Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: DARLING in the FRANXX
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jenthehen
 Posts: 835 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio |
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I'm assuming he means that since we are meant to see the 9's as antagonistic and therefore potentially "bad guys" - it's disconcerting that they are the only time we've seen women in the driver's seat. |
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AksaraKishou
Posts: 1411 Location: End of the World |
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https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/8cs6uv/studio_trigger_here_were_back_with_hiromi/?st=jgcsp0kn&sh=7bf32213
Well, gonna leave this here for people interested... |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15503 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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If it is confusing whether the papa society or Klaxosaurs are meant to be right. The answer is probably neither, just as the opinion, it has to be a mix of two.
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WatcherZer
Posts: 277 |
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My take on the series so far is Papa and his followers became obsessed with immortality and began researching bio-mechanoid bodies to host their minds and free them from their frail bodies usually living purely in cyberspace (the original Klaxosaur genetic specimen may have been a species discovered to live in the Earths core). They stopped caring about having children or experiencing the real world, only in continuing their own existence.
Something went wrong and the bio-mechanoid bodies they created rebelled and started living and breeding for themselves wiping out the rest of the world that didn't move in to Papas plantations. The children are both their means of fighting the bio-mechanoids but also their continuing research in to perfecting the immortal host bodies without their base reproductive instincts taking over, the rating is how close they are physically to being the perfect host (000 being the target perfect being). They inject normal humans with the Klaxosaur blood and are searching for the perfect genetic makeup of a pure human Klaxosaur body (002 and the 9's being the closest) |
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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Which says a lot more about some viewers than about the series itself. Sadly we live in an era where we have stopped listening, we no longer care what other people are trying to say, all we want to know if they are "pro" or "anti" so that we can rally against or for them. Darling in the FRANXX is forcing us to watch the whole thing before we can pass judgement, even if some people don't stop saying "are we there yet?". It also speaks about the knee jerk reaction many fans have to try to destroy any series they dislike while it is still being broadcast, but this is too entertaining to attack without an easy to understand thematic banner. |
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BodaciousSpacePirate
 Subscriber Posts: 3018 |
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I mean, Pretty Little Liars was considered pretty coherent and entertaining by its target demographic, and kept people guessing so much that it was touted as the "most tweeted about tv show" for several years... but it also didn't respect its audience's intelligence in the slightest, and resolved one of its multi-year storylines with the explanation that the villain always seemed to be in the right place at the right time because she
and that
upon which the heroines basically reacted with a, "oh, okay doctor, I guess that makes sense, I mean you are a doctor after all", before moving on to the next unresolved plotline. I guess if we only care about what's entertaining and coherent, then sure, shows like Darling and Pretty Little Liars are works of genius, but I think that's setting the bar pretty low. I wonder whether this is just a consequence of the fact that - for the past few years - most of any given season's big plot-heavy shows have been adapted from manga and light novels. Recent anime have rarely allowed for any serious community speculation about "what happens next", at least compared to their western nerd-culture counterparts like Star Wars, the Marvel cinematic universe, etc. When something like Darling comes around, entices viewers with the possibility of strong thematic elements, and then promises that everything will make sense if you stick around until the end... well, it's hard not to be reminded of stuff like this (NSFW). |
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Cptn_Taylor
Posts: 925 |
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Of course we know thematically where it is all going. Humanity has reached an evolutionary dead end. You have the adults that indulge in a life (eternal ?) of drugs and wither away. We have the kids that are created artificially, grow up and die (either by sacrificing themselves on the battlefield for the glory of APE) or dying for having reached a limit age. There is no natural procreation and society is segregated into 2 castes : eternal adults who can download their conciousness into other bodies and "kids" On the other side we have the klaxasaurs who are not human, but are quite angry at what the adults up there have done to the planet. So war ensues between the 2 species. The survival of Humanity will rest on the liberated kids (once the revolution is carried through) that will live in harmony with nature hence defusing the whole klaxasaurian threat. They will live, grow and die. And because of Kokoro's fascination with natural birth the circles closes itself. Kids will grow, marry, live their lives and die but not before a new generation is born. The cycle of life and death. DITF is a ferocious criticism on our consumerist society (not that different from another film T-H-X 1138) and on the way we're killing the planet (ie the biosphere). Survival can only come when we live in harmony with nature. By this point in the show the themes are literally IN YOUR FACE. |
