Forum - View topicWhat determines if an anime is butchered or not when it is licensed?
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Chiibi
 Posts: 4829 |
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Ugh, I KNEW I was going to get my head bitten off for that. I wasn't talking about voice actors in GENERAL, I was talking about Laura Bailey ONLY. She didn't sound any different as Sana than Tooru. Seriously, WHAT flexibility? Then again, I couldn't tolerate the dub for more than a single episode. So maybe she got better but it's not worth my time to find out. I like Kodocha's sub and ONLY the sub. There were many more problems with the dub than just Laura. I didn't like ANYBODY'S voices and I didn't like them kiddifying the script when it was completely unnecessary. |
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Hitokiri Kenshin
Posts: 291 |
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Ok, I have to ask, why is it so bad that in dubs of anime it's such a bad thing that a character sounds similar to a different one the actor played? Was anyone angry that many of Clancy Brown's characters sound similar to Lex Luthor? Or that Lindsey Naegle sounds pretty much the same as Charlotte Pickles? |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4829 |
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In this case, I just don't like it because Sana and Tooru are too different and if they don't sound any different that makes no sense to me. ._. Will you guys just please accept that I hate Kodocha's dub more than any Funi dub because of VARIOUS problems, not just one? >_> |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6874 Location: Kazune City |
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I think the chief determiner should be, "No original/uncut version is made available." Because for many of the heavily altered/re-written dubs out there, the original subtitled version is available right there on the same discs; the dubbed/edited version is merely an option that's not forced upon any consumer. So for instance, 4Kids' One Piece was a butchering, but I wouldn't say that Funi's Sgt. Frog was, since the subbed version was there on the discs. 4Kids' OP forced consumers to to set sail for the Grand Line and become pirates if they wanted the original version. Funi's Sgt. Frog and others did not.
Shin-chan? Yeah, that'd qualify as butchering. ADV's Ghost Stories dub? Not butchering, original was still very much available on the discs. Some claim that ADV should've made a "straight" dub as well, but I have to believe that the Super Milk-chan multi-dub experience showed that the "ultra-purist dub fan" market was a slim one indeed. Other "butchering" characteristics I'd consider, beyond "original version not available," would be: * Significant rewrites to the dub script, character renaming, censoring/softening of crude or controversial content. * Excessive Americanization, of the "pretend the show takes place somewhere else" variety -- non-translating sign overlays and text erasure, place renaming, currency changes. * Video edits that add to or subtract from the total runtime; dropping episodes, editing 2 or more episodes into fewer episodes, re-arranging episode orders.
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Chiibi
Posts: 4829 |
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But I'm pretty sure there are Shin-chan DVDs that have the original version. o.o I swear I saw a boxset at Best Buy a few months ago.
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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I assumed they were dub-only DVDs because of all the video edits, and the fact they air the episodes out of order. |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4829 |
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Hmmm
*checks Amazon* ....aw, yeah, you're right. D: Chiibi does not approve. (even though she likes the dub) You should provide BOTH. |
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DomonX2
 Posts: 232 Location: Neo Toronto, Neo Canada |
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Super Sentai was an animation? Really? Other than that, I mostly agree. DBZ's dub wasn't butchered as it was bad. If you're talking about the Funi 1996-1998 dub, that was just bad. Yes it was edited to the next dimension and back, but most of the characters had their names retained and so on. The VAing apart from McNeil and the Ginyu Special Corps SUCKED. The 1999 dub is just a mess, but then again I don't blame Funimation/AB Groupe for what they did. Bruce Faulconer also sucked as well.
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Exaar
 Posts: 279 Location: Delaware |
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To me, it really depends on your definition of butchered. Well, first let me say without a doubt that what determines whether an anime is going to undergo significant changes during the licensing process is the companies doing the licensing, generally motivated by profit - they want it to appeal to as wide an audience as possible so they can make money off of it. That's why they do it. Whether or not that decision is correct (from either point of view of money or artistic integrity) is a different issue.
