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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15353
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:03 pm Reply with quote
Gallen:
Quote:
they have butchered now 6 anime series and have the nerve to claim that anime is a children's medium.


Anime as a whole may not be a children's medium, but the shows they licensed are targeted towards children.

Quote:
At the same time they work hard at trying to cover up as much of the Japanese culture that is reflected in these series. God forbid we allow anyone in the US to be introduced to another cultures ideas, values, and mythology.


You're confusing 4Kids with Saban. And as pointed out in another thread, a lot of those shows have more Western elements in the first place.

Quote:
Personally I am mad, actually pissed that another series I enjoyed, One Piece, which should be getting distributed by a real anime distribution company like ADV,


A company that would sit on it...

Quote:
Viz,


A company that would sell it at a crappy episode ratio and price and not even subtitle the songs.

Quote:
or even Media Blasters


MB wouldn't be a bad idea, but they couldn't afford it.

Quote:
In the end I am ready to crucify 4kids, they are a sleazy company who are only putting a bad name on anime and adding to the already in place speculations the common public have on Japanese animation, such as it being violent, pornographic, and possibly immoral,


Wow. So kids liking Pokemon didn't help change the perception that anime is just porn and snuff?

dizzy:
Quote:
3. EVERYONE BUT OTAKU'S THINKS ANIME IS F*CKING PORN! (I.E. I had a graphic novel... i think it was uh.. Trigun... because the teacher thought it was porn... no wait, it was LH...)


In defense of your teacher, you can never tell with Akamatsu...
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Tomoyo714



Joined: 23 Aug 2002
Posts: 73
Location: NY State
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:03 pm Reply with quote
GallenStorm wrote:
First off, good. I am all for wishing that pokemon never got dubbed, the main stream we have gotten are a bunch of immature fools who don't even understand true anime and refuse to try and learn. They also refuse to try and understand the Japanese culture and go around making fools of themselves and other fans at cons and in public. Also what 4kids ahs done has not helped usher in anime, it has helped make the ignorant masses of our nation further believe that Japanese animation and anything from and of Japan is crap or trash.

So anyone who could even support 4kids and what they are doing is a fool and most likely new to the whole anime fandom. That or they are dumb or totally bought out by 4kids.


Wow... Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

I am so glad I am classifided as DUMB and BOUGHT OUT.

Way to generalize there buddy! Maybe you should learn something before you start making rude comments about the people who post here.

I am NOT a new anime fan. I have been heavily into the fandom for like seven, eight years now. And without shows like Pokemon and Yu Gi Oh do you think we would see half the DVDs on the shelfs for us to buy uncut right now that we do?? Not likely. Its was these "bought out" anime's that got people's attention into what beautiful work Japanese Animation is. I have to admit Sailor Moon was my gateway anime and DiC sure as hell did a LOT worst of a job with that then 4Kids could EVER dream of doing with ANY show. Yet still it got me into the fandom and now I probably own more anime then you do.

No what 4Kids does ISN'T groundbreaking by any means, but its Saturday morning cartoons. Yes, they are anime that is being shown on Saturday morning, but truthfully I have been wholly amazed by what 4Kids has gotten away with doing on shows like Shaman King. Or like in the new Yu Gi Oh movie I can't even recall the number of times they talk about "dying" or "death" two words you wouldn't even have HEARD in cartoons when I was a small child.

Maybe you need to get off your high horse and realize anime is a BUSINESS. Yes they do things to make money, if they didn't make money they wouldn't bring anime over here for us to purchase. The shows 4Kids buys and brings over here are aimed at the same age group here as they are in Japan. So our society as a whole is more strict on what children watch here and that makes the dubbing need to be edited. Thats a complaint you should bring up with television standards and protocals, something 4Kids has no control over.

You know it ticks me off because everyone at 4kids that I have met has been outstandingly nice and they love anime. Call them what you like but they are fans too, and they are proud of what they bring here. Mostly because they are aiming there shows at small children and when they see something like Shaman King inspire a 8 year kid, well thats there target audience.

