×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
NEWS: Funimation Sues Animeland Staff Over Counterfeit Items


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
getchman
He started it



Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 9122
Location: Bedford, NH
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:08 pm Reply with quote
Nocturne123 wrote:
Im very curious why a good bit of my posts are missing from this thread. I don't think I was out of line, especially since others posts here were on the same wavelength.


you started excessively quoting, which is against rule #6 and something Tony K really hates
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
beelzebozo



Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 308
Location: Aurora, Colorado
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:12 pm Reply with quote
yuna49 wrote:
beelzebozo wrote:
Oh, and you don't seem to understand: Think Art owns Animeland. When you make a check out to Animeland, you have to make it out to Think Art Media.

And yet Think Art Media only had gross revenues of $98,000 in 2011 according to the article? That seems absurdly small if they own the convention and have other businesses like the stickers as well.


Never said they were "good" at business. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Advent_Nebula



Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 932
Location: Colorado
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:18 pm Reply with quote
Shaterri wrote:
Kudos to Funimation for this - speaking as someone who tries to 'play by the rules' and purchase only authentic items, anything that scrubs a little more of the knockoff stuff out of the market is welcomed.

I won't name names, but we have a local (Seattle-area) mall chain that's got a ton of questionable merchandise too, and as much as I'd love to see a good anime retailer, I always cringe a little inside whenever I pass by their stores. Hopefully publication of this case will get more people to clean up their acts.


I know Animaniacs, they use to be here in Denver.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime
Advent_Nebula



Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 932
Location: Colorado
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:31 pm Reply with quote
SilverSilence wrote:
This isn't new...truth is I don't have much pity for Timmons, he made a bad move and also considering I'm going to continue to go to Animeland wasabi, because it isn't as crowded and I enjoyed it. The problem I have is that Timmons is being sued, and there is areason why he was divorced in the first place.

I am not going to NDK nor will I ever return due to some bad memories and not really wanting to deal with crowds due to anxiety issues. So don't go jumping on me about why I'm going to continue supporting Animeland Wasabi, it is more that the convention itself has potiental and can get better.

I don't chose to believe that we will lose this convention.


I co-run the Denver Anime Meetup Group, and Timmons attended the January dinner. One of the things we told him was to get rid of the bootleg merch, and I remember other members of the group laying into him the complaints form the last several years. Looks like he did not take our advice. Also form what I can tell as someone close to finishing his MBA that Timmons has little to know business sense.

While it dose have potential, I don't see it as an Anime con, but rather as a cosplay and costuming con.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime
Pocket_Squirrel



Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Posts: 1
Location: 12203 E Iliff Ave Unit S Aurora
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:07 pm Reply with quote
I run a store in Aurora that deals with animation and bootlegging infuriates me. I actually went through and recovered my long dormant account to post this. haha. Anyhow, it's a serious problem. Reading through the paperwork, it was just a matter of time.

As for Animeland Wasabi? This year was a bit rough, but that convention has always been a bit rough. They have had security problems, hotel complaints, drugs in the rave, and other things. It's just that they need to standardize their policies, streamline a lot of things, and generally enforce the rules they set to begin with.

Also, there is a need to not start things. If I may quote Gravity Falls: "Do what women do: Hate each other in secret!"

I don't understand why conventions feel they have to try and compete for visitors when they aren't even in the same month. Our only honest competition (no bootlegs) is Gimmie Anime, but at the end of the day, we're not competing for a shrinking market. We are part of a market that we are both trying to grow. Honesty and integrity increases that market. People who honestly love anime should want to support the people who bring it out for them legitimately. Lawsuits like this are a good way to shut down predators. People who sell bootlegs are predators. They are taking advantage of people's trust and charging them excessive prices for stuff they burned themselves or got from dishonest wholesalers for pennies and dimes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ohoni



Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 3421
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:15 pm Reply with quote
Legally they don't seem to have a leg to stand on, but morally I would only oppose merchandise created to duplicate existing merch. If they are creating original and otherwise unavailable items that merely use existing designs then I condemn groups like Funimation for suing, rather than the people who are merely providing the products the customers want to buy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KabaKabaFruit