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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I think you are getting ahead of yourself by putting those two in the same category. If by the end of the season Darling in the FRANXX resorts to an asspull do by all means. But I am confident they wont due to Trigger's track record. On the other hand, if some people are mad at the ending not because it is bad, but because they wanted something else, that is quite different (rise your hands all you Sakura and Naruto shippers). |
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BodaciousSpacePirate
Subscriber Posts: 3018 |
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I hope so. It's never going to end up being my favorite show or anything (and truthfully, everything these past two seasons has been having to fight an uphill battle against my unbridled enthusiasm for Toji no Miko) but it's definitely been operating at somewhat of an unfair disadvantage amongst 90s-era mecha fans due to its similarities to franchises for which they have strong fondness and nostalgia. Trigger shows aren't exactly the hardest shows for people to find an excuse to dislike, and I think that maybe if Darling had come out of the gate without wearing its influences on its sleeves, people would have given it more time to stand on its own two feet. That didn't happen, though, and the echo chamber of "this show isn't going to pay off in the end" has sort of always been there, growing and growing, laying a foundation for people to latch onto after something like Episode 14 inevitably happened. |
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青白
Posts: 184 |
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I don’t understand why it is such a necessity to analyze show thematically. This show is about entertainment, and it is doing that well, and the reviewer has admitted to being taken into the entertaining drama and fights so much that it doesn’t matter whether the themes are messy. There are so many more sober series out there that don’t even get taken so seriously as this review is. So why is DITF being analyzed so critically? Also am I the only one who feels the reviewer is stretching his hypothesis about the themes of this show?
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Chrono1000
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BodaciousSpacePirate
Subscriber Posts: 3018 |
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Three reasons: (a) it's a show associated with Trigger; (b) it front-loaded a whole bunch of imagery that attracts the sort of people who like to analyze shows thematically; and (c) it's a mecha show marketed towards adults. Trigger has a history of making shows that "have things to say", and although they're certainly capable of producing a show about drama and fights and nothing else, the default assumption is that anything they put their name on these days is going to have a deeper message about society, gender, clothing, the anime industry, or whatever. So, going into the show, people were wondering whether or not this was going to be a show with a message. Then, by the end of the first episode, we met two characters who seemed to be trapped in a young adult fiction scenario - one of whom was a red oni archetype character with literal oni horns whose name can also be read as "oni" - who gave two equally metaphor-laden monologues about flightless birds. This piqued the interests of Kunihiko Ikuhara, NisiOisin, Hideaki Anno, and Gen Urobuchi fans, all of whom put down their copies of Dead Dead Demon's DeDeDeDeDestruction for long enough to take a look at what Trigger and A-1 Pictures were up to now. Finally, as anyone around for the ten years following Evangelion could probably tell you, adult-oriented mecha anime has gained a reputation for encouraging critical analysis. Brain Powerd, Nadesico, and RahXephon are the standouts, but just about anything with a robot that isn't named "Gundam" is trying to sell its audience on some kind of message, even if said message is "giant robot shows shouldn't try to sell their audiences on some kind of message". EDIT: cursed typos! Last edited by BodaciousSpacePirate on Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:00 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Mojave
 Posts: 178 |
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If a show repeatedly dwells on certain themes, they're fair game for analysis. It makes the viewing experience deeper and more meaningful for many viewers to do so. And DITF really pounds home its themes, so its themes absolutely should be analyzed critically. I don't agree with all the conclusions of James' analysis, but he's absolutely doing what he should be by using critical analysis skills in reviewing the show. If a series specifically highlights core themes, the reviewer should be analyzing them. And I personally appreciate the way James has done so, since I also feel like the show is quite entertaining to watch but that it has really muddled its central metaphor about relationships, to the point where the confusion that stems from that does lessen my enjoyment of the series a little bit. The themes being messy does matter for me, James, and many other viewers, as it doesn't destroy our enjoyment of the series, but it does lessen it somewhat. |
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Kiddo626
Posts: 62 |
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I can’t speak for anyone else, but to me, I feel the show brings the scrutiny and criticism upon itself. I take the show seriously because there are times when the show takes itself seriously. Very seriously. The way I see it, the show’s trying to have it both ways: It wants to be this high-octane, action spectacle piece, yet it also wants to be this thoughtful meditation on human sexuality and relationships. And if it wants to explore those themes, then I personally think it’s fair game to analyze the execution, whether it was successful or not. EDIT: Damn, I was ninja’d twice. 
