free was extremely detailed and since it was around water, wet and glistening with seriously detail given to the muscles.

Now you're just moving the goalposts. You can't just arbitrarily decided what is and isn't fanservice. Plenty of people find those scenes appealing enough to take screencaps and videos and draw fanart of them. Fact of the matter is you're far more likely to see males naked and sexualized than females in mainstream stuff. Complain about otaku anime all you want, but mainstream stuff is a whole nother story.

Heheheheh contrary to some may believe, I've actually not much problem with fanservice - the more the merrier!

Where there's issue is when people try to justify it as some sort of enlightenment for the advancement of humankind.

Despite false western perceptions, the world is not in agreement on many things. One of those major pesky things that my country (USA) tends to forget, is that most of the world mistreats women to some degree or other.

Do you really think these two images are comparable to these two?

For the Free! screens, the second screenshot is even one not as intended to be as blatantly sexualized fanservice as the scene of the previous screen, so even at Free!'s more mild moments of (light) nudity, it is more fanservice-y than any of the shonen shows. The point is, the mainstream shows aren't trying to be fanservice-y to a female audience. That makes the difference.

Btw, cherrypicking things that have very little relevance isn't really proof that Japan is a terrible patriarchal country.

And Japan really is really in front of the rest of the world in so many things, which is why it has good education rates, very low crime rates, etc.

That's not moving the goalposts at all. The point is people have to draw fanart to make up for the lack of mainstream fanservice of male characters.

Lets do a comparison.

Yes, there are naked guys in anime, but if you compare their screencaps/scenes with those of a female character and then the guys with shots from Free!, you can easily see which is at least intended as fanservice, and that makes a huge difference.

Do you really think these two images are comparable to these two?

For the Free! screens, the second screenshot is even one not as intended to be as blatantly sexualized fanservice as the scene of the previous screen, so even at Free!'s more mild moments of (light) nudity, it is more fanservice-y than any of the shonen shows. The point is, the mainstream shows aren't trying to be fanservice-y to a female audience. That makes the difference.

By making note of that detail, no one here is moving the goalpost, but instead, pointing out where the goalpost always was and why that is the issue.

Again, nudity alone is not inherently sexual or fanservice-y, but most female nudity in mainstream and shonen stuff is meant to be and that is not the case with the guys. I find the male nudity in One Piece appealing all the time (okay, when it's the Monster Trio and a few others, not everyone lol), but it is usually not being done to cater to anyone in a sexualized, fanservice way. (Maybe in a power fantasy kind of way, but not for others not straight male to ogle.)

Do I ogle it? Yes. Is it made for me? No, but I'll take what I can get. (They're starting to with the merch, but that isn't most of the anime or much of the manga.)

Then compare the fanservice you claim there is in mainstream shows to actual Ecchi anime like Highschool DxD, just because Nami has big breasts, it doesn't mean she's there for fanservice.