Also if you want to complain so much buy the unedited versions of Shaman King and Yu Gi Oh they are releasing. Complaining on here won't do a THING. Type until your fingers fall off if you like, but if you put money into there pockets and show them we WANT unedited anime guess what.... they will give it to us.
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A Picture of Longing



Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 43
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:15 pm Reply with quote
GallenStorm wrote:
First off, good. I am all for wishing that pokemon never got dubbed, the main stream we have gotten are a bunch of immature fools who don't even understand true anime and refuse to try and learn. They also refuse to try and understand the Japanese culture and go around making fools of themselves and other fans at cons and in public. Also what 4kids ahs done has not helped usher in anime, it has helped make the ignorant masses of our nation further believe that Japanese animation and anything from and of Japan is crap or trash.

So anyone who could even support 4kids and what they are doing is a fool and most likely new to the whole anime fandom. That or they are dumb or totally bought out by 4kids.


Or, if you lack the brainpower to read Tomoyo714's post above, here's the abbreviated sentiment:

What the bloody hell is wrong with you?
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Joe Mello



Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 2267
Location: Online Terminal
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:47 pm Reply with quote
And once again, a thread has turned into a shouting match between the ignorant and the learned.

I've read in either this post or another that Eric Stuart is back *shudder* any signs that Dan Green is putting his mouth into this, too?
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Shiki MSHTS



Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 738
Location: NoVA
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:10 pm Reply with quote
Tenchi wrote:
Shiki MSHTS wrote:
Good gravy. Poor F-Zero. It's getting slaughtered in the polls. =/

Am I the only person in existance who likes that series? =/


Not the only person, but one of the few. Most reviews I've seen of F-Zero have given it either an "F" or a "Zero".

Not that I'm saying you shouldn't like it. I just thought that line up in the shower and couldn't resist using it.


...

You make me laugh, and cry at the same time. ;_;
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GallenStorm



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 11
Location: Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:27 pm Reply with quote
nice real nice, this is my proof, are you fans or what. "Don't pass judgment of 4kids", um hello they have screwed up at least 4 shows prior to the new set, I think their chances are done with, Judgment has been passed. They don't care, we got that, but to call yourself a fan and to go out and just let this happen, shame. Fans should be angry and demand at least a uncut version from these companies. If it went for us, they would never have seen this market that they now are trying to sell to children.

Yet I do agree Adult Swim and Toonami have done their part to help reveres the effects of 4kids, Foxbox, and WB Kids. Yet don't forget Tech TV who have been doing an awesome job as well. But still I feel the true Otaku is being ignored, specially in the case of One Piece and shows like it.

Second, the irony is that I assume, which may make an ass out of me, that many of you are 2 or 3 year fan. (NOTE: If I am wrong and you are fans of close to 12 or more years or have grown up among this stuff since you were a baby, I apologies for being rude.) Now I myself, have been around the stuff for 12 years, plus have an interest in the filed, i.e. I want to be a manga artist and I am studying the filed along side theater, but aside form that Pokemon would never have come if their wasn't already people like you or me already buying the early stuff like Ranma 1/2, Battle Angle, BGC original, or a few 100 other titles prior to Pokemon’s début in the states, both licensed and/ or fansubed. Oh my god I buy Taiwanese fan subs, cause our own damn country can't release a show fast enough as some of you have stated, and I agree, ADV and Viz are morons in that department, or because people like 4Kids tie up the copyrights so the older fans who have been dedicated to this art form cant get a uncut version of the shows. I mean how longs has it been till they finally could release the original Macross, Southern Cross, and Megalopidia (sp?) with out getting sued by Harmony Gold?

Third, I seem to have proven to myself a point, no one cares, you rather mouth off some ones else opinions, a newbie, and tell them their a retard for having opinions. For venting their emotions about the situation. Rather then look at the words spoken, think and maturely discuses why I have these reasons, instead of pulling out what may not sound right or take things out of contexts and use them against me to try and discredit what I have said. I did not call anyone here a moron, idiot, or retard directly. Anyone who put them selves in that position did it to them selves, I just stated my opinions. Yes I hate 4Kids and am discussed, yet amused, by the people who still rally around them and call themselves anime fans. No I am not getting them confused with Saban. Actually it is ironic that they seems to deal with this medium, anime, the same way.

What is more ironic is that many of people here are justifying to themselves that it is ok to butcher a series like One Piece, to make it more American, when as someone here stated, "many of these shows already are pretty American as they are.”