Personally, I've never been one to take exception to changes to a script. In fact, if it is done WELL, I am all for the English version of an anime being completely re-written to flow more naturally. I will never understand how some people prefer literal translations that sound extremely bad when spoken in English over a dub which may take liberties with the dialogue but flows much more naturally. To me, the latter is infinitely superior, as long as it preserves the basic gist of the plot and dialogue. The actual words used are irrelevant and should be changed to what flows/sounds the best in the language they are being spoken in. This includes changing of references and expressions to be ones the local audience will appreciate. The flip side of the coin is the rare cases (many of which were cited in this thread) where a show is completely changed - episodes cut or re-edited or switched around in order, plot points changed, characters re-named, etc etc. I'm kind of on the fence about this sort of thing - if it is done well, and the final product is a perfectly watchable and entertaining (albeit different) product, then I am ok with it. To me, whether or not it is accurate is secondary to whether or not it is entertaining. If they butcher the hell out of a show but come out with a decent cut of steak, then I'm all for it. However, if they mangle it and leave you with nothing but gristle, then yeah.. let's not do that. |
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Jon182
Posts: 105 |
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What determines if an anime gets butchered or not, is respect, or lack thereof. If the people behind the studio respect the original material enough, they'll try not to butcher the series. If they don't care, you end up with something like the Fox run of Escaflowne.
I still remember the story of Hayao Miyazaki and the samurai sword. To their credit, the studios that have worked with Miyazaki have tried not to cut, or alter anything since Nausicaa. In my opinion that shows a level of respect for the original work. I understand of course that not every director/anime has the clout of Studio Ghibli. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8464 Location: Penguinopolis |
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I wonder why licensors buy licenses for shows they then change. If they don't think they can sell the show as-is, why license it at all? By changing it, it ceases to be the show they licensed in the first place.
"Hey, we licensed Crayon Shin-chan!" "Wonderful. How is the dub?" "Completely rewritten from the original script!" "Uh... but why?" "Americans wouldn't be interested in the original thing." "Then why license it?" "ABORTION JOKES EVERYWHERE! YOU SHOULD BE WATCHING!" |
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EricJ
 Posts: 876 |
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For most of the late 90's/early 00's, anime fans bragging about bringing Crayon Shin-Chan over was like Disney fans bragging about wanting Song of the South on disk: You wouldn't actually watch it or want to buy it for itself, but seems to fun to brag "Aw, man! They'd NEVER bring that over here! American companies are too chicken! C'mon, Funi, how about a whole uncut boxset! Let's start twenty petitiions!" (Just to show off that you're cool enough to have heard of it. 
And if said reason happens to be "Legendary shock value without ever having seen an episode in their lives", that pretty well made Adult Swim's saliva drool, even if they personally hated most normal anime's guts. Operative term, be careful what you brag about. Me, I only knew Shin-chan from the annoying kid who pesters Chibi-Usa in the Sailor Moon S episode, and could safely pass on the fan-bragging for show.) |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4829 |
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To me, an anime isn't butchered unless scenes have been cut or censored.
If they just want to change the script to make it funnier/easier for American audiences to understand, I don't really have a problem with that. BUT if the company doesn't provide the original version, that's definitely butchering because you're not giving the fans the show the way it was meant to be seen. |
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Hitokiri Kenshin
Posts: 291 |
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Some shows have no market to be released in Japanese in the States. Take Superbook and Flying House for example. I don't know what was taken out of their US broadcasts and their dubs haven't aged well, but I'm pretty sure no one wants to watch them in Japanese. Or if some did out of curiosity not knowing what they were about, I think a few minutes in they'd go "Ack!" and turn it off. |
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dhochoy
Posts: 13 |
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My criteria of anime butchering via licensing isn't necessarily being horrible but taking the anime into a radically different approach so it can appeal to the target audience rather than being authentic to the original source material as possible.
EX: Dragon Ball Z, One Piece (hell, most dubs by 4kids but OP the most), Sailor Moon, Tokyo Mew Mew. The point of dubbing to bring a visual facet to foreign regions so I see changing stuff up as a sign of bad dubbing. My advice is just translate the series so the audience can view it, not "improve" it. |
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