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 1875
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:48 pm Reply with quote
cutiebunny wrote:
You only have to visit Toei Studios in Japan to understand how much Toei loathes the Sailor Moon property. Yes, it's a money maker for them. Yes, they're going to revive it solely for the money. But whereas Dragonball, the PreCure franchise and One Piece have their merchandise prominently displayed and cataloged, Sailor Moon is given one small, dinky glass shelf. Under a very sunny window. When I visited the museum in 2008, the Sailor Moon items Toei had on hand had been badly damaged. I don't know if anything has changed since then, but, I was practically in tears after going there. Not only was Sailor Moon simply tossed aside, the way they treat their artwork there was horrible. There's a room where they have discarded cel animation equipment with a huge bunch of Dr. Slump cels laying in a damp room. And then there's the decorations that the studio made to highlight prior productions - Made from cut outs from production cels. Try rationalizing this to someone who not only collects cels, but spends money trying to preserve them.

If Toei really loathes Sailor Moon that much, then there are some things here that I just don't get:

-The show ran for 200 episodes, had 3 movies and several other specials, musicals and even a live action show. Ratings were reportedly very good and further bolstered Toei's reputation as a quality animation producer for Japanese audiences. If anything the show should be considered a crown jewel of Toei's achievements next to other notable series like One Piece, Dragon Ball and Fist of the North Star.

-The show is well loved the world over. Hell, it is arguably the show that spawned the anime fandom in Canada!

-The series had figures, video games and clothing lines. Quite a big deal with a franchise like this.

Honestly, the only logical reason that Toei would hate Sailor Moon now was due to their shaky relationship with Naoko Takeuchi. But shouldn't that have been resolved by now?

Furthermore, if money is the only thing that matters to Toei now and they are making a killing with Dragon Ball and One Piece, then why revive Sailor Moon at all for financial gain if they hate it so much? Wouldn't they rather just focus on Dragon Ball, One Piece, and to a lesser extent, Toriko?
getchman wrote:
you started excessively quoting, which is against rule #6 and something Tony K really hates

I'm sorry but there is no logical reason for rule #6 to really exist. As someone who has frequented forums for years, excessive quoting is pretty much a non-issue when you consider that your average person can easily ignore the quotes and focus only on the official post. I find it unfortunate that Tony K would be legitimately irked by this when you consider that there are far worse issues on forums to be concerned about. Maybe Tony should re-evaluate his priorities.


Last edited by KabaKabaFruit on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:56 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Shaterri



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 173
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:34 pm Reply with quote
Ohoni wrote:
Legally they don't seem to have a leg to stand on, but morally I would only oppose merchandise created to duplicate existing merch. If they are creating original and otherwise unavailable items that merely use existing designs then I condemn groups like Funimation for suing, rather than the people who are merely providing the products the customers want to buy.


At the risk of opening a box of worms: why? Customers don't have a 'right', legal moral or otherwise, to whatever product they want featuring their favorite characters - instead, it's the creator (or more broadly, owner, if the creator chooses to sign their rights away, but let's not get into that kettle of fish) who would seem to have a clear right to determine how their characters are used for commercial purposes. Should Funi and Toei be all right with, e.g., someone else selling Dragon Ball Z condoms because 'that's what the people want'?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
addiemon



Joined: 06 Mar 2013
Posts: 93
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:33 am Reply with quote
Ohoni wrote:
Legally they don't seem to have a leg to stand on, but morally I would only oppose merchandise created to duplicate existing merch. If they are creating original and otherwise unavailable items that merely use existing designs then I condemn groups like Funimation for suing, rather than the people who are merely providing the products the customers want to buy.


Would it change your stance if you knew that in the U.S., trademarks-- unlike copyrights --must be defended in order to be maintained? The strength of a trademark in court relies on its being distinct in its market; if a company allows that trademark to be used commonly/generically then that trademark can become "generic" and legally usable by others.

The most common example of this is with names-- Xerox, Aspirin, Band-Aid are classic examples of trademarks that became so diluted by common use that they are now generic trademarks and people can use them to refer to a general product, even when not made by the companies that registered those trademarks.

Both Google and Adobe have been dealing with this issue; both companies dissuage the (increasingly common) use of their product as a verb: "By googling this," "I photoshopped that pic," etc. Adobe actually has a whole page devoted to this as part of their defense.