So I ask you this then, why the hell do we Americanize these shows, when the plots, characters, and values are no different from our own here in the USA or western world?

As for the Love Hina dude, ummmm, Bath house manga, which is soft fan services to a degree, in school. You got guts man, I admire that, but I think Trigun would have been the better choice or Evangelion, you could always say to the teacher, “I am studying here in this comic the meaning of human existences and how we affect one another in this world, while a God we put our faith in seems to turn a blind eye and allow both man and other images of man to destroy one another in hopes to purify this dieing corrupt world of ours. But still I think it was cool that a teacher would flip on Love Hina, if they only knew the story.
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GallenStorm



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 11
Location: Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:43 pm Reply with quote
My, My Tomoyo714 7 or 8 years. Very nice. I do agree with you here.

Quote:
Also if you want to complain so much buy the unedited versions of Shaman King and Yu Gi Oh they are releasing. Complaining on here won't do a THING. Type until your fingers fall off if you like, but if you put money into there pockets and show them we WANT unedited anime guess what.... they will give it to us.


Yes, putting money in their pocket’s will work, and I am happy to see that some one has heard the new line of complaints. Maybe One piece will be next to get an uncut début. My god if all goes well now, what will I have to do, guess I will move on and finally finish writing that manga I been working on for 4 years. But to get them to do what you want, you must complain, petition, and be heard. They cant read minds, they only read ratings. And if your fingers fall off in the fight, then use your toung and nose to type.

Oh and anime DVDs were coming with out Pokemon and the mainstream, we old otaku insured that. Got to love Ranma and BGC original. You just wouldn’t have had the huge selection you have now. Which is nice and also irritating, allot of over saturation I feel.

Oh yhea, I didn't call you a moron, but if you feel you fit into the category, go right ahead, I wont stop you. Oh and I did read through most of yoru post, hmm brain power,.................. I like ramen! Anime smile Specially the real instant stuff from Japan!! But I have as of yet to try the real, real home made stuff.
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Animefan16



Joined: 24 Apr 2004
Posts: 1014
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:02 am Reply with quote
GallenStorm wrote:

So I ask you this then, why the hell do we Americanize these shows, when the plots, characters, and values are no different from our own here in the USA or western world?



So that American audiences can relate to it. You can't expect an imported show to become popular without people relating to it. When they replaced a reference to a Jpop band in FLCL with the Red Hot CHili Peppers, I liked it. I don't know any Jpop bands but I do know who the RHCP are. But I do agree that Americanization can't work most of the time. Viz was smart not to Americanize Inuyasha because it was mainly about Japanese feudal times. The name changes in Case Closed didn't destroy the dub. Americans can still understand the story and they're more familiar with the names.
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GallenStorm



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 11
Location: Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:11 am Reply with quote
That and Inu-Yasha is a special case. Takahashi, who I always spell wrong, is a real SOB for a more colorful references, when it comes to her work. Yes she controls the anime, but she can, she's Japans only millionaire comic artist right now, all self made, got to admire that. She is even recognized for this by Wizard magazine.

Anyway, the deal with Inu-Yasha is that it could be edited to fit US sensor standards but that was it, should anything else be done to it that would change anything of the show. Takahashi would, sue Viz and Cartoon Network, strip them of their copyrights to all her works-Lum, Ranma, everything-, and not allow the US to ever touch her stuff again. She is a manga artist and this is her legacy. No one will mess it up. Got to respect an artist like that.
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iamthatdizzy



Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 46
Location: Anime-Heaven
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:55 am Reply with quote
Quote:
As for the Love Hina dude, ummmm, Bath house manga, which is soft fan services to a degree, in school. You got guts man, I admire that, but I think Trigun would have been the better choice or Evangelion, you could always say to the teacher, “I am studying here in this comic the meaning of human existences and how we affect one another in this world, while a God we put our faith in seems to turn a blind eye and allow both man and other images of man to destroy one another in hopes to purify this dieing corrupt world of ours. But still I think it was cool that a teacher would flip on Love Hina, if they only knew the story.


oh, no, Ms. Eufurth knew what it was about... although she is a school teacher, she know anime too well... she is pretty much one of us! She gave it back after embarassing me saying i like romantic GNs, which i do! but in a school setting, that really demolished my status as force to be rekoned with! then again, there were alot more firls who started to talk to me then to... i think i balanced out!

