View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
|
Tuor_of_Gondolin
Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 3524
Location: Bellevue, WA
|
Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:14 pm
|
|
|
Honestly, I'm not even sure if they were human, and not just re-creations of the Scrub Coral. I definitely don't think they were regular humans who just happened to want to spend eternity hanging out inside the Scrub Coral. I'd bet all of them were involved in accidents relating to the Scrub Coral or Corellians in general.
|
Back to top |
|
|
tarheel91
Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Posts: 128
|
Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:22 pm
|
|
|
lesterf1020 wrote: | It seems I was watching a different show with the same name.
In the show I watched the scub coral on gaining sentience tried to reach out and communicate with all life. However, the only way they knew to do that was assimilation. This became a serious problem for humanity and eventually chased them off the planet. The scub coral left with thousands of years of nothing to communicate with finally realized that communication via assimilation was counterproductive.
When the humans returned the scub coral was overjoyed but they still only had assimilation as a means of communication and decided to explore other options to see if it was possible to communicate and coexist with humanity. Eureka, Sakuya and Gonzy were some of those attempts. I suspect the desperation disease was another phenomenon that the scub coral explored. The situation reached crisis as a result of the limit of questions and Dewey’s final solution annihilation crusade. The scub coral started to think that survival and coexisting with humans were mutually exclusive.
In the end no final solution was found. Half of all life largely made up of scub coral and some humans who were living inside the scubs went to another dimension to try and figure out this coexistence thing and the other half of life largely made up of humans and some scub coral stayed here to do the same. This postponed the limit of questions business and both sides were supposed to meet up at some point and compare notes on their solutions.
That’s the show I watched. It was a pretty cool show. What you guys watched sounds interesting too though. |
Never have I typed "QFT" with such enthusiasm. QFT.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Unicorn_Blade
Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 1153
Location: UK
|
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:34 pm
|
|
|
poilk92 wrote: | so they were peaceful but completely passive. I think you just have a different philosophy than those people but its like being mad at monks for not solving the wall-street crash in america. In their current state the fate of the physical world has nothing to do with them. Its a long standing tradition of fiction that enlightened people don't give two sh!ts about normal people |
This is why I said, this 'evolution' was actually a fall of humanity and reducing it to a passive mass unable to act and think for themselves.
|
Back to top |
|
|
poilk92
Joined: 07 Aug 2010
Posts: 433
Location: Long Beach California
|
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:43 pm
|
|
|
Unicorn_Blade wrote: |
This is why I said, this 'evolution' was actually a fall of humanity and reducing it to a passive mass unable to act and think for themselves. |
since there is no evidence to support or refute that in the anime all I can say is. Thats not the impression I got at all
Maybe its because I'm in the school of thought that says the next step of human evolution is being thought without corporeal forms so I'm biased. But they seemed perfectly happy and still in control of their own will. In fact I got the impression that the library was just the shape that the dimension took so that renton and eureka could comprehend it. When in reality it was some sort of shapeless realm that housed all the knowledge of humanity and the coral (and what is the physical representation of a store house of knowledge if not a library)
|
Back to top |
|
|
RogueJedi86
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 501
|
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:50 pm
|
|
|
poilk92 I do have to ask how you think humans would evolve into energy beings. Gradually fading away into energy over millions of years? Losing your corporeal form naturally just doesn't seem likely.
|
Back to top |
|
|
poilk92
Joined: 07 Aug 2010
Posts: 433
Location: Long Beach California
|
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:06 pm
|
|
|
RogueJedi86 wrote: | poilk92 I do have to ask how you think humans would evolve into energy beings. Gradually fading away into energy over millions of years? Losing your corporeal form naturally just doesn't seem likely. |
no, people would do it on purpose. Integrate with computers and all that
|
Back to top |
|
|
RogueJedi86
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 501
|
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:52 pm
|
|
|
How do you breed humans with computers? Doesn't that create Skynet? Losing your body seems more like something that would be done artificially after we're born, like with the Coralians.