NOTE: I'm not a lawyer, and this is all based on my layperson's understanding of the law from college classes. Hopefully the next Law of Anime columns will spotlight trademark and some of how it is different from copyright.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SilverSilence



Joined: 05 Mar 2013
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:19 am Reply with quote
You know I was thinking about this as I was reading, I am not going to be above saying that bootlegging isn't going to happen, it will no matter what you think about it. I was accused of it, when I refused to buy a jacket and just do something on my own with some patches that I purchased.

Truth is I would rather we had two anime conventions in Colorado that are successful instead of just one...because more options is better than just one...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Advent_Nebula



Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 932
Location: Colorado
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:46 pm Reply with quote
We could have more then one, if the right leadership took and did it. It is not easy though, beelzebozo can tell you that, as he was a founding member of NDK before he left to open his own anime store.

Last edited by Advent_Nebula on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime
Suena



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 289
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:43 pm Reply with quote
Hopefully this move will scare the pants off other cons that condone bootleg merch.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SilverSilence



Joined: 05 Mar 2013
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:50 am Reply with quote
Advent_Nebula wrote:
We could have more then one, if the right leadership took and did it. It is not easy though, beelzebozo can tell you that, as he was a founding member of NDK before he left to open his own anime store.


I am hopeful that Andrea is a good leader for Animeland Wasabi. I'm hopeful for that...Andrea has taken Animeland over and has pushed out Think Art Media and has come up with a better options. She has no tolerance for ANY bootlegging at the conventions she runs.

Last few conventions Timmons has been asked to leave, which he had to, most staff at the convention hate the guy. I know for a fact that if given the option and asked to join staff for Animeland, I would do it in a heart beat and help them clean everything up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RoseTech



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 50
Location: Toronto, Canada
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:49 am Reply with quote
potatochobit wrote:
a serious serious threat to the industry is all the fake nendoroids. it's getting to the point where the fake ones debut on the market almost on the same day as the original.

This is true. Fake figures are the worst. I see a guy selling official authentic nendoroids and other figures, while there's another guy on the other side selling fake ones (you can tell by the poor printing of the packaging (compression artifacts, discoloration, etc.)(you can see this on fake CDs/DVDs too) and the figure's material looks more plasticky and reflective than rubbery (it's supposed to have a very "soft" look to it)). Makes me really feel bad for the authentic figure guy. Even though I can get them off of Amazon.co.jp via my friend for less, I end up getting one out of pity. Well, that and because「Azunyan right in my face」.

But as far as this case and article is concerned, it was inevitable.

Shaterri wrote:

At the risk of opening a box of worms: why? Customers don't have a 'right', legal moral or otherwise, to whatever product they want featuring their favorite characters - instead, it's the creator who would seem to have a clear right to determine how their characters are used for commercial purposes. Should Funi and Toei be all right with, e.g., someone else selling Dragon Ball Z condoms because 'that's what the people want'?

Most excellent response to the "if it doesn't exist already, what's wrong with [mass-produced] unlicensed merchandise". I concur. It just hurts the anime industry which we love so much. And as standing as one person, it's a matter of principle.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2046
Location: Austin, TX
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:30 pm Reply with quote
addiemon wrote:
Would it change your stance if you knew that in the U.S., trademarks-- unlike copyrights --must be defended in order to be maintained? The strength of a trademark in court relies on its being distinct in its market; if a company allows that trademark to be used commonly/generically then that trademark can become "generic" and legally usable by others.

I have nothing against FUNimation and don't have a problem with their suit, but your trademark sidebar is totally IRRELEVANT. Trademarks ARE a totally different ball of wax and have nothing to do with THIS particular case/discussion. To quote the article:
Quote:
North American anime distributor Funimation filed a lawsuit against Miller Isaiah Timmons and 10 unnamed "John Does" associated with his businesses on February 28 for alleged copyright infringement.

edit:
Green Mustard Ent. is apparently arguing about trademark, but that's related to the con name and has absolutely nothing to do with the merchandise discussion. Random anime merchandise is not "trademarked", heck except possibly in rare circumstances, full anime titles/characters/etc. aren't "trademarked".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 5 of 6

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group