As for the, Judgement has already passed BS, it is true, they have screwed up too many series and must be stopped, hopefully, the yu-gi-oh movie will send 'em bankrubt and then will have to forefit the OP and TMM licence![/quote]
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Nagisa
Moderator


Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 6128
Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:18 am Reply with quote
GallenStorm wrote:
nice real nice, this is my proof, are you fans or what. "Don't pass judgment of 4kids", um hello they have screwed up at least 4 shows prior to the new set, I think their chances are done with, Judgment has been passed. They don't care, we got that, but to call yourself a fan and to go out and just let this happen, shame. Fans should be angry and demand at least a uncut version from these companies. If it went for us, they would never have seen this market that they now are trying to sell to children.


No offense, but I'm gonna wager you've been living under a rock lately. 4Kids are releasing uncut, subtitled versions of some of their properties through FUNimation (so as not to tarnish their "child-friendly" reputation by releasing something only slightly less mild than their usual fare). They're starting with Shaman King & Yu-Gi-Oh!, and are apparently willing to release more titles uncut if these two sell well enough.

GallenStorm wrote:
Yet don't forget Tech TV who have been doing an awesome job as well.


Not really. TechTV did a fair enough job at first, but a few months before and ever since the G4 merger, they basically condemned anime to a living death. Zero advertisement, 3:00am timeslots, and the only real way to find out when a show's gonna re-enter rotation is to check the website & newsletter, both of which are usually last-minute or absolutely late in telling you anything.

They've given up on the anime, and it wouldn't surprise me to see it go the way of The Thunderbirds.

GallenStorm wrote:
But still I feel the true Otaku is being ignored, specially in the case of One Piece and shows like it.


See the above reference to uncut DVD releases. They are listening, and will throw fans a bone if they're willing to support the endeavour.

GallenStorm wrote:
Second, the irony is that I assume, which may make an ass out of me, that many of you are 2 or 3 year fan.


Nope, the irony was that you yourself were (still kinda are) acting like the very "immature fool" you claim others to be.

The bad grammar and "entitlement kiddie" attitude don't help.

GallenStorm wrote:
(NOTE: If I am wrong and you are fans of close to 12 or more years or have grown up among this stuff since you were a baby, I apologies for being rude.)


Thank you, now moving on...

GallenStorm wrote:
Now I myself, have been around the stuff for 12 years, plus have an interest in the filed, i.e. I want to be a manga artist and I am studying the filed along side theater,


My suggestion: stick to theatre, as breaking into the Japanese comic or animation industries is excrutiatingly difficult for foreigners. But then, if you've really been around anime for over a decade, I guess you already know that. Wink

GallenStorm wrote:
but aside form that Pokemon would never have come if their wasn't already people like you or me already buying the early stuff like Ranma 1/2, Battle Angle, BGC original, or a few 100 other titles prior to Pokemon’s début in the states, both licensed and/ or fansubed.


The sentence (when not separated by quotes) really made no sense. Because you're studying theatre, we owe Pokemon to Ranma's success?

Please work on your grammar, 'kay?

GallenStorm wrote:
Oh my god I buy Taiwanese fan subs, cause our own damn country can't release a show fast enough as some of you have stated, and I agree, ADV and Viz are morons in that department,


I'd rather ADV license twenty titles and prioritise the release of ten (with the ten their sitting on usually being short OVAs nobody really gives a damn about anyway), than have them try to rush out all twenty and get burned both in money and overexertion. Same with Viz, though their catalogue doesn't seem as expansive (or full of...worthless crap OVAs that are being sat on).

GallenStorm wrote:
or because people like 4Kids tie up the copyrights so the older fans who have been dedicated to this art form can't get a uncut version of the shows.


To be honest, most of the titles 4Kids nabs are commercial whore kiddie fests that really have little to no artistic merit. It's really hard to say - without keeling over in sidesplitting laughter - that Yu-Gi-Oh! is an artistic masterpiece on par with Jin-Roh or Millnnium Actress. It's not, and neither are Pokemon, Sonic X, Shaman King, etc.

GallenStorm wrote:
I mean how longs has it been till they finally could release the original Macross, Southern Cross, and Megalopidia (sp?) with out getting sued by Harmony Gold?


