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Hoenheim wrote:

Saying "it's crap by any standards" and saying the psychological aspect of the series was not the point is, well... wrong. It's not crap by my standards; so are my standards wrong comapred to your's? I just took a different outlook on the series and preffered the psyhological aspect to the mecha aspect and all of that. People can get different types of enjoyment out of Evangelion, one of which you got and one of which other people (like me) got. The fact you enjoyed it in a different way doesn't make us wrong.

I'm not a mecha fan myself, and I prefer character-driven stories, but what I actually did enjoy about Evangelion was its storyline which had a lot of strings to it, I enjoyed trying to sort out the mysteries, those are the type of anime that interest me most and I guess through all that I just wasn't paying attention to the characters because I wasn't connecting with them.

The dialogue in the last couple of episodes was nowhere near as psychologically stimulating to me as the movie was. The series ending wasn't making me think, it was making me sleepy. It just didn't do it for me, and what pisses me off about being on that side of the argument is that in the Eva fandom world I have two options:

1. Force myself to appreciate an ending that just wasn't appealing to me.

2. Stick with my original opinion and get flamed for it like I am now.

First of all, the people who made this series did something right. Because everybody is still talking and debating about the show over 10 years after the show was made. Open endings are the best endings because it leads to the talks like the ones going on in this thread. saying the psychological aspect of the series was not the point is stupid since throughout the entire series, they focused basically only on the characters psychological problems.

cheezisgoooood, you're not getting flamed for your opinion. In fact, you flamed everyone else by immediately dismissing opinions by saying the ending was crap by any standards. It's essentially asserting that your opinion is the only one that matters--it isn't. People are just disagreeing with you here.

And I agree wtih b214, Gainax and Anno did something right with both endings they presented if they are still cause for discussion among anime fans. RahXephon ended nearly four years ago, but there's little discussion there aside from, "What happened? Oh, OK." Heck, Lain and Boogiepop Phantom are deeper and more confusing than Eva, but they hardly get a glance. Eva sparks debate, gets people unfamiliar with it interested via that word-of-mouth, it sells again, and then there's more debate. Heck, in that sense alone, it was brilliant.

Personally, I like both the television and movie endings. I'd have to definitely give it more to the movie ending in that it just provided more, but I would have been fairly contented with the television ending. But the movie ending had something going with the fact that it was uncensored, longer, had a bigger budget, and Anno's spite for a number of the whiney fans. Can't beat that.

GospelX wrote:

cheezisgoooood, you're not getting flamed for your opinion. In fact, you flamed everyone else by immediately dismissing opinions by saying the ending was crap by any standards.

That isn't flaming Anime hyper

. That's wording my opinion wrong I guess, since for some reason it pissed you guys off.

I apologize for it but it's getting out of hand if you think I was insulting people with it. I guess after reading this post I gotta clear some things up before the flaming continues.

1. I don't think my opinion is the only opinion that matters. I guess I gotta be more careful when I type because I obviously used three words in a sentence that set people off, "by any standards."

Hoenheim wrote:

saying the psychological aspect of the series was not the point is, well... wrong….People can get different types of enjoyment out of Evangelion, one of which you got and one of which other people (like me) got.

cheezisgoooood wrote:

…Do I think that was the whole point of the series?

2. I never said the psychological parts of the series weren't essential to it, I said it wasn't the only thing the show had going for it. The plot, the intrigue, the mysteries, the dark end-of-the-world symbolism...they were also essential to the series. There are many aspects of this series that can be enjoyed, just like he said, but the series ending didn't do it for me because even if it was Anno's idea to make the ending like that, it only focused on one thing in the series, and that was characters. The points of interest in the series for me were being left unconcluded. Didn't like that too much.

I never even finished the last two episodes of the TV series, but I also definitely didn't like it much. Sure, it focused on the psychological aspects of the characters but Eureka 7 did a whole lot better job of doing that than Evangelion. Some (or rather most) of the cause and effect behaviors of all the characters, especially Shinji, was completely incomprehensible. Anyone who claims to have understood even half of what was spoken there will be assumed to be a professional psychologist by me, if the kind of mentality shown in Evangelion is valid to begin with. It's not very praiseworthy if nobody can actually figure out what's been said, only that something has been said.

Yes I was very dissappointed. I bought the boxed set, you know, reading all the reviews of it being the best anime ever, or maybe even the best thing in existence. Well, for me, it turned out the exact opposite. I didn't even finish the series, but I did watch the ending after quitting at ep 20 something. It was horrible, and irritated me. I never put the series back into my dvd ever again. I can see why some people don't get the ending, or the rest of the series. I felt it was completely random and had no point what so ever. And no moral of the story either :/

Above that, it had pointless bits of fanservice. Ok I don't know what people's general opinion of fanservice is, but here's my idea of it. Those times where it shows you shinji's teacher (that one woman he lived with) kinda tilted towards shinji at the table which was full of beer. It showed you this back view, so u like see her bottom and some of her chest sagging down etc. Stuff like that, not nudity, just semi-perverted views/poses that are really not necessary in the slightest. I know people watch worse stuff, but what the hell, not everyone wants this sort of thing popping up where anyone around them can see it. Or in front of their kids/parents. If this is really the grand daddy of anime, then maybe that's why anime has a bad rep.

