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Shelf Life - Hikari Un-Go


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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3820
Location: Louisville, KY
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:41 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
erinfinnegan wrote:

Megiddo wrote:
Also, funny enough. I don't even own the Teatrino OVA. I didn't like the Teatrino OVA. But I'm not going to sit back and let someone call it wank material when it is not wank material.

If I take it back, will you get off my case about this?

Yep. If you rescind that comment and edit it out of that particular Shelf Life article, replacing it with whatever you see fit or just eliminating that sentence altogether, then I will get off your case about that. Because practically everything else is opinion in that review, and I have been on the internet long enough to know that opinion is not something that should ever be argued.

Also, just in case you were unclear, the illustrator for the Akikan light novels has her own ties to porn. She was an artist for Navel and was involved with drawing many erotic scenes featuring lolita characters.

Actually, if you go and research the majority of the ecchi series, you'll find that a large amount of people are or were involved with some sort of erotic content. Which is why the realization that GSG had characters that were from a very early erotic prototype doesn't really phase me. The only difference is that the creator saw how he could make the story work without any sort of eroticism whatsoever.


For some reason I am not really surprised a female artist is doing loli characters. Yui haga is the other famous artist off the top of my head that did disgaea and other fan art before making lotte's toy...sigh..
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:01 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:

Yep. If you rescind that comment and edit it out of that particular Shelf Life article, replacing it with whatever you see fit or just eliminating that sentence altogether, then I will get off your case about that. Because practically everything else is opinion in that review, and I have been on the internet long enough to know that opinion is not something that should ever be argued.

Also, just in case you were unclear, the illustrator for the Akikan light novels has her own ties to porn. She was an artist for Navel and was involved with drawing many erotic scenes featuring lolita characters.

Actually, if you go and research the majority of the ecchi series, you'll find that a large amount of people are or were involved with some sort of erotic content. Which is why the realization that GSG had characters that were from a very early erotic prototype doesn't really phase me. The only difference is that the creator saw how he could make the story work without any sort of eroticism whatsoever.

It may even further shock you to know that famed director Makoto Shinkai directed the opening animation for that very same visual novel that the GSG creator supplied the character designs for.


Thing is, that isn't her call to make. It's mine.

And I'm not changing it, for this very simple reason: in her estimation, it came off as wank material. Plenty of other people had that impression too; Erin isn't the only person I've seen make that call. You may disagree. In your own review, you may spend a paragraph explaining how "but you see this isn't wank material because...". But it isn't your review. It's hers. And that's how she described it.

So if you want to hound someone about it, hound me. I'm the person making the choice to keep it the way it is.

I have absolutely no intention of letting you harass my writers until they come to me asking me to change their article so it fits your personal take on the material.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8360
Location: IL
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:11 pm Reply with quote
It's not a "personal take" Zac.

If you want to see something resembling porn, look at the Akikan OVA. It features things such as a herd of cats licking two naked girls all over because they have seafood spread all over them causing the girls to orgasm. There is nothing even close to that in the Teatrino OVA.

Anyway, if that's your decision as editor then I see no reason to fight it. Some organizations care more about controlling content than about supplying factual information I suppose. I can't fault you for sticking up for your writer either. I'd do the same thing.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:23 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
So if you want to hound someone about it, hound me. I'm the person making the choice to keep it the way it is.


What makes you think that us hounding you - a person who in the past has proven very trigger happy with the ban button, and who sticks by their writers no matter what the writer has said or done - is going to accomplish anything?

If you're really giving us license to hound you without penalty then I'd be one of the first people to take up your offer, as I still haven't forgotten about Death Note or Fate/Zero (amongst others). But if you're just saying that and your offer is hollow or fake, then I'd be stupid to take it up.

I'm actually genuinely curious to know which one it is.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:29 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:

What makes you think that us hounding you - a person who in the past has proven very trigger happy with the ban button, and who sticks by their writers no matter what the writer has said or done - is going to accomplish anything?


Trigger happy with the ban button, eh? You realize your behavior was brought to me by other people who then suggested you be banned, right? It wasn't just me saying "this guy's annoying, out he goes"? Maybe you didn't know that.

Quote:

If you're really giving us license to hound you without penalty then I'd be one of the first people to take up your offer, as I still haven't forgotten about Death Note or Fate/Zero (amongst others). But if you're just saying that and your offer is hollow or fake, then I'd be stupid to take it up.

I'm actually genuinely curious to know which one it is.


When did I say "without penalty"? I don't recall saying that.

I like the inherent melodrama in saying "I still haven't forgotten about this!" as though I ran over your dog rather than published an opinion you didn't agree with.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:38 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Trigger happy with the ban button, eh? You realize your behavior was brought to me by other people who then suggested you be banned, right? It wasn't just me saying "this guy's annoying, out he goes"? Maybe you didn't know that.


I notice you still didn't answer my question. Nice deflection there, that was.

Eh, from what I remember, I was calling out Carl Kimlinger for some review (may indeed have been Death Note) and you banned me for a couple of months then and there. Then with my Moderation, I did exactly as Keonyn said and made a thread about how I didn't like how the Moderators were moderating, and got immediately placed under Moderation for that.

I don't know what goes on in the Staff Forums or what PMs you get, all I know is what it looks like to me.

Zac wrote:
When did I say "without penalty"? I don't recall saying that.