It's Mospaeda (beginning to doubt your twelve-year credentials, I'm sorry), and I think this was one of those special cases where genuine legal SNAFU ensued. It wasn't just a company holding off one little niche series to go ahead and crank out something else with more buzz behind it.

GallenStorm wrote:
Third, I seem to have proven to myself a point, no one cares, you rather mouth off some ones else opinions, a newbie, and tell them their a retard for having opinions. For venting their emotions about the situation. Rather then look at the words spoken, think and maturely discuses why I have these reasons, instead of pulling out what may not sound right or take things out of contexts and use them against me to try and discredit what I have said.


I...think you're trying to ask us to argue counterpoints in a civil manner. I would like to ask you to do the same, rather than scream about how 4Kids are the Devil's Keeper and how you're somehow entitled to the "XXX-rated version" of Yu-Gi-Oh! where Kaiba butchers a sex orgy of Dark Magicians with a chainsaw. Been there, heard that, picked up the brochure.

Granted you at least seem to be trying to argue the point a little better, but I'm still only hearing "They rape our women & chuildren and we don't get no uncut Pokeman! Let's burn their houses down and stuff 'because they're bad bad people" with very little genuine substance behind the arguments except to hide behind the "it's my opinion" excuse whenever someone calls you on anything.

GallenStorm wrote:
Yes I hate 4Kids and am discussed, yet amused, by the people who still rally around them and call themselves anime fans.


Personally I don't agree with their practices, but I can see where they're coming from, and all they're getting are shows aimed at a young demographic anyway. They're also redeeming themselves by offering uncut DVD releases if fans are willing to work with them on it.

Does this mean I'm somehow a disgrace to anime fandom? Any moreso than the person who comes on a forum and cries bloody murder because the industry doesn't always go their way?

GallenStorm wrote:
or Evangelion, you could always say to the teacher, “I am studying here in this comic the meaning of human existences and how we affect one another in this world, while a God we put our faith in seems to turn a blind eye and allow both man and other images of man to destroy one another in hopes to purify this dieing corrupt world of ours.


While that may be a theme one can easily derive from the series, I highly doubt reading a comic book counts as studying philosophy. 'Sides, the Eva manga is much more a telling of the "giant robot beat'em up" portion of the series than the psychological probing seen in the anime.
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Izlude



Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 323
Location: Wherever The Wind Takes Me
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:04 am Reply with quote
I think people are sterotyping 4Kids too much here on what exactly "butchering" is. Yugioh is the only show 4Kids butchered really, but that is perhaps the fault that the 1st series wasnt brought over, which was probably beyond 4Kids control (Toei LLC owns the 1st series If I recall, and we all know how stubborn Toei is). All 4Kids have to work with is the 2nd series, and I'm surprized they got as far as they did, despite having so many holes in the story which were in the 1st series, otherwise, Yugioh is going full steam ahead now.

4Kids other shows like Shaman King, Ultimate Muscle, Kirby and even Sonic X are all decent in their own right, the plot/stories arent hacked up, and the editing isnt too bad (hell at least episodes arent spliced together), Shaman King in particular is quite good. I think the thing is, its just getting used to their voice actors and the occasional name change.

Believe it or not 4Kids do care for the fans, because the fans sure as hell ACT LIKE kids! Look at the majority of shallow minded rabid raging anime fans out their, most childish creature that exists. You wanna act like kids? No problem! 4Kids will provide for you kiddies with their childrens menu of Japan's most popaular childrens animation! Your obviously not mature enough to handle a kids show completely unedited! So there! You rabid anti-4Kids people are just forcefeeding yourselves your own crap because your pretty much giving 4Kids the idea of the maturity level of the majority of anime fans out there (Proof? Go through Adult Swim's board, lots of kiddies out there, although most others around there have liberties to make fun of them ^^)

I think One Piece will no doubt be a sure hit, hell, with Shonen Jump's name slapped on it, why wouldnt it be? Although, the real cake is going to be Naruto, which I am sure 4Kids will go for. Comon, they are loaded, no doubt in my mind that is next on their list, unless Funimation pulls something out of their sleeve.

But ya know what? I'd love to see Media Blasters get Naruto, they haven't gotten a longer series since Rurouni Kenshin.
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Akuma-chan



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:30 am Reply with quote
You know, in my case, atleast, it was 4Kids that got me into anime. After I realised that the stuff wasn't just cartoons, I started looking more into it, and became a fan.