|
Back to top |
|
|
poilk92
Joined: 07 Aug 2010
Posts: 433
Location: Long Beach California
|
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:54 pm
|
|
|
...
|
Back to top |
|
|
Unicorn_Blade
Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 1153
Location: UK
|
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:48 am
|
|
|
poilk92 wrote: |
Unicorn_Blade wrote: |
This is why I said, this 'evolution' was actually a fall of humanity and reducing it to a passive mass unable to act and think for themselves. |
since there is no evidence to support or refute that in the anime all I can say is. Thats not the impression I got at all
Maybe its because I'm in the school of thought that says the next step of human evolution is being thought without corporeal forms so I'm biased. But they seemed perfectly happy and still in control of their own will. In fact I got the impression that the library was just the shape that the dimension took so that renton and eureka could comprehend it. When in reality it was some sort of shapeless realm that housed all the knowledge of humanity and the coral (and what is the physical representation of a store house of knowledge if not a library) |
So it all comes to the same thing- the end of humanity as we know it. I would still argue those people had no more will at all. They were just a mass of 'will-less' people, who had no more needs, no more feelings, who left their homes and families without regret to pursue a vague dream of merging with the coral. I thought that there is quite a lot of evidence to prove that this is what coral wai aiming for, and from its perspective, obviously it was a good thing, since it allowed it to coexist with peple and communicate freely. For humanity however, that was the end of freedom and beginning of something that turned into a world that reminds me of that of Texhnolyze.
It might be some sort of evolution, but a step for the worse, that is just my opinion- I value my rights to have and express my opinions rather than being forced into some sort of uniform mauld and loose everything that makes me who I am. No one says that evolution must bring about changes for good.
|
Back to top |
|
|
RogueJedi86
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 501
|
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:58 pm
|
|
|
Why would you think the people inside had no free will? Because they were happy? Maybe they were just happy. The common depictions of people in Heaven depict them as happy, does that mean the afterlife saps your free will too? If you're happy, you're less apt to be angry and opinionated about everything. Think more like Buddhist monks with their meditation and being one with the world, which seems to work since the Voderac were basically Buddhists.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Unicorn_Blade
Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 1153
Location: UK
|
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:03 pm
|
|
|
But the Vodarak were still acting and fighting (to some extent)- they cared about each other and they tried to protect their religion and culture from being destroyed. People in the library were not. They sat on their butts and read books, although the world they came from was about to be destroyed, obviously not seeing any links between their 'superior' state and poor humanity struggling to survive. And they did not give a damn about their families and friends, etc, who were still alive on the planet. But yeah, they were (selfishly) happy...
If evolution is supposed to back up evolution of the kind, this evolution was killing it.
|
Back to top |
|
|
poilk92
Joined: 07 Aug 2010
Posts: 433
Location: Long Beach California
|
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:40 pm
|
|
|
well once a Buddhist reaches enlightenment they would no longer inter fear with the rest of the world... But this conversation is going no where because you are just saying "this is the way it is despite me having no evidence" and you wont discuss other possibilities at all
|
Back to top |
|
|
Unicorn_Blade
Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 1153
Location: UK
|
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:36 pm
|
|
|
There is evidence, which is what we see in the show, it is of course your choice not to see it.
|
Back to top |
|
|
poilk92
Joined: 07 Aug 2010
Posts: 433
Location: Long Beach California
|
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:44 pm
|
|
|
ok I will bite. Prove to me that they have lost their free will (and seeming like they don't care about things that are important to you doesn't count)
|
Back to top |
|
|
Unicorn_Blade
Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 1153
Location: UK
|
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:46 am
|
|
|
Carrying about the good of the civilisation is not what 'is important to me' but what lays in best interest of everyone, including those poor 'people' in the library- that is if we still count them as humans, I would not be so sure anymore. So please dont make is look as if it was my personal cruisade. Those people have no free will, as a matter of fact, they already (or at least most of them) lost all that connected them to our world.
Prove me otherwise.
I dont really feel like elaborating, since I only get one liners from you with not many arguments that would suport your point of view...
|
Back to top |
|
|
|