Forum - View topicThe X Button - Might Be Wrong
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whiskeyii
 Posts: 2250 |
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Toddlers and Tiaras isn't for the sake of titillation--or at least it's not intended to be. These outfits, however....yeah, it's just for eye candy. |
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Eldritcho
 Posts: 260 |
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Meh, i've seen worse. It's Destructoid. Also, strange how about the same number of comments are supporters calling the detractors of the changes perverts and pedophiles. But then again, it's an internet comments section, which most rational adults have learned not to take very seriously. |
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Hoppy800
 Posts: 3331 |
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Toddler's and Tiara's is for shock value only, to get women (usually older mothers) to watch, be repulsed, and complain for the profit of everyone involved with the show. |
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Fronzel
Posts: 1906 |
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Free speech doesn't stop being a good idea because it applies to things you don't like. You are not the measure of universal rights. |
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AiddonValentine
Posts: 2231 |
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MM9: Yeah, this whole thing has been a mess for awhile. Although what I find funny is that it's only now that people realize that Inafune is kinda scummy. Which is weird because during his last days at CAPCOM his attitude was insufferable.
NX: Y'know, the last time we got something Nintendo-related from the Wall Street Journal it was about a supposed Zelda live-action series. WSJ seriously needs to reevaluate its sources Fatal Frame: I can't help but agree. I SHOULD be rooting against censorship, but considering context that's incredibly difficult because A) It is not censorship due to no governmental body being involved (as well as the fact that Nintendo was the publisher and helped co-develop the game) B) the costumes' removal don't change anything about the characters, story, setting, atmosphere, etc (i.e. anything that MATTERS) and C) the costumes were in bad taste. Seriously, I do not need sexiness and creepy horror at the same time. I cannot defend those outfits. So this is a weird case where, if anything, the edits have IMPROVED the game. |
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Paiprince
 Posts: 593 |
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"I excuse one socially questionable thing over another because it fits within the cultural context of my country" This is your argument in a nutshell. Edit: After seeing the below post, yeah, it's not just "eye candy" they removed. They altered the integrity of the plot. If that ain't censorship, I don't know what is. Last edited by Paiprince on Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cecilthedarkknight_234
 Posts: 3820 Location: Louisville, KY |
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Actually that's more content was censored than just a just some unlockable costumes. NOA censored something in game that actually mattered to the overall story. Hinasaki Miu 17, is Gavure Idol who loathes herself for being in such a nasty career. The link below will just show the content that was censored, you can think it's unpleasant, creepy or even unsettling but that's why it was in the game in the first place! http://i.4cdn.org/v/1445472968455.webm |
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SahgoDN
 Posts: 86 |
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I think you hit the nail on the head. I remember back when Sonic 4 Episode 1 was released; one reviewer in particular claimed that even if the game wasn't flawed as it was, it would've never pleased the fans -- and not because of the good ol' saying that the Sonic fandom is unpleasable. But because, paraphrasedly, "they weren't looking for more of classic Sonic games, but more of those lazy summer afternoons they spent playing Sonic games; and that, no game company can give them". I'll also say that, altough that by no means excuses how disappointing Mighty9 looks, Kickstarter's model gives a certain entitlement and progressively-higher expectations to fans who gave their money. "Wait, so our gazillion dollars can only do this? This isn't what I paid for!". Again, does not excuse empty promises, does not excuse that inexcusable second Kickstarter, but I'd bet that everybody would be more forgiving of the lackluster-looking game if it wasn't crowdfunded. But speculation is just that, I guess. |
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meruru
Posts: 471 |
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Oh geeze, I find this whole censorship thing ridiculous. This is not about freedom of speech, this was a choice made by a private company. Furthermore: this kind of censorship happens literally ALL.THE.TIME. How many hundreds? thousands?of movies/TV shows/games/etc. have been changed from the original vision in order to get the lower maturity reading? Its pretty much a given in all media industries that your original vision will be criticized and changed based on that criticsm, sometimes for censorship reasons.