If it wasn't for dubs of things, I probably wouldn't know of half of the animes I like, either.

There are a few anime, granted, that I got into before they were brought over here (some still have yet to be brought over here). But, I've been a fan for only four years, so I think personally it's only people's opinions.

I, in all honesty, don't believe how long you've been in the fandom matters. As long as you understand what anime is, and have an open mind, there's nothing wrong.

Some people who've been into anime for years, decades even, can be even as obnoxious as people who don't know everything about anime. They could waltz around with a superior attitude because they were around back when there wasn't anything out, and call themselves -true- otaku.

Also, I'd like to add that I don't usually see many anime-illiterate people at Cons. Usually the people I see know about a lot of obscure series.

Anyway, moving on, most of the dubbing companies are slacking, lately. Viz, however, is thankfully making its manga cheaper, though, Shonen Jump's translations tend to be on the poor side. ADV's trying to spit out dubs as fast as possible, working on quantity over quality. This has slightly irked me, because they snag a lot of the titles I like a lot. Though, other companies seem to be using the quantity over quality approach too--and Gravitation's dub wasn't anything I'd enjoy rewatching.

FUNimation, really, isn't that bad. Fruits Basket was an excellent dub--though, I have to say some other of their dubs aren't grand.

In the manga business, I'm personally pleased with Del Ray. For a couple dollars more, they give you translation notes, explanations, colour pages (in the case of Tsubasa, the colour pages included weren't even in the tankouban), and a great overall translation. The waiting time's a lot more between, but, heck, the product's really, really good.

Overall, it depends on a company's motives, and their VA pool sometimes as well. You need to realize that sometimes a voice is bad due to the VA. Some VA's out there truely appreciate their fans--Scott McNeil and Crispin Freeman come to mind--and work their hardest to produce something good. But when it comes down to it, they're the ones who bring the characters to life, and you can't have a good dub without good voices.

Besides, if you dislike a dub, that's why uncut, bilingual, English and Japanese DVDs are invented.

As a last resort, there's always a reason why the Mute button was made.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15353
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:00 am Reply with quote
One of the reasons I hated Pokemon was I was concerned it would encourage a wave of knock-offs which would leave little room for more original content, but 4Kids has shown it can cultivate a diverse animated programming block that puts both Toonami and Kids WB to shame. As I said a while ago, if you want anime to reach more older audiences, then you have to trust 4Kids with One Piece, because Adult Swim can only reach so many people. Or if you want to go back to the days when cartoons were just infomercials for cheaply produced toys or
when they were created to meet FCC requirements for educational content, go ahead. American animation studios just don't want to provide content anymore, unless it's in cg, and there's a fast-food tie-in. Why don't you complain about them, when you b*tch about the bottom dollar being more important than art?
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GallenStorm



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 11
Location: Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:56 am Reply with quote
Quote:
American animation studios just don't want to provide content anymore, unless it's in cg, and there's a fast-food tie-in. Why don't you complain about them, when you b*tch about the bottom dollar being more important than art?


I do, but then I gave up, cause I realized that as long as Mr. Isnore of Disney was in the head seat of America's biggest animation company, no one else would dare try to produce something better then them. Which wouldn't be hard mind you, last original TV show they did, in my opinion, was Gargoyles. But what do I know I've been living under a rock.

Besides like you said, the mentality in our nation is, cartoons are for kids, and to even bother to put money into cell animation is almost worthless unless we get something out of it besides good ratings. My proof, just look at what our country is pumping out now, which doesn't have Disney's logo on it.


Quote:
My suggestion: stick to theatre, as breaking into the Japanese comic or animation industries is excrutiatingly difficult for foreigners. But then, if you've really been around anime for over a decade, I guess you already know that


It is? I wasn't aware of this..... sorry I was being rude there. I am well aware of the fact that the industry is hard to break into. I am also aware that people like Fred Galiger of Megatokyo have broken into it. Not saying I will be as successful, but writing/drawing manga has been my true ambition before I ever even thought about theater. I could care less if I fail. I want to pursue a dream, and to not would be a crime. besides if everyone just gave up because the odds seems to be against them, before they even tried. Then we all would be still living in caves. Not to far from me living under a rock.