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jdnation
Posts: 2010 |
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I personally hope it sticks to the 'hetero-normative' whatchamacallit. The 'inclusivity' appeal just seems to be a demand for forcing equalism between things that essentially are not equal and can never be; all just to assuage the new climate of social experimentation that the current stage of culture is obsessed with, imagining it can reinvent the wheel. Something the show thankfully highlights that people like to pretend isn't significant. Though I guess I also feel that Franxx won't be that insightful as a criticism of the 'non-hetero-normative' thing either. It'll just straddle that line with the main emphasis turning out to be more geared towards the main conflict of different beings/species getting along and cooperating just like men and women. And that cutting ourselves off from one another just produces sterility. To that end Hiro and Zero Two's coming together is akin to a royal marriage between two opposing forces to achieve a political peace. At this point in the show we are actually guessing as to who these two players are. I get the feeling that humanity is simply caught in the middle between two non-human forces. Just as there is conflict and misunderstanding and exploitation between friends and lovers, at the macro-level it is also species-driven and interplanetary. The fact that Zero Two eats stamens, is similar how in some species, the female breeds with the male, then kills him off, like a praying mantis for example. It seems that Franxx is just trying to illustrate the male/female dynamic of several species and types. When looking at the masks of the adults, they are also animalistic. It seems some kind of cross-genetic thing is going on and the klaxosaurs are likely a result of that. There's obviously a lot more going on here that isn't just simply boiled down to "women need to be reigned in by the man" that some people are taking from this show. Especially given the obvious dominant roles that Zero Two and Ichigo, who is the actual squad leader, portray outside of the cockpit. And as the Jian bird metaphor explained provides, the main message is that if you want to get somewhere, you can't just do it on your own. Different and diverse people working together accomplish things. And sometimes that means a dominant and a submissive aspect cooperating together to produce something. And that's likely going to be the overall message. The sex/relationship thing by itself will not be the focus. That just happens to be one theme that lends the show its flavour for window dressing and drama. And also because "anime" and the creators and marketers know what will get you talking. Anyone expecting this show to eventually carry some liberal-sex-gender-distinction-erasing message will likely just be disappointed. It'll likely be saying "boys and girls should get along" (to be highly reductive), just as children and adults are necessary parts of life, alongside humans and other species. As the Jian thing implied, it's gonna be that duality that gets things going. And that by itself can be profound enough for Franxx to tackle, which we'll see how well it does by the end. Frankly I don't mind being stringed along. Of course the longer we are expected to wait, then the bigger the finale and revelations need to be to satisfy that craving. In that sense, Franxx's storytelling and holding back, is like one long sense of foreplay, and taking it's time until the climax. So we'll see if it gets more exciting as it goes.
