Forum - View topicEditorial: An Open Letter to the Industry
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missing_soul
Posts: 44 |
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I've got the feeling the industry has a problem with students with no money. I tried to underline the fact they can't pay with the use of the word "kid". As opposed to grown ups with a wallet full of dollars. But I suppose that could hurt the feelings of anyone who is a grown up and has not enough dollars as defined by the industry. So I apologize. |
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missing_soul
Posts: 44 |
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An example from the industry's point of view (of course you shouldn't use the "d" word anywhere the fans could read it):
Streaming 26 episodes of CuteFaces and 26 episodes of BloodLust will put a fan in debt with two times 100 points in 2007 when he/she is 18 years old. Buying a boxset of CuteFaces for 100 dollars in 2016 (an imaginary number) will cover these 200 points. Buying one DVD of GrownUpStuff in 2016 for 25 dollars will cover 50 points. So she/he still have 150 points to buy off. Buying a box set of SeriousKillingMachine for 160 dollars in 2016 will cover the 200 points. OR if the fan is not interested in anime anymore, the industry federation managing his account will kindly convert it into 0,5 dollar per point debt after he turned 26 (provided he finished his studies). That's equivalent of 100 dollars for two series downloaded for free today. But of course the fan will probably prefer to have a boxset of his old stuff to just pay it off. This system works only if the industry has only one content distributor and one account system and it is personalized (everyone has an account and a (encryption) key and gets a yearly report on the anime he/she "owns". It puts the industry in direct contact with the fans, let the industry market their products at the same place. Not to speak of lowering the cost of maintaining a website per company. Also if you want really raise interest amongst the fans you should provide content on a Portal, as described before (I am not personally interested in Portals, but information I don't have to search for ages or get lost in, thank you). |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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I did read your previous post, which I agreed with for the most part. My only issue with it is that you think fansubbing has prevented people from buying which isn't really accurate. Fansubbing enabled people to watch what they otherwise could not have, but didn't prevent purchases unless people chose not to make them. They could have, as many do, bought anyway.
Many of them chose not to as the current dvd-purchase-only situation doesn't benefit them, and others are probably just not willing to pay at all. Those who did not buy DVDs that they did not want I don't think were solely to blame (the companies don't have other options), and if everyone who didn't want DVDs bought them anyway they'd be to blame for the system never changing. Sadly, change doesn't usually come when things are going perfectly. |
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ParaParaJMo
 Posts: 333 Location: Gilbert, AZ, USA |
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Well, I am not going to read the entire thread, but maybe this has been addressed, maybe it hasn't.
Does anyone remember when anime 2 episode dub VHS videos were $35? Or when 2 episode subtitled VHS were double the price? Now the average price of 3-6 episode DVDs that are dual lingual and have special features range from $20-$35!!! I remember 12 years ago, when I was an unemployed 11 year old sixth grade, I worked my butt off to save $300. And for what!!?? To buy the first season of Ranma 1/2 on VHS in English!! And you want to know how much I paid for the entire series on DVD!!?? I paid $150!!! I think it's the biggest load of $#*+ when people say anime is soooo expensive. Do I think it's an excuse to exclusively watch fansubs? Of course not. I'm not patient when it comes to waiting sometimes and there was no way in hell I was going to wait until past the year 2000 to see some of my other current favorites like Slam Dunk, Saint Seiya, and Yuu Yuu Hakusho. I still have my old fansub tapes of them, but hell, I of course have been getting the DVDs as well. As for fansubs, ADV has admitted to being benifitted by it. Especially it helped them decide to license Azumanga Daioh. |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16941 |
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I just think it's funny you'd mention sneaking into a movie without a ticket since I would wager that person's excuse would be the same as the fansubber. It's just too expensive. The bottom line is many people are just cheap bastards. You can try and dress it up and say something else but the real deal is they're just cheap. |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Dargonxtc
 Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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I don't know, when I think cheap, I think of someone who wants to pay as little as possible for something.
The article isn't saying focus should be shifted to that side of the market, but rather to the side that is willing to pay nothing. I have been jumping back and forth on this issue, personally. But I believe Moomintroll (forgive me if this isn't what you said) said it best when he said the best these companies can look forward to is to not lose as much money. As it stands now, every show would need to be a grand slam success, just to break even or maybe make a little money. But the sum-total of all shows would still be the same, loss. If truly catering to the whim of people who are willing to pay nothing is the wave of the future, then I think companies need to find other ways besides advertising to do it, while at the same time ensuring the end customer doesn't pay anything except the right to be online. Impossible you say, well I am not willing to go that far, but I certainaly don't have any idea what that would be. That or they could cut production by 75%, and lay off their staff by half. I wonder what kind of forum outrage that would cause? 
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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and isn't that often the concept behind stealing-getting something by means other than what the law-abiding public does by other means?