Oh yeah, and I didn't find a single character in the series interesting. Not like most other anime's I've seen where you can identify, or admire at least one of the characters.

Bottom line, I think this series is overrated to the max. I can't really understand what people see in it, and doubt I ever will. For me, it had absolutely no entertainment value, from sound to animation. Seriously...

cheezisgoooood wrote:

Hoenheim wrote:

saying the psychological aspect of the series was not the point is, well... wrong….People can get different types of enjoyment out of Evangelion, one of which you got and one of which other people (like me) got.

cheezisgoooood wrote:

…Do I think that was the whole point of the series?

2. I never said the psychological parts of the series weren't essential to it, I said it wasn't the only thing the show had going for it. The plot, the intrigue, the mysteries, the dark end-of-the-world symbolism...they were also essential to the series. There are many aspects of this series that can be enjoyed, just like he said, but the series ending didn't do it for me because even if it was Anno's idea to make the ending like that, it only focused on one thing in the series, and that was characters. The points of interest in the series for me were being left unconcluded. Didn't like that too much.

Sorry, but I didn't get that message from you're first post which is why I said that. To me it seemed like you didn't count the psychological aspect as a valid part of it, but now you're saying you just didn't like it which I see no problem with.

OnePieceFANatic,

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Well, for me, it turned out the exact opposite.

Do you mean "it's the worst thing in existance", or just that you didn't like it? It probably doesn't really matter which, but if it's the former, I could point you towards some horrible shows which may seem worse than this.

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I didn't even finish the series, but I did watch the ending after quitting at ep 20 something. It was horrible, and irritated me.

If episode 20 something doesn't =episode 24, I would ask that you at least watch the episodes that you didn't the first time around, although most of the later episodes are based on the psychalogical element.

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I felt it was completely random and had no point what so ever. And no moral of the story either :/

I actually felt exactly the same way watching it the first time, then I thought about it, and watched through it again, and it actually made sense to me after a little bit of thinking on the matter, and rewatching. There are some parts early on, and later on which you catch, and they make sense wonce you've seen the whole series.

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it had pointless bits of fanservice.

I agree with you on this. It did have seemingly pointless amounts of it, but since it's stated in the next episode previews that there'll be fanservice, I would guess that the fanservice may have been for one of two reasons. Either it was thrown in there for comedic value(I thought the pointless fanservice was kinda funny, since some people seem to go crazy for a picture of Rei), or in production they figured that since it was a shounen series, that fanservice would help it be more popular(and ultimately get higher TV ratings and merchandise sales). As much as you or I may dislike it, the fact is that the "sex sells" saying is true.

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If this is really the grand daddy of anime, then maybe that's why anime has a bad rep.

Well, you have a semi valid point. Anime does get a bad rep because of fanservice, mostly hentai though. The problem is that in Japan, the culter is a lot different, and they don't have as obsessive censoring over there. While in America, the media, and numerous parent and christian groups go bonkers(so to speak) when ever the slightest bit of sexual inuendo comes up. At the same time, I believe America is a bit more lenient on the blood and violence on network TV. (This is stuff that I've heard, and seen little bits of. If I'm wrong on any of it, please correct it.) Besides all of that, I think Eva is a little too dark and deep/confusing(depending on your point of view) for a little kid, as for parents, I can pretty much guarantee that they've seen worse(unless they're devote christians or something).

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I didn't find a single character in the series interesting. Not like most other anime's I've seen where you can identify, or admire at least one of the characters.

Finding characters interesting is something strictly up to the individual in question, so I'll leave that. As for finding a character that you can identify with or admire, I really don't know if there's a person on this planet that wouldn'tbe able to identify with at least one the characters(I, sad as it is, can relate to some of the aspects of Shinji Ikari), admiring is a whole other thing all together.

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For me, it had absolutely no entertainment value, from sound to animation. Seriously...

Are you saying you didn't find the fight scenes, the dramatic scenes, the psychological scenes, or any other part entertaining? If you didn't like the sound or animation, you could always try to borrow/rent the platinum DVDs from someone that has them(the animation and sound, along with some dialog where really improved). "Seriously...", what?

Thanks. Cool

Okay, first let me say I was somewhat let down by the final two episodes. I really enjoyed them, but the final scene with everyone clapping felt stupid and contrived.

Saying that, I loved The End of Evangelion. I really loved it. And it did answer a lot of the questions I had about the series. The first time I watched the entire series, I was left with a number of unanswered questions. But then I decided to watch it all at once. If you felt that questions were unanswered, I encourage you to watch the series again, perhaps all in one sitting, like I did. I did this and realized that Hideaki Anno actually does answer most of questions and tie up most of the loose ends. It really starts to make sense. As for the ending of The End of Evangelion, well, I think the point is for it to be ambiguous and left open to interpretation.