Given the horned guys are more powerful and agile as with Zero Two, it makes sense that they be the ones to 'provide its abilities', whereas the other is the main pilot essentially using the body. But this seems contradictory when we consider that the males are piloting the female bodies as given men on average have stronger physiques, would it not make sense for them to be the body? This is one thing that is not explained, but given we've seen the difference with the Nines, I expect some more info will emerge later on. Maybe it's just that different plantations are obviously playing around and doing different things with their Franxx squads? The Franxx designs for Hiro's squad are obviously female, whereas the others seem more non-descript mecha-like. This is almost like it puts the female aspect as the protector of the children and the nest, or the eggs as found in the animal kingdom. So it seems that maybe Dr. Franxx wanted this special particular squad for their plantation with girls being the main body, but they for some reason require the opposite sex to offer additional control. Likely as a kind of balance between two perspectives and roles. Though the actual mechanism requiring this is as yet unknown. But it is certainly psychological and emotional things that power the Franxx alongside a sense of compatibility between the pilots both physical and relationship-wise. A deep connection needs to be established between the pilots, and while the sexual methaphor is the most basic and surface one, the connection is better as the relationship develops and thus the Franxx is more powerful. And this is probably at its zenith of power the more different the two pilots are physically, thus making the connection between a male-female pair, or better yet a human and non-human male/female pair, ideally suited to bridge the divide. So the motivations are stronger and the gulf of potential greater.
I don't get that at all. Ichigo several times tried to confront Zero Two on what she was doing to Hiro only to be rebuffed and told Zero Two would do to Hiro as she pleased even consume him. The other squad members also felt the same way and thus were never manipulated by Ichigo. They saw for themselves Zero Two's behaviour, and know of her history with stamens, one experiencing it directly for himself. Zero Two was banished due to their own actions and circumstances far outside Ichigo's control by the adults who sought to separate them. Ichigo even LED Zero Two to Hiro's room so they could work things out when Zero Two went berserk. Naturally they're all afraid of her for their own sakes. Ichigo had NOTHING to do with it. Ichigo saw this as destructive and therefore out of consideration for Hiro tries to get him to feel better about Zero Two leaving by admitting her feelings to him and therefore promising to fulfil what she believes are his sole expectations for wanting Zero Two around - a) To pilot a Franxx, which is all Hiro wanted to do. b) Because she believes Hiro was seeking a romantic relationship and to explore these feelings. Remember also that all of them are not familiar with romance, emotions or human relationships like normal people are because they've been raised in isolation away from adults, and the adults themselves are also uninterested in each other as we've seen. Ichigo has NO KNOWLEDGE of Hiro and Zero Two's past. This was not a factor. What we as the audience know and what Ichigo as a character in the show know are two different and separate things. She also did not know her partner was watching, and in any case both of them are already clear on their feelings for each other and her feelings for Hiro. He left when he saw them because obviously he did not want to interrupt her confession. He cares for Hiro's happiness just as much as Ichigo's. Overall these partnerships were also forced together like contractual marriages. It's not like they mutually came together as partners, they were just assigned the roles. Only when necessity demanded it did they begin trying to switch things up and take their own initiative as they grew. That Ichigo cares for Hiro more than other stamens she doesn't know is completely normal. It's not as though she has the power to change things that the adults and higher ups decide, and according to them, the Stamens are expendable soldiers at war with a powerful enemy, which is par for the course of a conflict. They can die out there. That's a fact they are familiar with. But in Hiro's case, he is potentially being killed by his own partner who has made it clear to Ichigo that she'll do what she wants with Hiro and doesn't communicate with Ichigo as a consequence of her exploited and abused past. Right and wrong have nothing to do with it. So I don't know where people are getting these weird ideas that Ichigo must live up to some idealistic image in the face of her circumstances. Hiro likely didn't reveal the nature of their returning memories about each other, because they are aware of what occurred to them, and likely don't want to risk being brainwashed again or expose his team-mates to a similar consequence. In his own mind he also wanted to clarify Zero Two's intentions. This is because, like Ichigo, Hiro himself was suspicious as to whether Zero Two was exposing him to danger deliberately and whether or not she herself fully possessed her memories while doing that to him. If even Hiro felt that doubt, then naturally Ichigo would too, because obviously she cares. |
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