No, legalese. My teen has a cell phone which she pays for but one cannot enter into a contract until one is 18 (in CA at least) so the cell phone is in my name. One usually has to be legal age to be legally bound by a contract. (Never watched People's Court?) |
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chicogrande
 Posts: 190 Location: Huntsville, Alabama |
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Kill the internet fansub.
The animation industry in Japan, imo, must embrace the digital universe. They should already have websites available for fans to go to and purchase downlodable episodes or complete series. In any case, I agree with the basic point of this editorial that the industry is allowing itself to be ripped-off. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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No, the concept behind stealing is someone no longer has possession of something that they otherwise could have used or sold to someone else. This doesn't pass that criteria.
No doubt, but even broadcast TV passes that criteria (insofar as you are referring to the individual, and if you are just talking about paid in general I'll note very few people actually have ratings boxes in their house). There isn't anything wrong with getting something free in and of itself. It's when you don't spend money towards things based on what you value that problems occur. Even if things are offered for free legally I think it's not right to constantly take advantage and never give anything back when and if you are able to do so. If you can help support through donation or by improvements you should do so. |
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putrocca
 Posts: 9 |
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It may be impossible to fully gauge the effects of fansubs, they certainly harm in some ways and help in others, but I agree with the assessment that fansubs aren't going to go anywhere, and that what the industry needs to do is make itself competitive with fansubs by adjusting the way it releases things. DVDs have better image quality than fansubs, helpful extras, are more reliable long-term (DVDs don't vanish when your hard drive dies) and look good on a shelf. Unfortunately, for some fans, those merits can't make up for the DVDs coming out many months or longer after fansubs hit the market, having a delay of one or more months between individual DVD releases, and costing $20 or more for one DVD, which may have as few as 3 episodes on it. Now, anime is expensive to produce and to license. No one will deny that anime companies have few options of how to market series if they want to make back the money they spent acquiring them, but variations in release format could still be the beginning of an answer.
One interesting case in point is the upcoming Rightstuf release of the Emma anime. Rightstuf has skipped individual DVD releases entirely and gone straight to releasing boxsets, two of them, one for season one and one for season two, which both come out on the same day in January, for $50 each, $37 if you pre-order. Fast, efficient and affordable, there has to be a catch, right? There is: the boxes are SUBTITLED ONLY, with no English dub. As the original editorial points out, many anime companies barely make back their initial licensing costs let alone the cost of dubbing - dubbing anime is very expensive and slow. While many fans may prefer watching their favorite shows in English, the fact is that the production cost of most US releases would drop significantly, allowing for faster and more affordable releases, if they had no dub. Currently the big bucks in DVD sales are still in the individual dvds, not boxsets, at least when a series first comes out, but without a dub to pay for those initial bucks don't have to be quite so big. A sub-only box is also much faster to produce, allowing the release to come much more quickly after the series hits the air in Japan and, hopefully, before the fansub release has had time to make the series "old news." Certainly it's true that a lot of US DVD sales, possibly the majority, still go to people who prefer dubs. However, if fansubs are being suggested as the source of the industry's current crisis, obviously it's not dub watchers who are being siphoned off by the fansubs. I believe fansub watchers are much more likely to buy a cheap sub-only boxset than expensive dubbed single disks. The sub-only market may be smaller than the dub market, but if a larger portion of them buy the product because of the price reduction, and the product is cheaper for the company to produce, it may still lead to larger profits than the current system. "May" is the operative word here, of course. I don't know how well the Rightstuf release of Emma will do. I don't know whether the elimination of dubbing costs would be enough to make up for the smaller audience that sub-only boxes get. The important thing is that Rightstuf, at least, is responding to the current crisis by trying something different with their marketing. Rightstuf is listening to the fans, and being realistic about the impossibility of eliminating fansubs, and instead trying to produce a product nice enough for fans to want to pay for despite the existence of fansubs. The VIZ uncut Naruto boxsets are another example of such an attempt, a thin, affordable boxset nice enough for many people to buy even if they have fansubs already (though the sales would be higher, I'm sure, if the boxes came out faster, without the delay caused by waiting for the individual DVDs). Here's hoping other anime companies will follow suit, if not by copying Emma's sub-only format, then at least by trying other experiments to see if changing the format of releases can make them competitive with fansubs. Emma box 1: http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmgr/HAJQTOnXjyljxI4mJc/browse/item/75106/4/0/0 |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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windstorm
 Posts: 2 Location: Ontario, Canada |
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I really liked this article and agree largely with what Justin had to say. It is also a very good thing to have someone elses opinion besides the corporate statement on fansubbing.
I believe people watch and make fansubs for all of the reasons he mentioned. I've noticed this same trend the reason fansubs exist is mostly due to the preferences of the consumers for a faster (and in some cases, cheaper) way to view anime and the fansubbers who simply want others to be able to enjoy it. The technology now exists so that the distribution can happen very quickly and fansubs/dowloads have existed for so long that there is virtually no way people will give up on that option. A key issue is that the anime industry (both in Japan and foreign distributors) has not successfully adapted to the desires of its consumers or the technology which serves as a medium to give them what they want. |
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