Maybe you have a problem with the ratings systems overall, since the ratings systems are admittedly pretty messed up, but I still think it's ridiculous to have such a reaction over the single case you happened to hear about, that frankly, doesn't have that much of an effect anyways. If we must, I'd rather complain about instances like how the American version of Disgaea 4's custom map editor was completely ruined because omg someone might make a lewd map, or some other instance where censorship indisputably ruined the product. |
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Paiprince
Posts: 593 |
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Except this was the same example of what you're complaining about: Distilling the content to make it "palatable." People really need to do more research on the games themselves before dismissing what they censor as mere fluff. |
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whiskeyii
Posts: 2250 |
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Actually, my argument is that Toddlers and Tiaras and the swimsuits in Fatal Frame serve different purposes. The swimsuit outfits in Fatal Frame are intended as fanservice; Toddlers and Tiaras, like Hoppy800 said, is just trashy TV. It's intended to shock, yes, but NOT titillate--they aren't catering to folks who want to see toddlers prancing around half-naked. If you ask folks in the pageant scene, you'll get a statement about how it's showcasing the best (most beautiful) and brightest (most talented) a particular area has to offer. It's not intended to be a Victoria's Secret lingerie show knock-off. My argument here is against intent. As for editing out the gravure thing, yes that is censorship. But I still view it as a smart business decision; Nintendo doesn't want to be associated with an industry that basically makes the female equivalent of firemen calendars using minors--an industry that actually exists and is widely accepted in Japan. Most media outlets would probably view that as child porn--I can't blame Nintendo for going "Nope, no way. Not touching that with a ten-foot pole!" Last edited by whiskeyii on Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15510 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Well although not as sexy, I do think Zelda and Samus costumes do technically count as fanservice to me. Maybe I would miss the change, but the Zero suit and Zelda's HW dress is not exactly at the bottom of the totem pole of sexy.
I actually recently played all Metroid games including Other M, and honestly despite a few narrative problems, I found Other M to actually be very fun. Also, just to throw it out there, yesterday I pre-ordered Project Zero, the special edition and thus physical game, to be released here on the 31st here in Australia. |
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Paiprince
Posts: 593 |
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You can try to weasel your way out of it, but it doesn't change the fact that the West isn't above creating depravity even if it's "intent" is to be some form of shockumentary. No, it is not smart especially when the genre itself has in the past have games featuring swimsuit costumes and/or fanservice content (RE4 and Parasite Eve come to mind.). The fanbase are at least tolerant of such content and what has been said before, the intended audience. It is the fault of the parent/minor if they buy this and then get offended while brushing off the ESRB rating. It is there for a REASON. Face it, in an era where everything imported comes with everything as is, what Nintendo is doing is prudish at best. ...Also, love how you're seemingly ignoring how the swimsuit fits withing the narrative of this game because you know, one of the characters does it as a career. Yeah, you're gonna argue back saying, "but she can still wear more clothes and still deliver the message" but it doesn't especially when the whole setting is set in Japan with Japanese characters and Japanese values and sensibilities in place. I'm guessing you're unfamiliar with Fatal Frame/Project Zero because what I'm seeing here is just typical knee-jerk reactionisms to fanservice. Last edited by Paiprince on Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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whiskeyii
Posts: 2250 |
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Right, and like I stated earlier in the thread, I think the issue is with the underage character, mostly. The 19-year-old's black outfit is in the clear because she's an adult, but it's still tonally jarring. But her status as an adult is probably why she can get away with a skintight outfit. Much like Bayonetta.
You use such deceptive language. I'm not trying to "weasel out" of anything. I thought you misunderstood the differences between Toddlers and Tiaras and the swimsuits and sought to clarify my stance, mostly because you condensed my argument incorrectly down to a mere sentence. And yes, maybe Nintendo is being prudish. That's not the point I'm arguing here. I'm arguing that Nintendo is justified in making changes for their audience, an audience that still largely views them as family-friendly, because there are some severe cultural divides between sexualizing minors in Japan and the West at large. If they want to avoid a perceived shitstorm in the making because of how Fatal Frame sexualizes minors, they can do that. And in a culture that widely does not accept sexualized minors, that is a culturally smart decision if they don't want to alienate potential customers. EDIT: I'm actually very familiar with Fatal Frame/Project Zero. My point is that not all cultural sensibilities transfer well over cultures. Nintendo felt the need to make Fatal Frame more palatable for Western audiences for some reason, and I'm betting a lot of it has to do with one of the girls being, well, a girl. A minor. Underage. Last edited by whiskeyii on Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:36 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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phia_one
Posts: 1657 Location: Pennsylvania |
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While I'm interested in playing Code:Realize because of the steampunk, I'm not a fan of the character designs. I'm not talking about the clothes, but the faces and art style. Most of them look they walked out of a Kingdom Hearts game. It's strange because I do like Kingdom Hearts, but I've never been a fan of the character designs.
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