Quote:
I'd rather ADV license twenty titles and prioritise the release of ten (with the ten their sitting on usually being short OVAs nobody really gives a damn about anyway), than have them try to rush out all twenty and get burned both in money and overexertion. Same with Viz, though their catalogue doesn't seem as expansive (or full of...worthless crap OVAs that are being sat on).


never said they were full of worthless crap, just said they were fools on how they have released stuff. 3 eps. per DVD for 30 dollars, I can get a fansub of the same quality, with 30 eps. and with out the bad dub, for the same amount. That's all I was meaning behind them being morons. Personally I am with you, I rather they buy up 20 series and sit on half, while they produced the other half for US release.

Also I think the reason their quality has gone down in the last few years is due to trying to keep up with the newbies, i.e. Funimation, 4kids, and Media Blasters.

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To be honest, most of the titles 4Kids nabs are commercial whore kiddie fests that really have little to no artistic merit. It's really hard to say - without keeling over in sidesplitting laughter - that Yu-Gi-Oh! is an artistic masterpiece on par with Jin-Roh or Millnnium Actress. It's not, and neither are Pokemon, Sonic X, Shaman King, etc.


Compared to the recent US made “kiddy fest“, anything that doesn't look like Ed, Edd and Eddy or Moucha Lucha is a work of art. Oh and Ranma 1/2 was also in the category of “kiddy fest” in Japan, but due to the sexual innuendos, it isn't considered that here.

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It's Mospaeda (beginning to doubt your twelve-year credentials, I'm sorry), and I think this was one of those special cases where genuine legal SNAFU ensued. It wasn't just a company holding off one little niche series to go ahead and crank out something else with more buzz behind it.


I misspell the name of a series I can’t even pronounce, but I do remember as season 3 of Robotech, and you doubt that I’ve been into anime for 12 years. Fine go ahead and doubt, I know I’ve been there, don't need to prove it to you.
I...think you're trying to ask us to argue counterpoints in a civil manner. I would like to ask you to do the same, rather than scream about how 4Kids are the Devil's Keeper and how you're somehow entitled to the "XXX-rated version" of Yu-Gi-Oh! where Kaiba butchers a sex orgy of Dark Magicians with a chainsaw. Been there, heard that, picked up the brochure.

Granted you at least seem to be trying to argue the point a little better, but I'm still only hearing "They rape our women & children and we don't get no uncut Pokeman! Let's burn their houses down and stuff 'because they're bad bad people" with very little genuine substance behind the arguments except to hide behind the "it's my opinion" excuse whenever someone calls you on anything.[/quote]

that's Pokemon, don't tell me I have bad grammar when you cant even spell Pokemon. But heck I can’t spell Mosepeada.

Anyway,

I don't know who you subscribe to, but I like to join. Kaiba with a chainsaw, why does that so fit him.

"Yugi I have given up on telling you how great my cards and I are, while being defeated by you. So I have decided to let this chain saw do the talking, mwahhahaha." (insert chain saw noise here)

And

" Yugi I summon my virgin school girl and polymerization her with raping tentacle monster to create the La Blue Girl!"

Arguing the point, at this stage I am just bitching and having fun pissing some people off. But your right the points I have made, are what I feel and I just don't understand why it takes putting a gun to an Otakus head to get them to do anything these days.

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While that may be a theme one can easily derive from the series, I highly doubt reading a comic book counts as studying philosophy. 'Sides, the Eva manga is much more a telling of the "giant robot beat'em up" portion of the series than the psychological probing seen in the anime.


what you htink I am nuts to try and argue this point, that's how real flame wars start.

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I think One Piece will no doubt be a sure hit, hell, with Shonen Jump's name slapped on it, why wouldnt it be? Although, the real cake is going to be Naruto, which I am sure 4Kids will go for. Comon, they are loaded, no doubt in my mind that is next on their list, unless Funimation pulls something out of their sleeve.


Your probably right. But on Naruto I have heard rumor that Funimation is working to get a hold of Naruto, since it does fit their DB, DBZ, Yu Yu Hakusho line up. I just don't want to see 4kids ruin the music in Naruto and change everyone's names. this is the one show I really would have problems with the name changing.
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