Oh come now, it was implicitly stated. Of course, I had the sense to ask if you were being straight with us; turns out you weren't. No surprise there but I do admit to feeling a little disappointed; hounding you would have been fun.

Zac wrote:
I like the inherent melodrama in saying "I still haven't forgotten about this!" as though I ran over your dog rather than published an opinion you didn't agree with.


Comparing a squished canine to a review on a website; stay classy Zac.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:57 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:


Oh come now, it was implicitly stated. Of course, I had the sense to ask if you were being straight with us; turns out you weren't. No surprise there but I do admit to feeling a little disappointed; hounding you would have been fun.


I get bored easily and likely would've banned you once you started getting really insufferable about it.

Hey, maybe I am trigger-happy after all!

dtm42 wrote:

Comparing a squished canine to a review on a website; stay classy Zac.


I can't help it; it is my natural state.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23854
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:09 pm Reply with quote
I am living proof - as a poster who has never been banned at ANN - that this joint has no trigger-happy ban-hammers. If it did, I would have been PNG long ago. From what I can see (and this isn't based just on my example) you really have to press somebody's absolute last nerve to get the ban treatment.
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erinfinnegan
ANN Columnist


Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 598
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:47 pm Reply with quote
Alright, I'm done replying to you after this.

Megiddo wrote:
Because practically everything else is opinion in that review, and I have been on the internet long enough to know that opinion is not something that should ever be argued.

"Wank material" is an opinion and not a fact.

Megiddo wrote:
Also, just in case you were unclear, the illustrator for the Akikan light novels has her own ties to porn.

I'd have to read the Akikan novels to know if they were porn. But nevermind that, because there's only one severely underaged character in Akikan. Just one pre-pubescent. In Gunslinger Girls, they're all pre-pubescent.

It's a standard trope of ero-com shows and harem shows to throw in one elementary school kid. That really bothers me. I'm offended almost every single time "that character" shows up on screen. Akikan impressed me by not treating Budokan like "that character" in most other shows. I'm not totally un-offended by her, but I'm way less offended because Akikan being a comedy, I could read Budokan as more of a parody of "that kind of character".

I watched Puni Puni Poemy back in the day, and thought it was hilarious, despite a bunch of horrible potentially offensive jokes about underaged characters. Comedy is often parodying and poking fun at sensitive topics, (think South Park). That's much less offensive to me than "being" the sensitive topic and being dead serious about it.

If you want to continue this conversation, I'll be glad to talk to you about it in real life if you see me at a convention.
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Sailor S





PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:00 pm Reply with quote
erinfinnegan wrote:

I'd have to read the Akikan novels to know if they were porn. But nevermind that, because there's only one severely underaged character in Akikan. Just one pre-pubescent. In Gunslinger Girls, they're all pre-pubescent.


No, they're not. Even if we ignore the cyborgs that came later on in the manga and weren't shown in the anime, Triela is pubescent, as I recall at one point in the anime she complained about having menstrual cramps, to which Henrietta mentioned how she herself was unable to have them since her uterus had been removed. I'm pretty sure that most of the girls are in the 12-14 range, which is not pre-pubescent. Underage ≠ pre-pubescent.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:41 pm Reply with quote
Some girls in Gunslinger Girls do look in the twelve to fourteen range, but others look ten. Just saying.



(Haven't see the show, just going off a Google Image Search.)
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3820
Location: Louisville, KY
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:11 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Some girls in Gunslinger Girls do look in the twelve to fourteen range, but others look ten. Just saying.



(Haven't see the show, just going off a Google Image Search.)


I haven't myself as well but they don't loli as in kodomo no jikan or other shows just flat chested girls such as louise, taiga or suzu. It's more focused on body waist of hips, legs, a**, thighs that define loli for me and none really fit that bill again like you i haven't seen the show so i can't tell.

To erin actually I am happy that some has some stand on their moral bounds. if you didn't like that's fine I can't say it's good or bad based on my own moral judgment. I do have some they have just decreased over the years but that's not the subject at hand.
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Nayu



Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 676
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:11 am Reply with quote
Seriously, every bloody week this column has the very same response in this forum. I don't know if you're blind or what, Zac, but maybe you should consider that Erin's opinions on anime are at odds with the vast majority of your readership and perhaps it is time to consider a change?

I'm not even going to touch the topic at hand since I believe that it has been adequately shown that Erin was in the wrong again. I'm sorry but when you review anime, you need to be accurate about the subject matter. Erin's repeatedly made terrible mistakes when reviewing anime, such as completely misinterpreting Chobits.

But hey, its your reputation that hangs in the balance.
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ConanSan



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1818
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:24 am Reply with quote
BattleHork wrote:
Akikan is to soft drinks what The Humanoid was to coffee.

No, it was just crap.

Glad someone liked it but seriously, you would not know the people behind it did Bacano.
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Pippin4242



Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 111
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:27 am Reply with quote
Zac, I completely understand and respect your urge to protect your writers, but you still haven't answered my question: have you watched the Akikan! OVA?

It was THAT OFFENSIVE. I am seriously offended by the review failing to touch upon any of its awfulness. While the main show is problematic, it's fine to have a differing opinion, but the OVA was extremely upsetting. I've watched a lot of bad or offensive or porny anime, but I've never seen rape played for laughs in that way before - and to the guy who said rape could be funny, you might like to know it was a man who was left stuck in a tree to be raped, by a horrible gay stereotype who made me and many of the other queer people watching feel extremely uncomfortable.
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