And after watching The End of Evangelion, and rewatching Episodes 25 and 26, I found them to be worthy endings.

quakeaddict wrote:

Okay, first let me say I was somewhat let down by the final two episodes. I really enjoyed them, but the final scene with everyone clapping felt stupid and contrived.

Saying that, I loved The End of Evangelion. I really loved it. And it did answer a lot of the questions I had about the series...
...As for the ending of The End of Evangelion, well, I think the point is for it to be ambiguous and left open to interpretation.

For convenience I'll agree with this view, but I've only watched the series once so a rewatch might be in order. The spoiler[relationship between Yui and the clones of Rei, the significance of the markings on Gendo's hand, the debated realness of the Rei-with-toast world and most importantly how humans, angels and Adam/Lilith supervene on each other] are all things I've yet to work out for myself. I'll have to admit that I don't really want to watch the whole thing again however, mostly because of the mecha element. The earlier angel battles were mere filler to me (but admittedly it was through seeing the characters going about their jobs in the less important episodes that made EoE so difficult to stomach ergo so memorable).
Aside from Eva I've watched GunBuster and two thirds of RahXephon, and likewise with these series I found the actual robot action sequences the least appealing element. Whilst I'll admit that aspects such as the music during action sequences played a part -in many cases I feel the action itself is sufficient to captivate the viewer without the need for musical accompaniment- but watching big animated robots fighting never quite matches the maturity of the character drama or the introspective metaphysics in my opinion
For this reason I'm don't plan on watching any mecha stuff once I've finished 'Xephon.

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I'll disagree strongly with anyone who says the ending was "good"

The Tv series ending was slightly dissapointing because you could see where the budget had started to run thin quite clearly but I think EoE was a classic. I suppose if you didn't feel particularly attached to the characters in the first place then you couldnt begin to enjoy Evangelion. Death and rebirth I felt were not needed and i seldom re watch them but i will disagree on EoE being a bad movie. I've never seen some of the stuff done in that movie done anywhere else and spoiler[neither have i seen the death of a main character/s handleded with quite so much grace. ]

One thing i will say though is that evangelion 1:0 you are not alone has done an absolutly fantastic job so far with regards to portraying the characters and i feel that this will go along way to redeeming itself to the dissapointed evangelion fans.

To be honest, I was disappointed with Evangelion, it never was one of my favourites. In fact, I did not and still do not understand the ending. However, I totally love the way Asuka fought her last battle. She fought very hard, a very good fight. She is a very strong character, unlike any other mecha heroins I've seen. She quickly became my favourtie anime girl character. Hence, although the series never ranked anywhere close to my top 5 favourites, it is nevertheless one of the most outstanding. I think part of the problem for me was that I disliked the artwork of Shinji. It was very brave that they designed the hero to be so plain and simple. His personality lacks charisma or at least, I'm not impressed by him. Wink

After reading everyone's post and then pondering my own Eva experience. I must say that Evangelion is much like those old "Choose your own adventure" books I used to read in elementary school.

You either understand it and love it or it confused the hell out of ya and you hated it.

Its like marmite then; you either love it or hate it. Very Happy

Personally half the fun i got out of evangelion in the beggining was to do with the fact i didn't have a clue what was going on. I did at one stage think to my self ' Maybe i should watch Pokemon Instead as this is clearly out of my depth', I wouldnt have to watch Pikachu naked in a bath with his wrists cut and thenget impaled in the head by the lance of longinus ...... but then stopped my self when i realised that that was probably, in the case of Pikachu, exactly what i wanted to see.
That interesting bit of information aside, I think, like the poster below has said, every one gets something different out of evangelion and has a different 'adventure' or way of explaining things. [/u]

This debate has been around for a long time,love it or hate it,it's one of the titles that the mainstream (Japan 94 and later the U.S.98) latched on to at the time.I enjoyed NGE when it was new.I'm not disappointed by it now a days.I relate this "love/hate" debate,the same way certain people still prattle on about FF7.I believe it is just because it was their first anime introduction,and their feelings still,to this day,linger for more,or want a better ending Very Happy

The merchandise sold like crazy.The anime,the manga(I had a few of the shonen ace,multi colored bricks),the games (about 38 games,not including the doujin games(for GBC,Sega Saturn,PSX,N64,Wonder Swan,Dreamcast,PS2,DS,and the PSP.) The how to illustration books,doujinshi,T-shirts,posters,wall scrolls,trading cards,pencils,keychains,action figures,PVC (especially ecchi or ero)anything spouting the EVA name,and obviously would not be nearly as popular if lonely otaku didn't swallow up everything that has to do with the 14 year old's:Rei and Asuka. Laughing

Pervs love those tight plug suits,what are you gonna do.

There are many titles that begin really well and end like crap.Like the producers think of an good idea but couldn't think of an end to save their life.I agree that,that sucks.

Also remember when the big box set was expensive?(not that long ago really,and before the platinum version) It was usually sitting right next to the equally expensive Trigun box set.You know the one."I'll get it when the price drops"one.

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